Does anyone know about the ps 32 kit

Alan,

If i install the new PS 32 board to replace the older PS 2 5 volt boards. do you just change out the boards one for one or do you also have to replace the 16 ohm speaker and install the 4 ohm 3 watt speaker.

In addition to the board, you need to ensure that the speaker that is in the engine is a 4 ohm speaker and, if it is not, replace it with a 4 ohm speaker.

also what is the item number for the PS 32 kit or board and how much does it cost from mth as a member!

When the new upgrade kits are actually available for sale, you will find out if there's an increase from the $150 MTHRRC member price for the PS2 upgrade kits.

Unless you are an MTH tech and have been to MTH's training class, you cannot buy a stand-alone PS32 board set.

Thanks Barry for the info!

Alan

Barry will the new PS 32 board use 3 volt or 5 volt sound files, and is there any difference in thew sound quality vs. the older boards or PS 2 3volt board sound files.

thanks for any help you can provide!

Alan          

Alan,

As I understand the PS32 boards, they will come pre-programmed with a Chain File that will allow (and actually need) a PS2 3 volt sound file.

Alternatively, I believe, one could replace the Chain File with the engine's appropriate PS3 Chain file and then use a PS3 sound file instead of a 3 volt PS2 sound file.

If I have this wrong, I expect one of the experts in this regard (Marty F. or GGG) will come along and sort me out.  

PS-2 5V files can only be used with PS-2 5V boards.  The new PS-3 and PS-32 can use a PS-2 file if you want.  For repairing a PS-2 5V board it would be best to use the PS-2 5V Upgrade file (which is a 3V conversion file) that is normally posted along side the PS-2 5V file.

The PS-32 can use a PS-3 sound file and work.  May have different light functions, but it will work.  If you want to go full PS-3 you can load the PS-3 chain file too.

The PS-32 is unique in that it used the table data in the soundfile vice the hardware file because of the specific code it has.

PS-3 goes to the hardware table in the chain file for the table data (speed curve, light configuration, etc...).

All this and more in the stick above on PS-32.     G

Just curious, does the chain file have to be loaded by MTH techs (special equipment required)? Or can we as end users do it ourselves? 

The Chain File is loaded using the DCS Loader Program. Anyone can do it.

This and a whole lot more is all in MTH’s “The DCS O Gauge Companion 2nd Edition", available for purchase as an eBook or a printed book at MTH's web store!

As Barry States.  2 separate operations though.  One is Flash Load, other is Sound File Load.   G

George,

I was told by MTH to NOT change the chain files.  Have you tried it?

Thanks,

Dave

Dave,

I was told by MTH to NOT change the chain files.  Have you tried it?

What reason were you given for not changing them? After all, it's just a PS3 board under the stacker board.

Regardless, I agree that if you change the Chain File, you will lose the "universal upgrade" capability as an upgrade board, however, I cannot see how anything will be damaged or made non-functional.

Barry,

Yes, the upgradeable features would be lost.  From my understanding, the stacker board needs the chain files that are loaded into these kits.  I was also told that MTH does not yet offer these chain files (stacker) yet.

To run a full PS3 with sound file/lights/chain files, you would want to eliminate the stacker board and use a PS3 wire harness.  As posted above, you cannot get the regular PS3 boards (with PS3 socket) unless you are a tech and you cannot buy a wiring harness at all.

Let me know if I am wrong.  I'm still exploring what can be done with these boards.

Thanks,

Dave

Dave, The latest ASC notes provided the latest Chain files for PS-32.  Diesel, Steam and Trolley.  We still need Pantographs and any of the other specialty boards like COORS and AEM, Small Smoke.

So if you loaded a PS-3 chain file, you could go back to a PS-32 chain file.

You are correct that if you load a PS-3 chain file it will no longer look into the sound file for the characteristics, instead it would look at the PS-3 Chain file Hardware table.

