Bob Harris posted:
CBQ_Bill posted:

Hi Scott Mann:

I called 3RD Rail Sunset's phone number on Monday & briefly spoke with Shani (not sure of spelling).  I was ready to buy another E5A & E5B set if one of the 2 available had names different than E5A Silver Carrier (AirConditioner) & E5B Silver Power (Generator).  But alas, your 2 remaining sets have the same Silver names.  

You said above "that it is a good thing that you didn't let the Silver names out . . . because they were wrong".  

Locomotive models are as much a work of art as they are prototypical replicates of the 1/1 scale object.  Your Phase II tooling gets an A+ for nailing the prototypical details of E5 Phase II.  However, in the slavish insistence on sticking to the prototypical names for Phase II, the spirit & essence of the CB&Q E5A are sorely missing from your product.  

I looked through my e-mail O-Gauge file tonight through e-mails between us from 2003 & your recent 3RD Rail/GDD newsletters.  The first mention of the CB&Q E5 occurred on 04/29/2018 in your MAY-2018 newsletter with a photo of Illinois Railway Museum's EMC/EMD Phase I CB&Q E5A #9911A Silver in its shimmering stainless steel (SS) finish with SS side fluting, black nose stripes, black grill stripes, E5 model plate, sans truck skirts, and with name SILVER PILOT on its shimmering SS sides.   This photo was repeated in 11 more newsletters from May-2018 through MAR-2019, a total of 12 times.  Between mid MAR-2019 and now, 3RD Rail issued 5 more newsletters with absolutely no mention of the E6/E5 project & without the photo of SILVER PILOT at IRM.  

The inclusion of SILVER PILOT's photo implied that you would include this road name in an E5 Phase I model with shimmering simulated SS finish with the details from the photo mentioned above.  The absence of SILVER PILOT & imitation SS finish in your final product is misleading at best & false advertising at worst.  

You say that your model is a Phase II E5. Okay, I can live with that, I am not a slave to prototypical details if the spirit & essence of the prototype is captured in 3-rail O-gauge.  I love your Phase II tooling and you get an A+ for it.  It has the side fluting, the correct Mars & headlight housing (which is different from the standard E6 housing), slanted nose, closed & open-with-coupler pilot options.  As a bonus, your tooling includes the removable truck skirts.  This tooling is a 1st in 3-rail O-gauge !!! 

I was expecting a shimmering imitation SS plated finish similar to what Lionel did with their 1980 Texas Zephyr F3AA set and their recent E7 AA set.  Instead, it has silver paint (the most striking feature of the E5 is the shimmering SS exterior).  I was wanting the E5 AB models' finish to match my 60' scale (Lionel, K-Line, Williams, & MTH) & 70' scale (MTH) plated aluminum Zephyr cars, but your silver paint job does not match those.  I wanted the E5 AB models to stand out in shimmering plated imitation SS when displayed along side my silver painted CB&Q F3s (MTH & Williams), E6s (MTH, decorated in an outstanding E7 livery with E6 plates & fictional  #9997 A&B), E7s (Williams), and E8s (K-Line).  Instead of standing out, the E5s blend in like nothing any more special.  

The window & grill nose string in black, the BR herald, the Zephyr Gothic letting, & EMC/EMD builders plate are wonderful details.  The model should have included the E5 model plates because this is in your photo of SILVER PILOT at IRM, most Q fans will want this after seeing SILVER PILOT at IRM, and their are no commercially available E5 model plate decals commercially available for your customers to obtain & apply on our own.

Last, the final insult is that I am stuck with the lack-luster name Silver Carrier, which is my least favorite prototypical E5 name.  I think of Carrier AIR CONDITIONERS when I see this name.  If you had included useful updates about available Silver Names in your newsletters, I would have selected E5A, Silver Arrow, Silver Swift, or Silver Clipper and been much happier living with this model.  By the way, there are no commercially available O-scale decals with alternative CB&Q E5 Silver Names of your customers to obtain & apply on our own.  

Are your E5B models truly Phase I or are they really Phase II B units with Phase I Silver Names ?  Besides Silver Power, what other names were used on your E5B models ?

I also did not realize from your sparse detail in your newsletters & website that there was an option to order two (2) E5A units instead of an E5A/E5B set.  If this choice had been stated in your materials, I would have opted for two (2) E5A units with 2 separate Silver Names.  

