Repairing trailing truck screw on Lionel Legacy UP FEF 3 (finally a resolution)

Mth sells screws so I don't see why Lionel wouldn't. 

I went to the Lionel web site parts page and selected “match part name” and searched by “screw’. The web site returned more than 500 different screw part numbers.   I did not notice how many were actually in stock.  

Looks like this FEF-3 uses a very similar setup:

https://www.lionelsupport.com/...ce-9d38-8f5feabf0216

Is this what you need?

I have that engine as well. I believe you are talking about the stud, spring and clip assembly that goes in the middle of the truck, right? This is it on mine viewed from underneath and the side:

There is also a small washerhead screw at the front of the truck but as that has no spring I think you mean the set of parts that is actually fitted through the drawbar. 

While the Lionel replacement parts list for this first run Legacy FEF-3 doesn't appear to me to list these items (although it does list other screws and fasteners, of which I have got literally scores from Lionel), the second run Legacy FEF-3 parts list does include them and those models in most respects use the exact same tooling as the earlier ones. So if you look, for example, on the SKU 6-82806 parts page instead of 6-11116, this is the exploded parts illustration and the stud, clips and spring are numbered 7 and 34-38 shown on the lower right of the image:

These should fit but you could always ask Lionel to confirm. 

Incidentally, I don't see how those parts could come out (maybe because a clip broke) without leaving some residue on your layout, so they might be in between track ties or something. Also I don't know how you re-install this assembly and it might mean taking the boiler shell off but that's relatively easy on these engines. I caution about the handrails at the very front which fit into two small upright tubes on either side of the pilot (part 20 in the image). These require some care to get them back in place when you are re-assembling the engine.

If this is the screw in question you can also get them from McMaster Carr. From Lionel one screw will cost you maybe 50 cents plus 10 bucks shipping. From McMaster 100 screws will cost you 3 bucks plus about 5 bucks shipping.

Pete

yes I know for  a fact Lionel sells screws as I have purchase from there screws that I had trouble finding that mth did not even have1

Hancock52, thank you for the information.  The screw I need is the one that goes through the oblong hole in the front of the truck.  When you are pulling a train, this screw takes all the strain.  It is a pretty large opening so I was thinking it was a shoulder screw so that it would tighten and still allow the truck assembly to move freely.  Item 30 looks to be in the correct position in Lionel's exploded parts photo but I can't believe a shoulder screw would only run 30 cents.

Guess i will call Lionel to make sure.

Thanks to all who responded,

Don

Hello  DGJONES....he may not have the part number, yet you can get those screws from Len Carparelli (sp) who has taken over Ted Nygerges' screw emporium.

Looks to me like a 6-32x1/4 washer head. If you can't locate one, drop me a line. and oh, Len would not have this type of special screw.

Thanks for all the replies.  I called Lionel and after about 10 minutes of research on her end, i was told the correct part number is 608861732 and they do have them in stock. 

A 30 cents screw can certainly tie things up.

Thanks again for the help!  This forum is great!

Don

This screw is a lot longer than 1/4", and it has a shoulder as well.  It'll be more like 5/8" or 3/4" with about a 3/8" shoulder.

I've "created" these in the past by using a screw, washer, and the correct sized brass tubing.  If you have to get one back on the road, it's the quick fix until you can find the correct screw.

This sounds like the one he's talking about.

While I don't have a sample of that engine, why do you think it is shouldered?

I believe the screw threads into a boss that is cast into the frame. The truck swivels on the cast in boss, the screw just holds it in place. The boss can be seen in Handcock52's photo.

You're right Chuck, I don't have that specific engine in front of me.  I've seen them both ways.  His comment about it carrying all the load suggested to me that it was the screw that was carrying the load, hence it would be a shouldered screw.

I did not notice it before but yes, there is a boss that the screw threads into and just keeps the oval part from dropping down:

As HANCOCK52 mentioned, have you checked your layout thoroughly for the missing screw & spring. I had the same thing happen to me once (on a Weaver engine) and, although it took me awhile, with the use of a flashlight I was able to find all of the missing parts. Good Luck!

Hancock52 posted:

I did not notice it before but yes, there is a boss that the screw threads into and just keeps the oval part from dropping down:

 

In this case a simple metric screw with a washer would have worked. Hardware store item.

Pete

Here's how I find missing magnetic hardware that drops off my locomotives.  The magnet is a Neodymium magnet intended for use with wind turbine generators.  It's capable of lifting close to 100 pounds.  I tried to put metal wheels on the car, but the magnet attracted them so strongly that they wouldn't turn, and I was just dragging the car with stationary wheels.

I just pull this plastic wheeled car around a couple of times and then hold it over the workbench and lift the magnet out.  All the collected debris falls off the bottom and I can look through what I find to see if the missing bits are there.  There is a good reason NOT to put the magnet on the bottom, you then have to get all the little tiny bits off the magnet, that is a major PITA.

It's not metric. 6-32 SAE thread. BTW, What hardware store carries Metric screws?

Chuck Sartor posted:

It's not metric. 6-32 SAE thread. BTW, What hardware store carries Metric screws?

Home Depot, Ace Hardware, Lowes, Runnings, Tru Value, plus a couple of the mom and pops local to here. In this day and age I would ask what hardware stores don't stock metric screws?

If its 6-32 then even less reason to order from Lionel.