The only issue for a generic steam or diesel would possibly be lighting issues.  Maybe speed if the PS-3 was geared different.   G

George,

the stacker board needs the chain files that are loaded into these kits.  I was also told that MTH does not yet offer these chain files (stacker) yet.

Please verify that the above is incorrect and my original statements, below, were correct.

I agree that if you change the Chain File, you will lose the "universal upgrade" capability as an upgrade board, however, I cannot see how anything will be damaged or made non-functional.

2 questions.

1. Have a 3 volt PS2 diesel and the same in PS3. The PS3 sounds are incorrect for the units so we can load in the PS2 sounds right? The issue is with these new replacement boards?

2. Have a 5 volt PS2 steamer, what is the best thing to do as it seems these boards are failing? Is this a candidate for this board? 

Placed it on the track a year ago and sound was awful so we pulled it off. Other than speaker anything else to do?

George,

I just went back to the ASC newsletter.  You are correct.  Sorry about that.

Dave

Thanks Barry & GGG.

Lima,

1. Have a 3 volt PS2 diesel and the same in PS3. The PS3 sounds are incorrect for the units so we can load in the PS2 sounds right? The issue is with these new replacement boards?

That's correct.

2. Have a 5 volt PS2 steamer, what is the best thing to do as it seems these boards are failing? Is this a candidate for this board? 

Placed it on the track a year ago and sound was awful so we pulled it off. 

Once the board fails, you can replace it with one of the following:

• A PS2 3 volt board with 5 volt connectors
• A PS2 3 volt board with 3 volt connectors if you also swap the connectors with the dead 5 volt board
• A PS32 board with 5 volt connectors.

Regardless, you'll need to swap out the engine's 16 ohm speaker for a 4 ohm speaker and, if it's a PS2 board replacement, also swap out the battery and charging port.

Barry, You are correct, I just expanded on it.  The little know issue is that PS-3 sound files still have hardware information coded into the sound file by policy of MTH.  So if you use a PS-3 Sound file in a PS-32 board, the stacker board will get the hardware information out of the PS-3 sound file. 

A PS-3 board goes into the flash hardware table for the information.  G

George,

I spoke with Jeff S. this afternoon.

We discussed how, if one uses a specific Chain File and Sound File from a PS3 (production) engine with the PS32 board, it's possible that the lighting functions vs. actual pin connections won't necessarily "line up".

Jeff's opinion is that it's actually better, when possible, to use the PS32 board's "native" Chain File with an engine's PS2 3 volt sound file.

2.20 and 2.30 are the ONLY DCS Consumer Loader software versions you can use to program Proto-Sound 3.0 Locomotives.  Using any previous version of the DCS Consumer Loader to program a Proto-Sound 3.0 equipped locomotive will disable the Proto-Sound 3.0 electronics and require the locomotive be returned to M.T.H. for repair. is this related to the chain file being over written with the sound files on these boards we are discussing ps 2 3 volt ps 32 board kits .

Alan

Barry. I agree. I have been saying that lighting effects and such may be effected all along.  But it is an option and for some simple set ups such as basic steam it may work fine.   G

Alan,

is this related to the chain file being over written with the sound files on these boards we are discussing ps 2 3 volt ps 32 board kits .

First, your quoting an issue that's old (a couple of years old) news.

Second, this has nothing to do with the PS32 boards, which were not even being contemplated when this potential problem was being discussed.

Third, it's all completely detailed in The DCS O Gauge Companion 2nd Edition on page 213:

Appendix I: Avoiding a Problem When Upgrading PS3 Engine Sound Files

When DCS 4.20 and Loader Program 2.20 became available, it became possible to damage the electronics in a PS3 engine (HO or O gauge) when using a Loader Program earlier than version 2.20 to upgrade the engine's sound file.

The following information is intended to provide a better understanding of why this is so, what exactly is the damage to the PS3 engine, how to avoid damaging the PS3 engine, and what to do if damage does result.