I would be a much happier 3rd Rail E5 customer if you could modify (at your expense) my E5A model to Silver Speed #9910A to match the E5B Silver Power (which is #9911B).    

Or, modify one of your remaining E5A & E5B sets to SILVER PILOT #9911A & SILVER MATE (#9911B), send them to Chicagoland Hobby or me in exchange for the set that I have.  

I have one # of each of your CB&Q steam engines, 2 of your CB&Q wood waycars (cabooses for non-Q fans), 3 of your 70' CB&Q heavyweight cars, wood coal tour, and several sets of your Little People figures.  I love all of these items.  They capture the spirit & essence of the CB&Q.  Some of the BRHS folks have told me that some of the details on #5632, #3007, & #4978 are incorrect, but I still love them.  

Please correct a set of E5 models with Silver Name(s) that I can live with and be proud to display at upcoming BRHS meets.  

CB&Q Bill

 

 

Good lord after reading all that you  dinged and donged with you must of lost 5 days of sleep. I for one think you want some thing personally just for you with names, and other items you mentioned.

to matched all the models from other builders you have to match these to them. you must be from Pluto because it does not work that way. An importer can not begin to match all that has been done from1912 onward. I think Scott for 699.99 imported some fantastic models, and if you had paid 3K for these you would still be winning .

I have my issues with the ones I have, which I helped put the design package together for the Mopac versions and I and Scott  talked to the builder on 3 different occasions and the still missed the mark on some items. So what can we do. You just move on and just play trains its that simple .

Next time I will try not to be//////^^^^^ ***

BH

Hi Bob:

No, I do not want something unique just for me.  I really wanted a model of the prototype locomotive whose photo was shown in 12 3RD Rail newsletters & their website. It is quite reasonable to expect the product to conform to the sales description.

CB&Q Bill 

CB&Q Bill (CBQ_Bill)

EVERYWHERE WEST  along the  WAY OF THE ZEPHYRS !!!!

Disciple of ZEPHYRUS

Subscriber: OGR & CTT Magazines

Member:     LCCA, LOTS, & TCA-Midwest 

                    Burlington Route Historical Society

                    Illinois Railway Museum

 

VidKidz posted:

For the love of all things unholy, re-decal to SILVER EXPRESS or SILVER BULLET or whatever SILVER name checks your boxes or just find a set of the Lionel E7s on Ebay .. to harp on and on about it being called the SILVER CARRIER or whatever it is is plain crazy.

 

VidKidz:

Decals for this conversion are not commercially available.  The Lionel E7 AAs are long gone.

CB&Q Bill

CB&Q Bill (CBQ_Bill)

EVERYWHERE WEST  along the  WAY OF THE ZEPHYRS !!!!

Disciple of ZEPHYRUS

Subscriber: OGR & CTT Magazines

Member:     LCCA, LOTS, & TCA-Midwest 

                    Burlington Route Historical Society

                    Illinois Railway Museum

 

GG1 4877 posted:

I hope mine arrives as Silver Surfer!

There was a CZ car names Silver SURF, either owned by CB&Q or WP.  

Now, your idea is great because an E5A Silver SURFER would be a natural companion for an E5B Silver POWER !!!

Maybe this would encourage the young Marvel & Avenger fans into the O-gauge hobby !!!

CB&Q Bill (CBQ_Bill)

EVERYWHERE WEST  along the  WAY OF THE ZEPHYRS !!!!

Disciple of ZEPHYRUS

Subscriber: OGR & CTT Magazines

Member:     LCCA, LOTS, & TCA-Midwest 

                    Burlington Route Historical Society

                    Illinois Railway Museum

 

jonnyspeed posted:
Simon Winter posted:
jonnyspeed posted: 

I just wish people were as critical and demanding of sound in O as they are details and paint colors.

 

Who cares what kind of NOISE it makes if it doesn't LOOK like it SHOULD. It's a model, NOT a sound system! I want my money going toward a CORRECT model. If I want sound I'll turn on the stereo.

Simon

Me! You do what you like, but I get my opinion as well. Considering the amount I spend on my hobby and the fact that I'm still in my 40's I'd say my opinion is valid.

