Do you leave your TIU/WIU powered on 24/7?

Unless things have changed a bunch, the alternator they used to generate the electric power in the Generac determines the frequency strictly by the RPM of the motor.  The frequency and voltage "adjustment" is simply adjusting the RPM of the motor using the engine governor adjustment.  Unless the motor is running at the right RPM, you will never have the proper 60hz power frequency.

I'm sure they is done simply because it's the cheapest way to do the job, not necessarily the best or most hi-tech way to do the job.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Unless things have changed a bunch, the alternator they used to generate the electric power in the Generac determines the frequency strictly by the RPM of the motor.  The frequency and voltage "adjustment" is simply adjusting the RPM of the motor using the engine governor adjustment.  Unless the motor is running at the right RPM, you will never have the proper 60hz power frequency.

I'm sure they is done simply because it's the cheapest way to do the job, not necessarily the best or most hi-tech way to do the job.

You should come work for us, I'll show you a few generators that are supposed to work exactly as you have stated above, but for some reason (internal failure) they do not. Our gensets run unattended, meaning when they fail, we are not around to see it and hence require logic safety systems that anticipate things that defy normal operating procedure.

Last summer we had a generator failure that resulted in the it being pulled and replaced. The engine is set to run at 1400 RPM, the well at 1560 and the generator at 1800. This is a monitor only station, so the safety circuit can only log the failure details and shutdown the engine. For the first 200 hours of operation the generator was outputting 485 volts at 60hz and then at hour 207 the voltage dropped off down to 478 and the Hz were down to 53 all the while the input shaft speed was still 1800 RPM. This triggered an alarm log event and an out of spec shutdown. A simple mechanical governor would ignore the real problem and just speed the engine up to reach the desired 485 volts while not realizing there is a major problem inside of the generator.

It easy say this is how it operates, but when you throw in some mechanical failure, watch the sparks fly and toss the normal operating procedure out of the window.

What did this post start out about?

@John H posted:

What did this post start out about?

sorry....

In the spirit of the post. I do not leave my my layout powered on. Everything is turned on & off with a single remote control switch device. Just seems safer and saves a little on the electric bill.

Folks- electrical safety is nothing to fiddle with. I would not trust Alexa, Google, or any other wifi device to control power to ANYTHING!

TURN IT OFF! WITH A PHYSICAL SWITCH! IT'S NOT THAT HARD.....REALLY!

As a licensed master electrician for 30+ years, I know the hazards of overloaded circuits.

Example- a 5 amp load will NEVER trip even a 15 amp circuit. However, the same 5 amps can start an electrical fire under the right circumstances.

I agree that the cheap Chinese power strips should be avoided. Look for the UL listing on all electrical devices when purchasing.

I've troubleshot many open neutrals/ grounds over my years in the business. Don't count on the electric utility to be aware of these and prevent them in the first place. I once found an open service neutral sending 2 amps onto the ground from the local Cable TV provider.

I can go on and on......

Again- KISS- turn the layout OFF!

@H1000 posted:

sorry....

In the spirit of the post. I do not leave my my layout powered on. Everything is turned on & off with a single remote control switch device. Just seems safer and saves a little on the electric bill.

Me too.

I have three distinct rooms where I have power strips with various items plugged into them.  I turn each one on sequentially and when done running turning each of them off.  If I leave them on it's a user error.

john

@jbmccormick posted:

I have three distinct rooms where I have power strips with various items plugged into them.  I turn each one on sequentially and when done running turning each of them off.  If I leave them on it's a user error.

I have this bulb that lights anytime there is power on the layout, that alerts me to turn it off if I'm leaving the room.

When I leave my train room all power plugs pulled out including and plugged in tools especially soldering iron.No electrical power in train room equals 0 chance of model railroad induced fires.100% safety always is better than 99%

Everyone has their own way of securing the power, however I don't go so far as to pull all the plugs, I still trust switches.

Small 4x8  2 loop layout works when i crawl under table and plug it in when done back under to unplug no big deal and piece of mind.

I agree the WIU is the slowest to come up. Could you leave it plugged in and on and then switch everything else on when running the trains? I figure this will likely have some affect on the handshake between the TIU and WIU???

