Dummies are really Dummy.....

Would it kill them to put a cab in? I could see not having a crew in a trailing loco. How about some lights too?

Tint the windows, like the real locomotives tend to be.

Rusty

The Lionel bean counters strike again.

Boxcars with windows and should be priced accordingly.

Pete

Well prototypically speaking, rear units in a consist don't have crews (unless they are deadheading which is very common again), or lights on. I always pulled the crew figures out and turned the lights off if it was an option, otherwise I removed the lights too. If you want the sound and smoke or need the extra pulling power, just buy another powered unit. I know a lot of people don't agree with it but it does make sense to leave all that stuff out of a non-powered engine.   

Unfortunately, It has been like that for a While [Since the turn of the Century]! I have the Old TMCC RS11 dummies and they were like that. The PRR Coal Set with the GP30's were also like that. What Bothers me the most is if you want to upgrade and add at least power pick ups, its a real pita to get the parts. At least MTH offers easy to install power kits for their Dummy units.

Not having figures or lights makes sense, but I agree that they should either include an interior or at least tint the windows.  I can see where this might not be as much of an issue in a smaller scale, but a loco with windows this big is going to invite inspection.

Just checked the retail price, and I think an interior is not too much to ask.   

For $250 more I would get the powered unit and remove the crewmen.  Maybe change the cab number.  Or sell the inside motor guts and ckt brds and be left with a dummy, lights, and pickups.

I've never seen crewmen in the trailing unit on trains I have watched. 

I am just the opposite about dummies. I don't like them. I like that Williams offers dummy upgrade kits for their locos. I wish others would or at least make it easy to convert. I bought a Railking powered chassis to upgrade an 027 size f3 and it wasnt possible because MTH uses a completely different chassis for the dummies.

Back in the Early 2000s Lionel Alco FAs, F3s, and F7s trailing As came with everything except motors and motor drivers. Lights, command couplers, smoke, cab details all included.

Pete

There's no Cab interior in the regular ES44s, only the diecast one. All thats in there is the grey motor shield. If you gotta have it so the cab doesnt look empty its PN 630-8732-197 and it'll cost you one whole dollar to fix your complaint.

A switchable headlight would be nice.  The dummy could be in the back of the train in a distributed power configuration.  Are the lights on the end of the locomotive which is at the rear of the train lighted in this configuration?

An old Military saying'..  BLUF'..."Bottom Line Up Front"   Nickle And Dime' the Hobbyist !  If they want it', they have no choice'...  At the cost of these 'dummies, they should come loaded with the exception of motors'...

Dominic Mazoch posted:

A switchable headlight would be nice.  The dummy could be in the back of the train in a distributed power configuration.  Are the lights on the end of the locomotive which is at the rear of the train lighted in this configuration?

Yes the rear headlight is on DIM as a marker, but how many people in this hobby run a DP train?  Maybe on a big Club Layout 

Years ago the Atlas dummies had pick up rollers and lights inside with toggles to turn them off. They ditched all that too, although many still had the pick up rollers because they just used powered trucks with gears and all in their dummies. 

It's very easy to remove a shell on a dummy since their is nothing inside, so just take some black paint or even a sharpie and swipe the windows a cpl times. OR spray them with dull-cote to fog them up. Windows in intermediate units in a consist usually have very dirty windows whether they are tinted or not. 

826 dummy no crew or lights. windows dirty, sun shades down.

802 powered no crew, lights off, sunshades down, windows dirty

800 powered lead unit. sunshades up, clean windows and you still dont see the crew clearly even though they are in there

I'm confused what you were expecting. The catalog said no lights or electrocouplers, so why would there be pickup rollers? You wouldn't want crew figures and the only "cab interior" in the powered units is the plastic that covers the can motor.

I think Lionel produced exactly what was catalogued and I'm excited to pick mine up!

Will Ebbert posted:

I'm confused what you were expecting. The catalog said no lights or electrocouplers, so why would there be pickup rollers? You wouldn't want crew figures and the only "cab interior" in the powered units is the plastic that covers the can motor.

I think Lionel produced exactly what was catalogued and I'm excited to pick mine up!

I think you are confused. The OP is not saying that Lionel is lying to or mis leading people. He is talking about "what it has come to" so to speak. I have a Lionel TMCC F3 AA  Powered & Non powered set. The dummy has pick up rollers, electro coupler, smoke unit, cab lights, front marker lights, head light, smk on-off switch ,prgm-run switch, It is also weighted. I can't tell the powered from the dummy at a glance. Nick

With the LionDrive revisions circa 2012, all of the Legacy dual-motored locos I've examined had back-drivable gears.  As a consequence they double-head beautifully.  Even if the trailing unit totally went offline, the lead unit could pull it (albeit with a lot of strain.)  With can motors, the extra current draw should be a little more than one amp.

Bottom line, for an extra $250 a second powered unit is a no-brainer.  If nothing else, years from now it will come in handy as a parts source!  The only caveat (and true of dummies as well)... how long is your layout?  Is your loop and the trailing train long enough to warrant almost 36" of loco?

There is an ES44 shell on the bay now for 50 bucks. Make a frame, add a pair of trucks, fuel tank, and couplers and you have dummy for under 100 bucks.

Pete

rockstars1989 posted:

Will Ebbert posted:

I'm confused what you were expecting. The catalog said no lights or electrocouplers, so why would there be pickup rollers? You wouldn't want crew figures and the only "cab interior" in the powered units is the plastic that covers the can motor.

I think Lionel produced exactly what was catalogued and I'm excited to pick mine up!

I think you are confused. The OP is not saying that Lionel is lying to or mis leading people. He is talking about "what it has come to" so to speak. I have a Lionel TMCC F3 AA  Powered & Non powered set. The dummy has pick up rollers, electro coupler, smoke unit, cab lights, front marker lights, head light, smk on-off switch ,prgm-run switch, It is also weighted. I can't tell the powered from the dummy at a glance. Nick

I think you are mistaken in the fact that dummy locomotives that come in aa sets have always come with more features than one's sold separately. Some of Lionel's recent aa sets have even come with two powered units but only one with sound, otherwise being identical to the unit up front. Lionel's separately sold dummy freight locomotives have almost always come with few features, the main exception being superbass ac6000s.