Pete

Many of the screws on Lionel and MTH are 6-32, then there are all the metric screws.  Too bad they couldn't standardize...

Gunrunner John,

That is a nice Metal Sweeper.  Do you plan on making them for sale?  If you do, post the price. Is there a warranty on the magnet?  You know how things break for me.

I am sure Lionel has screws.  I am waiting for some that Aaron is sending me for my Allegheny #1604.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

No sale plans John, this was just an ad-hoc solution to a problem.  I happened to have the little tender handy and also some extra magnets I had used in a water purification experiment.  I put them together, added the plastic wheels, and I had a handy layout MOW tool.

I will tell you, if you ever tinker with this size Neodymium magnets, be VERY careful!  Two of them in close proximity can be quite dangerous!  I watched a few years ago as my brother destroyed two of these.  He let them get too close on the bench (about 6" apart).  They came together with a sound like a gunshot, and there were sharp shards of magnet all over the place!  I was lucky that I was a few feet from the action, he got zapped with a couple of shards.  Neodymium magnets are sintered metal and when they shatter, they're like china, very ugly!  There wasn't a piece larger than 1/10 of each of them left, it was quite a demonstration of the power of strong magnetism!

John Rowlen posted:

I am sure Lionel has screws.  I am waiting for some that Aaron is sending me for my Allegheny #1604.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

There's a joke in there somewhere lol!

You would know better than anybody John.

Well, after all this time, I have finally been able to repair my engine!  I ordered the screw that Lionel exploded parts diagram indicated was needed but is was way too short and did not have a long enough shoulder.  A friend owns the same engine except in black, so I borrowed his engine to find out what I needed.  What I discovered it that the shoulder I was thinking would be on the screw was actually supposed to be a .320 high stub that was part of the frame assembly.  Mine had broken off so clean that it did not look like anything was missing.  Upon checking my friends engine, I was able to determine the correct height of the boss and diameter.  Much like Gunrunner John mentioned above, I tapped the hole the rest of the way through the casting, cut a 1/4 inch piece of copper tubing to the .320 height and used a #6 X 3/4 screw with a small washer to hold it all in place.  So my FEF is now once again in revenue service after more than a year of shelf duty.

Although my friends engine was fine when I took the screw out, when I replaced the screw and started to tighten it, his boss kind of disintegrated, so I had to repair his as well.  I suspect that if he had pulled a long train, his was on the verge of failing.

Thanks to all who responded!

Happy railroading,

Don

Sounds right, glad you are back in revenue service.

A happy ending is always welcome.  Congrats on the successful repair.

Hancock52 posted:

 

 

Don, so glad you got it solved!

And because everyone knows I'm the best about staying on topic... does anyone else see evidence of zinc pest in the above photo?  Check your frames, people, not like it's a major part or anything.   

My frame is long gone, replaced with lifetime bronze.  These things are gorgeous models!  The photos above indicate that Lionel flanges are on a diet..

Ted S posted:

Hancock52 posted:

 

 

"does anyone else see evidence of zinc pest in the above photo?"

It sure appears that way.

Oh my!...The back side looks like it’s getting ready to crumble!.....that can’t be good!.....Pat

DGJONES posted:

Although my friends engine was fine when I took the screw out, when I replaced the screw and started to tighten it, his boss kind of disintegrated, so I had to repair his as well.  I suspect that if he had pulled a long train, his was on the verge of failing.

Thanks to all who responded!

Happy railroading,

Don

Wow, these are gonna crumble.    Lionel shows frames in stock (at $220), but the repair parts may also have the disease.  I think I'm going to give up on Modern O and collect Dorfan.  At least then I'll know what to expect.

Ted S posted:

Lionel shows frames in stock (at $220), but the repair parts may also have the disease. 

Sure, but maybe you'll outlive the replacement part.   Depending on the locomotive, it's somewhat of a giant PITA to slide a new frame in.  Imagine doing that with the Vision Line CC2!

Hello all,

I stumbled upon this thread and decided to examine my 844, model 6-11131. While not as severe as the one in the photos, mine does show signs of cracking under the cab. The trailing truck stud has very fine cracks. I suppose I will have to check the frame from time to time. Bummer.

Gee, I was looking at the Legacy FEF as I really like that locomotive.  Now I'm glad that I didn't find one and I converted an MTH Premier FEF to TMCC instead!

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Gee, I was looking at the Legacy FEF as I really like that locomotive.  Now I'm glad that I didn't find one and I converted an MTH Premier FEF to TMCC instead!

I have several 15-20 year old MTH Premier steam locomotives. All show no signs of zinc issues. You should be fine 😉.

I have a number of them as well, and I've yet to see any issues.  I must admit, MTH has had their issues, I saw an old RailKing Torpedo tender that just looked like it melted, it has about 3/8" sway in the top from zinc pest.  To MTH's credit, even though this was many years old, they supplied a new tender shell, apparently it was a common issue with that run.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I have a number of them as well, and I've yet to see any issues.  I must admit, MTH has had their issues, I saw an old RailKing Torpedo tender that just looked like it melted, it has about 3/8" sway in the top from zinc pest.  To MTH's credit, even though this was many years old, they supplied a new tender shell, apparently it was a common issue with that run.

It seems to be mostly Chinese made stuff from both MTH and Lionel that are affected by Zinc pest. MTH Premier steam (still, and has always been, made in South Korea) and older Lionel production made in South Korea have been pretty much rock solid.