What's the big rush?  I just switch all the power on, the WIU is up and running in a couple minutes at most.  Are you really that rushed?

I never did.

I always kill power to all things in the room.  WIU takes 2-3 minutes to come on line. However, lately its a 50/50 shot that it will start on the first try. Power light is lit but it does not cycle up.    Any Ideas?    WIU is 5+ years old and the temp in the room can be as low as 40 deg f.

@AL THE OPERATOR posted:

I always kill power to all things in the room.  WIU takes 2-3 minutes to come on line. However, lately its a 50/50 shot that it will start on the first try. Power light is lit but it does not cycle up.    Any Ideas?    WIU is 5+ years old and the temp in the room can be as low as 40 deg f.

Could be a lot of things.  I'd try putting a 25W light bulb right under it to keep it warm and then see if gets 100% startups.  If so, it's probably time to consider a replacement.

The most common failure point for solid state equipment is at the moment of power turn on. Keeping that in mind…

I have two PCs (an OGR machine and a personal machine) and a MAC (for video editing) in my home office. There are also fifteen hard drives, three printers, three Synology NAS backup drive arrays, two scanners, a 16-channel audio mixer, an audio system, and a total of seven monitors. All that stuff has been turned on and running 24/7 for YEARS. They were on for years at the OGR office in Poland, Ohio, and have now been on 24/7 here at the house in Columbus since we moved here seven years ago. I never turn them off.

I have had zero problems with any of the equipment. The two PCs were purchased in 2002 when OGR Publishing, Inc. was formed. That means they are 21 years old! I’ve replaced disc drives and added RAM over the years, but that’s it. I just replaced a 34-year old Mackie 1604 audio mixer because it had developed a 120 Hz hum due to failing filter caps. I got my money's worth out of that thing!

If I had a TIU/WIU, etc. I would leave them on 24/7, too.

Several years ago, I had an electrical anomaly at my house - don't know if it was a power surge or a nearby lightning strike.  It fried several items that were plugged in on one side of the house - TV, dishwasher, garbage disposal, and the electronics in my table saw.  The garbage disposal and table saw were switched (off at the time), but it didn't matter.

It was a PITA, and the out-of-pocket cost was not quite enough to justify an insurance claim.  Fortunately, none of the electrical components for my trains were plugged in, so there was no damage.  Given the difficulty (or impossibility) of obtaining these items, I shudder to think of trying to recover from such an event today.  As a result, I now unplug anything that isn't used regularly, especially my table saw and train equipment.     

@AL THE OPERATOR posted:

I always kill power to all things in the room.  WIU takes 2-3 minutes to come on line. However, lately its a 50/50 shot that it will start on the first try. Power light is lit but it does not cycle up.    Any Ideas?    WIU is 5+ years old and the temp in the room can be as low as 40 deg f.

That's well within operating temp. The power adaptor on my first WIU went bad, the power light would turn on but was rather dim. Luckily these things are beyond easy to replace with any 1 amp USB charger and an A to Mini-B USB cable.

I'd try a different USB power supply but make sure it has at least a 1 amp (1000mA) output rating.

@Rich Melvin posted:

The most common failure point for solid state equipment is at the moment of power turn on. Keeping that in mind…

I have two PCs (an OGR machine and a personal machine) and a MAC (for video editing) in my home office. There are also fifteen hard drives, three printers, three Synology NAS backup drive arrays, two scanners, a 16-channel audio mixer, an audio system, and a total of seven monitors. All that stuff has been turned on and running 24/7 for YEARS. They were on for years at the OGR office in Poland, Ohio, and have now been on 24/7 here at the house in Columbus since we moved here seven years ago. I never turn them off.

I would not leave any of my hard-earned railroad electronics on when not in use, however I have 2 PCs and a couple Macs on 24/7.

To Rich Melvins posting, I will add that back in my contracting days, Compaq, nee Digital Equipment was my largest customer. We built oodles of "burn in" racks on which each new desktop computer was plugged in and tested, with the adage from Engineering that "if it runs 13 days on this rack, it will run forever". Short (not short circuit...LOL) of the unpredictable lightening strikes, acts of God, and other power anomalies, Rich is in locked-step with what we were being told. The year was roughly 1998.

I don't know how many failed at Day 12...LOL