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GeoPeg posted:

Does anybody know of any sort of adaptor that would allow me to use a 3/16" drill bit in my Dremel Model 395? I have a mini chuck, but I think it maxes out around 1/8"

Why would you want to? I would think that the Dremel wouldn't have enough torque to effectively turn a 3/16" drill bit and cut into any material other than styrene. I always use a cordless drill, even with numbered drill bits down to size #54.

banjoflyer posted:
GeoPeg posted:

Does anybody know of any sort of adaptor that would allow me to use a 3/16" drill bit in my Dremel Model 395? I have a mini chuck, but I think it maxes out around 1/8"

 

Yes. Not an adapter but rather a different kind of reduced shank bit.

Check out these bits. The largest bit is 1/4" diameter with an 1/8" shank.

I'd only use these if your Dremel tool is variable speed and then I'd select a low rpm.

Mark

Thanks Mark! They're on order now! Simple solution - I LOVE simple!!

bob2 posted:

A $50 Harbor Freight drill press will change your life!  Drilling with a Dremel is my last resort.

Thanks bob2, that was actually my 1st choice. However, I read many negative reviews on not just Harbor Freight's, but other inexpensive bench-top drill presses, and heard many horror stories ranging from bad runout on the chuck to difficulties adjusting the table, etc. I do own some Harbor Freight tools, including an arbor press and must confess I am not always pleased with their quality.

I will try the Dremel brad point bits 1st since I already have the Dremel and a drill press accessory for it. 

I just broke a Harbor Freight grinder stand.

It's top plate was crap cast vs plate steel and the draw of the bolts was enough to flex the cast plate which snapped one by one at about only 20ftlb of torque.

Low quality? Sure; usually. But I've seen some good ones and the price is right.

The thing to do is take your dial gauges and check a big tool out well before you buy it. I'd do the same if it was a Jet/Bridgeport/etc.

What Hot Water says is correct. You will burn up your Dremel. BTDT. Using a lower speed only exacerbates the issue. Using higher speed may burn up the drill bit. Using lower speed will only make the motor stall easier and it will fry in a matter of seconds.

Its up to you but you should just use a drill motor.

Pete

I break out the larger drills for holes this large.  If you're worried about positioning the hole, drill a small pilot hole with the tool of your choice, then use the full-sized bit and drill to finish the hole.  For precision drilling, I recently picked up this little antique, works really well and has no measurable runout.

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Hot Water posted:
GeoPeg posted:

Does anybody know of any sort of adaptor that would allow me to use a 3/16" drill bit in my Dremel Model 395? I have a mini chuck, but I think it maxes out around 1/8"

Why would you want to? I would think that the Dremel wouldn't have enough torque to effectively turn a 3/16" drill bit and cut into any material other than styrene. I always use a cordless drill, even with numbered drill bits down to size #54.

Why? Because that's the size hole I need to drill into an old 289-33 (fiberboard?) brush plate to allow a press fit of the oilite bearings I got from Train Tender - and I have a Dremel drill press to make the hole more perpendicular than a hand drill might allow.

On the Harbor Freight - yes, some of their stuff is indeed horrible.  The $50 drill press is based on one sold by Craftsman a third of a century ago for $200.  It is cast iron with good bearings.  I have one in the train shop, one in each aircraft hangar, and one converted to a rivet embosser.  I have drilled tens of thousands of holes, from 1/4" down to #77.  My original press, from the 1980s, has just started squeaking.  It has participated in over 40 scratchbuilt steam models.

You cannot go wrong with this one.

C W Burfle posted:

Boy that is a nice press that John has. Saw one at our annual fire department flea market fundraiser a couple of years ago. I guess I should have grabbed it.

I got it right here in the forum with some other tools, I was really interested in the press and tools, but as it turns out, the mini saw and drill press have been more useful so far.   The drill press is really a precision piece, and the list price of these is pretty staggering, they're not cheap!