Why Damage May Result

The new Loader Program 2.20 is the first Loader Program developed that is aware that PS3 engines exist, and that their on-board memory format is very different from that of a PS2 engine's. This allows the Loader Program 2.20 to effectively update the sound file in a PS3 engine where previous Loader Programs are unable to do so. If a Loader Program version earlier than 2.20 attempts to update the sound file in a PS3 engine, the wrong memory locations will be overwritten causing the PS3 engine to become non-functional.

What Exactly is Damaged

The PS3 engine's electronics are not permanently damaged. Rather, the engine's firmware code is overwritten and the engine's processor no longer has an operational program to follow. Therefore, the board's processor shuts down and the engine is no longer functional. Unfortunately, the correction of this problem is beyond the ability of the DCS operator to effect, since doing so requires the use of factory-type procedures that are currently available only to MTH.

How Damage May be Avoided

When upgrading the sound file in a PS3 engine, a successful outcome is expected if, and only if, the Loader Program 2.20 is being used to do the sound file update and the TIU being utilized for the sound file update is running DCS 4.20. It is important to note the following: 

• Any combination of Loader Program, TIU hardware model and DCS version may be used to update the sound file in any PS2 engine 

• Any TIU model may be used in the sound file update process for PS3 engines 

• If Loader Program 2.20 is used with a DCS version other than DCS 4.20 in an attempt to update the sound file in a PS3 engine, the sound file update will fail with an error message. However, the PS3 engine will be unaffected 

• It is only if a Loader Program earlier than version 2.20 is used with any release of DCS to attempt to update the sound file in a PS3 engine that the PS3 engine will be rendered inoperable 

• The only way to update the sound file in a PS3 engine effectively is to use Loader Program 2.20 and any model TIU with DCS 4.20 installed.

What to Do if Damage Does Result

If a failed sound file update attempt of a PS3 engine causes the engine to become inoperable, the only recourse is to contact MTH, obtain an RMA (return merchandise authorization) number and send the engine to MTH for reprogramming of the engine's PS3 board. At present, neither DCS operators nor MTH Authorized Service Centers have the factory-type capability to effect the required repair.

Why it's Not Possible to Completely Avoid the Problem

The architecture of the DCS TIU does not permit the TIU to initiate communication with the Loader Program. All it is able to do is respond to queries from the Loader Program. Therefore, it's impossible for the TIU to learn the version number of the Loader Program, and advise the Loader Program to halt the sound file update operation if the Loader program is a version earlier than 2.20.

Further, since Loader Programs previous to version 2.20 were completely unaware of the differences in the memory structure of PS3 engines as compared to PS2 engines, they have no way to avoid the problem.

This and a whole lot more is all in MTH’s “The DCS O Gauge Companion 2nd Edition", available for purchase as an eBook or a printed book at MTH's web store!

thanks everybody for all the information discussed.

Al

Hmmm, I have read this thread with great interest and wish I had read it before I changed the chain files on my PS-32 board set.  I lost the marker lights, the head light in on in reverse and off going forward, the backup light only comes on when you turn on the marker lights with soft key LMK but the marker lights do not come on.  Now I have also lost the tach signal.  I assume since the boards are only available to an ASC I can put the Big Boy back in the display case for a few more years. I may try to order them if I can find the part number for the PS-3 board. I have the one for the PS-32 Board(w/ white 3volt PS2 Connectors).

Papajohn, there is a software  bug that sometimes affects these lights when smoke is turned off.  Try a featurereset.

He changed the sound file.  That is what I told folks about can happen if you go load a PS-3 chain file with a PS-32 board.  Outputs may not be the same.

THe good news is the PS-32 Chain files are suppose to be on MTH web.  Load the Steam one.  If not, e-mail me and I can send you the correct steam Chain file to reload.   G

I just looked in the members list and could not find your email address.

Click on GGG in the margin of his post

Thanks RJR, I should have paid more attention, oh well another senior moment. 