Describes your attitude perfectly. So everybody gets to pay for all the electronic CRAP that you want. A basic model without all the junk costs both of us the same amount. Your way, EVERYONE that wants a basic engine has to pay for junk that YOU want.

What if I want battery power and you want DCC? Would you like to pay for a Loco with battery power installed as standard, only to have to rip it out and put in DCC.

Simon

SANTIAGOP23 posted:

Ball bearings everywhere! 

Lionel be like “what’s that?”

<Photo Removed>

Lol. 

I give it to Scott for going to ball bearings (from an internalized idea that ball bearings = better), but I'm not sure I would hate on Lionel, or anyone else for that matter, for not using them on our model trains...

My question to the group is...has anyone actually done any mechanical study with hard numbers and determined what actual benefit these ball-bearings have done for our models and whether or not it really matters at the types of force our small trains actually encounter?

DaveJfr0 posted:
SANTIAGOP23 posted:

Ball bearings everywhere! 

Lionel be like “what’s that?”

<Photo Removed>

Lol. 

I give it to Scott for going to ball bearings (from an internalized idea that ball bearings = better), but I'm not sure I would hate on Lionel, or anyone else for that matter, for not using them on our model trains...

My question to the group is...has anyone actually done any mechanical study with hard numbers and determined what actual benefit these ball-bearings have done for our models and whether or not it really matters at the types of force our small trains actually encounter?

The age old argument bearings are better than bushings.  I would be interest in the question.  The good news is that I was able to purchase their last CB&Q A & B last night.  Thank you Scott.  I started out the week purchasing the Santa Fe A & B.  Boy, did this topic get me in financial trouble.

Bryant

TCA 18-73717

After a long, long wait this beauties popped up here in Sweden. CB&Q E5A Silver Carrier and E5B silver Mate.  My first order from Sunset and it surely won't be the last if anything else of interest goes in to production. In my world these engines exceeds expectation.  Well done Scott and to all the others who was involved in the research to make this models.  The only thing that could be improved is the horrible customs fee that we have to pay for anything imported from outside EU.  QSI Titan sounds is new to me and I'm a bit on the learning curve here. 

CB&Q E5A and B

In comparison with an Atlas O scale CZ car.  The silver colors harmonise quite well.  As an input on the previous discussion about chrome plated editions of CZ cars from other manufactures, I don't think chrome or nickel plating on models turns out well. I have and old E5A and E5B in HO scale from Hallmark that came nickel plated. After adding decals to them I spray painted them with a semi gloss lacquer to make them look decent.

E5B and Atlas

I guess this is the summer of the E5's. A couple of weeks ago the lastest Burlington Bulletin came in the post as a forerunner to the models. Interesting history of the early diesels and the design process of the E5's. 

Bulletine E5

 

Attachments

Photos (3)
Simon Winter posted:
jonnyspeed posted:
Simon Winter posted:
jonnyspeed posted: 

I just wish people were as critical and demanding of sound in O as they are details and paint colors.

 

Who cares what kind of NOISE it makes if it doesn't LOOK like it SHOULD. It's a model, NOT a sound system! I want my money going toward a CORRECT model. If I want sound I'll turn on the stereo.

Simon

Me! You do what you like, but I get my opinion as well. Considering the amount I spend on my hobby and the fact that I'm still in my 40's I'd say my opinion is valid.

Describes your attitude perfectly. So everybody gets to pay for all the electronic CRAP that you want. A basic model without all the junk costs both of us the same amount. Your way, EVERYONE that wants a basic engine has to pay for junk that YOU want.

What if I want battery power and you want DCC? Would you like to pay for a Loco with battery power installed as standard, only to have to rip it out and put in DCC.

Simon

You might want to take the time to actually read my comments before criticizing me there Sparky....

My advice to Scott was to eliminate the electronics all together so DC people were happy, the price was lower, and DCC people (like me) could install the decoder of our choice.

"I’m a 3rd Rail fan, but I have never understood the decision to go with a hardwired decoder. Especially QSI. With Most two railers being DC the logical choice would have been to just offer a DC model and let the DCC folks install their own. Better yet do what Atlas did and install a DCC motherboard with a DC shorting plug that can be replaced with a decoder if desired." -From my first post on this thread  :-o

So why don't you stop YELLING at me long enough to realize that I am advocating for you. Bet you feel silly now! Or are you just that grouchy? Maybe because your trains have no sound... Studies show (probably) that people who's models have sound are happier with their hobby. LOL J/K

-Jonathan

 

Follow the progress of my S Scale Hi-Rail layout Here

Participate in the Facebook S Scale community Here

DaveJfr0 posted:
SANTIAGOP23 posted:

Ball bearings everywhere! 