I would invest in a old Atlas/Sears bench top drill press (look for one that has a separate motor and step pulleys for changing speeds). These can usually take a bit up to 1/2 inch.

You can find these on Craig's list/eBay or garage sales.
Should be less than $60.00.
Just be patient and you will find one.

Last tools that I found at a garage sale was a 1" Sears belt sander for $5.00 then a Sears band saw (80 inch blade) with stand and foot pedal switch (like new, just had to be set-up) for $50.00.

 

Actually, if it is Bakelite or a hard plastic, the high rpm would likely be beneficial to the cut. There likely wont be enough cut heat to wipe out the cutting edge anyhow.... but coolant/oil seldom hurts.

  Too slow a speed on brittle stuff and it is more likely to grab and chip out and/or crack either the work or bit.  In fact with some compounds, grinding a hole vs cutting may be the way to go. 

At my family's gauge making shop, I was taught to use a low feed, a high speed, and a dull, steep rake bit for avoiding grabbing at the cut on brittle plastics. A dull, deep cut rake at high speed will scrape vs cut too fast.  Even do running in reverse to break out the bottom cleaner (or to cut by melting in reverse or fwd). On some plastics this will melt through less than clean, but still beats grabbing and cracking or cutting so fast you get an oblong or incomplete cut on breakthrough (a half punched hole with a spiral plug still there) I just clean & open those messy cuts with a file/grinder (yes I have hand broaches too (tiny, fine, file/reamer of sorts for tiny precision holes.))

A pilot hole always helps. Even at 3/16". Your cuts will usually be better with a pilot; and the bits, especially starting tips, will stay sharper longer on the bigger (more expensive) bits.

Adriatic posted:

 

Actually, if it is Bakelite or a hard plastic, the high rpm would likely be beneficial to the cut. There likely wont be enough cut heat to wipe out the cutting edge anyhow.... but coolant/oil seldom hurts.

  Too slow a speed on brittle stuff and it is more likely to grab and chip out and/or crack either the work or bit.  In fact with some compounds, grinding a hole vs cutting may be the way to go. 

At my family's gauge making shop, I was taught to use a low feed, a high speed, and a dull, steep rake bit for avoiding grabbing at the cut on brittle plastics. A dull, deep cut rake at high speed will scrape vs cut too fast.  Even do running in reverse to break out the bottom cleaner (or to cut by melting in reverse or fwd). On some plastics this will melt through less than clean, but still beats grabbing and cracking or cutting so fast you get an oblong or incomplete cut on breakthrough (a half punched hole with a spiral plug still there) I just clean & open those messy cuts with a file/grinder (yes I have hand broaches too (tiny, fine, file/reamer of sorts for tiny precision holes.))

A pilot hole always helps. Even at 3/16". Your cuts will usually be better with a pilot; and the bits, especially starting tips, will stay sharper longer on the bigger (more expensive) bits.

Thank you for the advice - my plan when the new bits arrive was to actually use hi speed, low feed. My concern is the type of bits https://www.amazon.com/gp/prod...00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 these look like wood boring bits, I'm quite afraid these will snag/chip on the bakelite-like material - hence the hi speed.

You will be OK using a dremel on the brush holder. Its thin and unlikely to snag the drill. Your best bet would be a standard drill bit though. The trouble with the brad point drills pictured is they are not meant to enlarge a hole as the center point may be too small to follow the center of the existing hole. If there was no hole already they would be fine. 

Look around and you will find reduced shank drills. Larger diameters are referred to as Silver and Deming drills. 

I used to have the older Dremel drill press attachment where you moved the table up rather than move the tool down. It was very handy for small holes but it only worked with the original style Dremels.

Bob2 is right though. You would not regret getting the Harbor Freight drill press. 

I picked up a small drill press about the size of GRJ's though not as precise at a swap meet for 5 bucks. Use it all the time model building.