All good information guys.  I just did a Q-2 with locomotive mounted board and used the chain file Jeff sent the tech guys with the correct file for the engine.  The big issue guys will have is fabricating a heat sink bracket for engine mounted boards.  It is what it is and I am happy for the 32 boards as I still have many 5 volt boards in service.

Being an old hot rod guy, I have no problem with fabrication.  George and I have talked about some of them.

Here is an update since last night.  I received the PS-32 steam chain file and loaded it this morning.  some things are better however it still does not recognize the tach signal so it runs away at full throttle as soon as you advance to 1 smph.  Lesson learned from all of this:  DO NOT APPLY PS-3 CHAIN FILES TO A PS-32 UPGRADE KIT!!  I am assuming I will be paying for a replacement board set next. Does anyone know if they are even available at this time?  I understand the kits are not currently available.

Thanks

John, where did you get the chain files from and what did you load for a sound file?  You might not be dead yet.  I can send you the proper PS 32 chain file to use in the 32 board if you want.  Load PS2  3 volt sound file into the 32 board.

If Loader Program 2.20 is used with a DCS version other than DCS 4.20 in an attempt to update the sound file in a PS3 engine, the sound file update will fail with an error message.....The only way to update the sound file in a PS3 engine effectively is to use Loader Program 2.20 and any model TIU with DCS 4.20 installed.

Barry, is this info from your 2nd Edition outdated in that it doesn't mention DCS versions later than 4.2?

The more I see of PS3, the more it makes me think it has become overcomplicated.  PS2 was and is stable and simple, and given one can use a supercap or BCR with PS2, I still see no advantage to having PS3.

Papajohn, before seeking a replacement board, I'd double check tach reader gap, tach tape, and try a replacement reader.

Marty, I sent it to him and that restored all the light features.  I told him all the typical things to check for a loss of speed control.  Don't believe this is a chain file issue, otherwise it would be a first.   G

Robert,

is this info from your 2nd Edition outdated in that it doesn't mention DCS versions later than 4.2?

Not at all. As always, using the latest version of DCS and the latest version of the Loader Program, all is well.

The more I see of PS3, the more it makes me think it has become overcomplicated.  PS2 was and is stable and simple, and given one can use a supercap or BCR with PS2, I still see no advantage to having PS3.

Then you really don't understand the value of the FPGA chip as a DSP, rather than an ASIC.

Further, PS3 isn't any more complicated than PS2. It simply provides more capability to those who want it.

My first step on that issue is to check for continuity on the 7 pin plug tach wires to the back side of the tach reader.  I know George gave him that step.  Do we know if this engine runs in conventional?

Then you really don't understand the value of the FPGA chip as a DSP, rather than an ASIC.

Correct. Not only do I not know the value (what is it?), I don't even know what FPGA, DSP, and ASIC mean.

All I know is that PS2 gives me reliable control of loco direction, speed, lights, whistle, bell, couplin etc., without being limited to blocks,  It is also fairly repairable, according to GGG, does not have a troublesome 40-pin connector, permits changing sound and control files (all in one file) easily.

It's rare, but it has happened to me that a runaway loco was caused b a loose flywheel.  I also has a 5-volt PS2 that would occasionally go into runaway mode, curable by a reset.  After this happened a few times I installed a 3-volt board.

I have checked the wiring, all of the wiring is good. I have checked the output of the tach reader, it only shows a small variance in voltage between black and white stripes. The sound file I loaded is for 30-1445-1 this is Proto Sound 2.0 3 volt file, the file name is r071pf3_bigboy_up_070530bfin.mth.  Last night I did a feature reset, factory reset then reloaded the chain files. After if was complete when I shut track power down the locomotive beeped several times.  When I applied track power again it beeped again, it is trying to tell me something or is this normal behavior after loading chain files? Track power is supplied to fixed in 1 from a Z750 transformer.  Voltage to the track is 21.9 volts from the TIU.