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I just got a MTH engine in. It wouldn't run a lap. Actually it wouldn't move much at all. So I tore into it. I found small pieces of debris in the exposed side gears which had been greased liberally. I even found some inside the fuel tank on the speaker causing some noises. My 3 rail loop doesn't have ballast yet and the engine wouldn't run as delivered.

I believe it's just some ballast. Whatever it is, it jammed up the wheels and made the engine shut down after several attempts. I have always wanted to lube these exposed side gears. I just have to believe a light weight oil is all that should be applied. I only apply it to the gear shafts and not on the actual gear's teeth.

The grease seems to make the ballast adhere to the gears.

So I'm sure some members will chime in now. I just believe that this grease will only cause headaches.

I didn't know where to post this so I put it here because I run 2 rail!

Last edited by Engineer-Joe
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I'm going to spin this. The lesson learned is, don't ballast. If you are going to ballast, make sure it's glued well and then vacuum any loose stuff up. Same with scenery, sawdust, carpet fibers.

You paid all that money for an engine- don't trash it with contamination in the gears and bushings.

I'm saying this- because I have certain club members who want to have a ballasting party and bring this up all the time.

I've been saying this for years: Don't put your locomotive resting on anything other than a smooth clean surface. Greased gears will pick up any kind of dirt, and especially including carpeting of any kind - including low pile.

Even on this forum, I can't tell you how many times I've seen photos of folks with their locomotive sitting on the floor, or worse yet, sitting on carpeting.... especially in the for sale ads here. If you have a floor layout, then grab a magazine or something similar, and place your locomotive on that.

There was one guy who showed his layout reconstruction with photos, showing his expensive locomotives sitting on the layout board surface, which you could clearly see was covered in plaster dust and debris.

I run the sorts of train products that get knocked about a lot on this forum. Yet in 33+ years I've no real problems and NEVER a broken or cracked gear - even with nearly all nylon/plastic gears. The key is to keep the gears lubricated and then not set the loco on a surface where it is going to pick up dirt and debris.

In my train room, I have carpeting. I also have devoted places where I can temporarily set a locomotive without placing it on the carpeting.

And anyone who cleaned their carpeting with a carpet shampoo machine, knows there's an awful lot of dirt that comes out with that water that you could not see. It only takes one little piece of something foreign to get into the gears, to stop your engine from running - and worse yet - to crack or break a gear. And metal gears are not immune to this either.

So the better advice would be, grease the gears and then be careful where you set your loco when it goes off the track.

Last edited by brianel_k-lineguy

Along those same lines......

Don't take my earlier message as not agreeing with what was said about lube- lube with the correct lube and amounts, don't lube the wrong things with the wrong lube. Don't drown the engine dripping with lube. Don't leave the surface of a gearbox or bottom of a truck wet with even the residue of of a previous drip. Wipe it down and ensure it's as clean and dry to not attract fibers and dirt.

It's about what causes what. You can have a bone dry engine, never lubed, destroyed with tinsel, hair, carpet fibers, animal hair, dust, grit, dirt, and yes, scenery products like ballast, painted sawdust grass, on and on.

Yes, lubing in general- anything open, lube tends to attract the above long list of "destroyers" and over lubing (excess lubricant and lubing things not needing lube) just attracts that much more. Not to mention traction tires, rail traction in general, slime on the track, conductivity, it all becomes the cycle of self destruction. Your track becomes dirty because your engines are dirty and and rolling stock recontaminates after you clean the track.

You want your expensive new train to run in as clean and debris free track and layout, as clean as possible- both from a rail and what is on or near the rails perspective. Wiping down the rails is not enough, and vacuuming or other methods of sweeping and ensuring dust, dirt, hair, fibers, and other things do not accumulate around the trains path. They will likely end up in your gears, wrapped around your axles, and into your bushings.

I'm just saying, again, lubrication- needed (required) in many places to prevent wear. At the same time, the very lube used, or used to excess, or wrong lube used in the wrong place, can then pick up dirt, dust, grit, fibers, hair, and destroy a bearing or gear, lockup or overload a motor and cause as much damage, if not more than not lubing a location. The wrong lube or excess lube drips and migrates to where it should not be. Grease and other thicker lubricants tend to dry out or attract and capture dirt.