Pete

Last edited by Norton

With tricky materials, I've had good luck doing the holes by simply stepping up one size at a time.  I'm currently drilling cases for TMCC Buffers, and I have a 3/8" hole to drill right near the edge.  I broke two cases before I decided to change my ways.  Now I use a stepped approach and use four bits stepping up a little in size.  Haven't lost a case since, and I've done about sixty of them so far.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

With tricky materials, I've had good luck doing the holes by simply stepping up one size at a time.  

Agreed....especially in the smaller sizes.

Nonetheless, there are other means of stepping up bores...tapered reamers, needle (small diameters) and rat tail (larger diameters) files (fine cut) that I've also used.  In soft materials you can also use a smooth tapered tool such as an awl, needles, et al, to gradually creep up on a bore for a snug/press fit such as the OP is trying to do.

But, returning to the use of numbered drill bits for smaller size bores, the common sets of #61-80 and #41-60 (Micro-Mark) have been indispensable just for this purpose.

This thread has reminded me that I have an older Dremel drill press....the table is raised manually to the fixed motor/bit, older style motor tool configuration...that I'm no longer using (compatible motor tool needs parts that Dremel no longer provides).  If anyone has an interest, wants to know more, email me.

KD

I will be looking at the Harbor Freight drill press in person and up close later this/next week.

In the meantime, I was going to wait until my drill bits arrived and use the Dremel, but upon closer examination, my Dremel has quite a bit of runout, visually even more than my cordless drill, so.... I'm not a patient person sometimes - I grabbed the cordless drill and started drilling by hand, using my calibrated eyeball to judge entry angle!

I mic'd out the drill bit and the bearing - bit was 0.006" smaller than the OD of the bearing I was installing, so that worked like a charm - wiped a bit of epoxy around the ID of the new hole and pressed the bearing in place - then installed brush plate on motor, sans brushes, and tweaked until everything was free rolling. Things are now drying. BTW, I used gorilla glue epoxy instead of JB Weld, seems to dry harder than the Weld stuff, definitely quicker.

I got three different pairs of bearings from Jeff Kane, two were just oilite sleeves, one longer than the other, third was a flanged bearing which was a total bust! As others were telling me, there's no room for a flanged bearing. But at a buck a piece, I just wanted to see for myself - it could be done, but you better have some serious machine shop skills!

I used the short ones, only slightly thicker than the brush plate - looks like Lionel installed them! I didn't try the longer ones but will on the next install - their advantage would be easier to do a final positioning in the brush plate hole to get perfect armature alignment.

 

GeoPeg posted:

I will be looking at the Harbor Freight drill press in person and up close later this/next week.

In the meantime, I was going to wait until my drill bits arrived and use the Dremel, but upon closer examination, my Dremel has quite a bit of runout, visually even more than my cordless drill, so.... I'm not a patient person sometimes - I grabbed the cordless drill and started drilling by hand, using my calibrated eyeball to judge entry angle!

I mic'd out the drill bit and the bearing - bit was 0.006" smaller than the OD of the bearing I was installing, so that worked like a charm - wiped a bit of epoxy around the ID of the new hole and pressed the bearing in place - then installed brush plate on motor, sans brushes, and tweaked until everything was free rolling. Things are now drying. BTW, I used gorilla glue epoxy instead of JB Weld, seems to dry harder than the Weld stuff, definitely quicker.

I got three different pairs of bearings from Jeff Kane, two were just oilite sleeves, one longer than the other, third was a flanged bearing which was a total bust! As others were telling me, there's no room for a flanged bearing. But at a buck a piece, I just wanted to see for myself - it could be done, but you better have some serious machine shop skills!

I used the short ones, only slightly thicker than the brush plate - looks like Lionel installed them! I didn't try the longer ones but will on the next install - their advantage would be easier to do a final positioning in the brush plate hole to get perfect armature alignment.

 

When your at Harbor Freight also look at a drill press vise as you will need one. There not that expensive. I have one of Harbor Freight drill press, they actually have two models. I bought the lower price one and have been very happy with it. 

Almost 2 decades ago, a friend was looking for a made in the USA benchtop drill press.  By then, Delta's tools were imported and I couldn't find any brand that was not an import.  Since then I lucked out and found an old Sears benchtop for $40 at a flea market.

Can't beat the Harbor Freight pricing.  I have bought a couple of items that eventually went into the trash, but I'm satisfied with most of my purchases.  They have a good return policy so if the benchtop press shows issues once you unpack, clean the preservative,  and check for alignment/runout, you can return it.  (besides, you get a free tape measure with a coupon ;-)

I use Dremel equivalents as real tools.  I could not build anything without the tool and a pile of cutoff discs.

I have four HF small drill presses, one large HF drill press (looks suspiciously like Craftsman), an 11" Sheldon lathe, 9" South Bend, small Benchmaster mill, and oxy-acetylene.  All tools, each with a purpose.

Certainly cannot speak for every chinese drill press sold at Harbor Freight but on the one I have the table is very hard to level in more than a left right orientation. As you rotate the table it is only perpendicular to the bit at one spot and only left to right not fore and aft or vise-versa .  This is very important when drilling thin brittle materials such as Bakelite. What happens just as the bit breaks through the material the two flutes do not break through together rather on breaks through first and sets up asymmetrical forces that often crack the material. As GRJohn mentioned stepping up bits helps, higher speeds help and when possible I clamp the piece to be drilled between facing and backing materials but often it is not possible to do so. In those cases I end up using tapered reams and a set of rat tail files that I cut the tang off and use in my drill press at it's slowest speed 66 rpm. The problem with using files and reams is you end up with a conical hole rather than a cylindrical hole.  My father when he retired went to machinist school just because he liked fabricating.   He ended up making one off reproduction parts for people restoring old autos, aircraft, boats etc. By the time he died, in the mid eighties he had built what amounted to a commercial machine shop in his back yard. I would have loved to buy my sisters and brother's part but could not afford to do so and all the equipment was sold off.  Except for a Bridgeport mill/drill,which my brother also had an interest in. If I need things to be really right I head to my mothers house.  You can mount a runout gauge on a rotating arm and measure a 360 degree circle on the table never seeing the gauge move.   And just like footprints on the moon,  MADE IN THE USA !       j

JohnActon posted:

Certainly cannot speak for every chinese drill press sold at Harbor Freight but on the one I have the table is very hard to level in more than a left right orientation. As you rotate the table it is only perpendicular to the bit at one spot and only left to right not fore and aft or vise-versa .  This is very important when drilling thin brittle materials such as Bakelite. What happens just as the bit breaks through the material the two flutes do not break through together rather on breaks through first and sets up asymmetrical forces that often crack the material. As GRJohn mentioned stepping up bits helps, higher speeds help and when possible I clamp the piece to be drilled between facing and backing materials but often it is not possible to do so. In those cases I end up using tapered reams and a set of rat tail files that I cut the tang off and use in my drill press at it's slowest speed 66 rpm. The problem with using files and reams is you end up with a conical hole rather than a cylindrical hole.  My father when he retired went to machinist school just because he liked fabricating.   He ended up making one off reproduction parts for people restoring old autos, aircraft, boats etc. By the time he died, in the mid eighties he had built what amounted to a commercial machine shop in his back yard. I would have loved to buy my sisters and brother's part but could not afford to do so and all the equipment was sold off.  Except for a Bridgeport mill/drill,which my brother also had an interest in. If I need things to be really right I head to my mothers house.  You can mount a runout gauge on a rotating arm and measure a 360 degree circle on the table never seeing the gauge move.   And just like footprints on the moon,  MADE IN THE USA !       j

I found on a lot of harbor freight items dealing with a adjustable table is that the screw to undo to rotate the table and lock it in position is that there is no washer. I have taken this screw of and put a washer between, problem solved. Look for this short coming.

Scoured the largest flea market in these parts, located in Hartville, OH. No joy on a drill press. Actually, two folks said they had 'em but didn't bring 'em! I got names & numbers, will check with them next week.