Again my first reply was sort of tongue-in-cheek in that there are tons and tons and tons of stories in the last 4 years I have seen of the stray grain of ballast caught in an exposed truck gear train locking it up. Probably makes one of the top things to check for in any train won't move topic.

A few thoughts on this... I'm a 3-railer, and I probably won't ever ballast.  IMO, "Rossbed" (carded, form-fitting roadbed) sprayed with Stone speckled Krylon is realistic enough to accompany 3-rail track.  Also, there are companies that sell ballast made out of ground rubber.  It seems like that would be much kinder to your gears.

The real culprit here are the spur gears inherent to the "China drive."  An Atlas SW switcher wouldn't have this problem. It's just about the only mass-produced diesel that's made the "right" way.  Lionel also got it right back in 1948 with their revered 2333 "Growlers":  NO exposed spur gears to sling grease all over the running rails, etc.  Then cost considerations prevailed.  Weaver's Ultra Line diesels, tank drives, etc., were all fine.  Then came the Curse of 1992, which apparently plagues us to this day!

@dkdkrd posted:

An occasional trip around the layout with a device like this...

TrackVac idea

...might help keep debris out of the gears...lubed or not.

Adding a strong magnet to 'sweep' ferritic debris is useful, too.

FWIW...

Now that idea I like. Some posts I don't like. Don't ballast???

That's like telling people who have trains, you can't have a cat.

How about just don't grease exposed gears. I have engines that have never been greased that I run all the time. They are old. They have held up fine. Just put a dab of very fine oil on the shafts if you want.

I haven't seen the bad cast gear yet myself. I have had a few short out and melt the insulator. I believe anything can happen.

Last edited by Engineer-Joe

I'm with Joe on this one. I have numerous engines that have zero lubrication on the exposed gear that have run flawlessly for many years and thousands of hours with no trouble what so ever.  Some of the instructions manuals provided with these locomotives make no mention of lubricating these gears at all. If anything, a light oil or grease applied sparingly should last a very long time.

@Ted S posted:

A few thoughts on this... I'm a 3-railer, and I probably won't ever ballast. 

After watching a lot of videos on REAL engines running on rails with their ballast Ted, I often thought that modelers had ballast that looked over sized.    ( surely to emphasise the fact that there is a gravel roadbed )

Even walking along rail lines the ballast did not look like it was the size I am accostomed to see on model railroads.

I have never ballasted track.   I have Realtrax and Fastrack .   On the Christmas PE Fastrack I have taken an old small fan brush with heavier paint and randomly stippled the plastic to give the effect of snow laced gravel with satisfactory results.         I thought maybe some color choices would give a decent look to a normal roadbed.

At least the chance of roadbed material getting in places it is not desired could be eliminated.

I do use my MOOSOO track vac MORE OFTEN than I thought I would at first.     It amazes me how much magnetic material accumulates after only a few hours of running trains.   Don't need that kind of stuff floating around electric circuitry. 

@Engineer-Joe posted:

How about just don't grease exposed gears. I have engines that have never been greased that I run all the time. They are old. They have held up fine. Just put a dab of very fine oil on the shafts if you want.

I agree with you on this. I don't lubricate gear contact surfaces at all and have never had worn gears. Lubricating gears causes them to attract dirt. It is necessary to lubricate axles and bearing surfaces because there is a significant difference in velocity between the stationary bearing surface and the rotating axle that creates a shear stress that could cause wear. The situation with contact between gears is different because the relative sliding velocity between the contacting teeth of the two gears is much lower. Actually, as two teeth engage and disengage, the low relative sliding velocities reverse direction and therefore become zero. Gear tooth surface stresses are primarily perpendicular to the contacting surfaces (normal stress) and are not high enough to warrant lubrication on a model. Worm gears are another story.

MELGAR

Last edited by MELGAR

I have greased all the exposed gears on diesels for many years.  Engines seem to run with less noise when I grease the gears.  I have run most of my engines outdoors on the G&O railroad.  A good portion of the roadbed is granite fines with the Atlas track laid on top.  I haven't had any major issues with gears picking up junk.  Sometimes an engine will pickup a small twig or piece of a plant.  It has been easy to remove and clean.  I will continue to grease the gears.  NH Joe

These are Lionel engines with Legacy control.

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