And as far as trains, it seems "Bob", whoever he is, has the market locked on Lionel. One vendor said "Every Saturday, if I have any Lionel, I just box 'em up and set them in the back of the van, and ol' Bob comes around and buys whatever I have. Hard to compete with Bob.... two other dealers had Lionel sets, but thought they had gold, so had to pass on their prices - I guess Bob didn't want them either 

RonH posted:
JohnActon posted:

Certainly cannot speak for every chinese drill press sold at Harbor Freight but on the one I have the table is very hard to level in more than a left right orientation. As you rotate the table it is only perpendicular to the bit at one spot and only left to right not fore and aft or vise-versa .  This is very important when drilling thin brittle materials such as Bakelite. What happens just as the bit breaks through the material the two flutes do not break through together rather on breaks through first and sets up asymmetrical forces that often crack the material. As GRJohn mentioned stepping up bits helps, higher speeds help and when possible I clamp the piece to be drilled between facing and backing materials but often it is not possible to do so. In those cases I end up using tapered reams and a set of rat tail files that I cut the tang off and use in my drill press at it's slowest speed 66 rpm. The problem with using files and reams is you end up with a conical hole rather than a cylindrical hole.  My father when he retired went to machinist school just because he liked fabricating.   He ended up making one off reproduction parts for people restoring old autos, aircraft, boats etc. By the time he died, in the mid eighties he had built what amounted to a commercial machine shop in his back yard. I would have loved to buy my sisters and brother's part but could not afford to do so and all the equipment was sold off.  Except for a Bridgeport mill/drill,which my brother also had an interest in. If I need things to be really right I head to my mothers house.  You can mount a runout gauge on a rotating arm and measure a 360 degree circle on the table never seeing the gauge move.   And just like footprints on the moon,  MADE IN THE USA !       j

I found on a lot of harbor freight items dealing with a adjustable table is that the screw to undo to rotate the table and lock it in position is that there is no washer. I have taken this screw of and put a washer between, problem solved. Look for this short coming.

Ron, no problem locking the table it's tight enough that you have to grab it with both hands to turn it when unlocked. the problem is with the hollow post that the table rests and rotates on is not true. This is a big machine not what would normally be considered a hobby tool but perhaps a handyman tool. I have two chinese drill presses one floor machine and one a bench top, basically a floor press with a short column. Both of these suffer from the same problems though only one came from HF they likely came from the same factory.  j

But, are they intended for 3/16" drill bits? Apparently not, since the Dremel chuck will not accommodate drill bits that large.

Drill bits with turned down shanks are fairly common. I am certain Geopeg can figure out how to use his set without damaging his Dremel. I think there are Dremel burrs that are larger diameter than 3/16. He is enlarging a hole in a fiber board brush plate, that is all.

I think a lot of people are trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill.

And as far as trains, it seems "Bob", whoever he is, has the market locked on Lionel. One vendor said "Every Saturday, if I have any Lionel, I just box 'em up and set them in the back of the van, and ol' Bob comes around and buys whatever I have. Hard to compete with Bob.... two other dealers had Lionel sets, but thought they had gold, so had to pass on their prices - I guess Bob didn't want them either

That is a great relationship to have. Bob must buy absolutely everything, and always give a fair price.

C W Burfle posted:

And as far as trains, it seems "Bob", whoever he is, has the market locked on Lionel. One vendor said "Every Saturday, if I have any Lionel, I just box 'em up and set them in the back of the van, and ol' Bob comes around and buys whatever I have. Hard to compete with Bob.... two other dealers had Lionel sets, but thought they had gold, so had to pass on their prices - I guess Bob didn't want them either

That is a great relationship to have. Bob must buy absolutely everything, and always give a fair price.

Yes and Yes!!! That's the impression I got when talking to the vendor. He seemed quite pleased with that arrangement, and why not? Minimum fuss, no price labels to stick on everything, and good $. Good on him!

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