Lionel be like “what’s that?”

<Photo Removed>

Lol. 

I give it to Scott for going to ball bearings (from an internalized idea that ball bearings = better), but I'm not sure I would hate on Lionel, or anyone else for that matter, for not using them on our model trains...

My question to the group is...has anyone actually done any mechanical study with hard numbers and determined what actual benefit these ball-bearings have done for our models and whether or not it really matters at the types of force our small trains actually encounter?

Dave they make a huge difference! You should be able to see it from the smoothness of the E9 compared to the F7/FP7! All my high end brass locos have them! And protocraft’s cars also come w ball bearings, even tunned PSC can’t keep up...

 

I suppose a side-by-side video demonstration could show a smoother slow-start or removal of jerkiness, but then someone could say the decoder settings would have a factor in this as well, even if they're the same decoder, drivetrain, and motor.

Unfortunately, I don't have easy access to the majority of my trains and my layout.  I don't even have my DCC system with me, so my DCC giraffe car is going to have to wait, lol. I will have to wait unless someone else cares to explore this avenue.  Still curious if there is recorded mechanical improvement. Not trying to hate on 3rd Rail; I'm just really overall curious.

jonnyspeed posted:
Simon Winter posted:
jonnyspeed posted:
Simon Winter posted:
jonnyspeed posted: 

I just wish people were as critical and demanding of sound in O as they are details and paint colors.

 

Who cares what kind of NOISE it makes if it doesn't LOOK like it SHOULD. It's a model, NOT a sound system! I want my money going toward a CORRECT model. If I want sound I'll turn on the stereo.

Simon

Me! You do what you like, but I get my opinion as well. Considering the amount I spend on my hobby and the fact that I'm still in my 40's I'd say my opinion is valid.

Describes your attitude perfectly. So everybody gets to pay for all the electronic CRAP that you want. A basic model without all the junk costs both of us the same amount. Your way, EVERYONE that wants a basic engine has to pay for junk that YOU want.

What if I want battery power and you want DCC? Would you like to pay for a Loco with battery power installed as standard, only to have to rip it out and put in DCC.

Simon

You might want to take the time to actually read my comments before criticizing me there Sparky....

My advice to Scott was to eliminate the electronics all together so DC people were happy, the price was lower, and DCC people (like me) could install the decoder of our choice.

"I’m a 3rd Rail fan, but I have never understood the decision to go with a hardwired decoder. Especially QSI. With Most two railers being DC the logical choice would have been to just offer a DC model and let the DCC folks install their own. Better yet do what Atlas did and install a DCC motherboard with a DC shorting plug that can be replaced with a decoder if desired." -From my first post on this thread  :-o

So why don't you stop YELLING at me long enough to realize that I am advocating for you. Bet you feel silly now! Or are you just that grouchy? Maybe because your trains have no sound... Studies show (probably) that people who's models have sound are happier with their hobby. LOL J/K

The problem is the price would not be lower.  The builder would charge Scott the same whether or not there is a decoder installed.

DaveJfr0 posted:

I suppose a side-by-side video demonstration could show a smoother slow-start or removal of jerkiness, but then someone could say the decoder settings would have a factor in this as well, even if they're the same decoder, drivetrain, and motor.

Unfortunately, I don't have easy access to the majority of my trains and my layout.  I don't even have my DCC system with me, so my DCC giraffe car is going to have to wait, lol. I will have to wait unless someone else cares to explore this avenue.  Still curious if there is recorded mechanical improvement. Not trying to hate on 3rd Rail; I'm just really overall curious.

There is another reason, maintainability.  As locomotives get heavier the lateral stress on the bushing/bearing increases increasing the probability that the bushing will fail at some future date.  Using a standard 2x5x2.5 ball bearing reduces the cost and the work involved to replace the bearing in the future, whereas even finding a compatible bushing is unlikely as the builders suppliers provide unique bushings even changing between runs of the same locomotive.

Belle Epoque posted:

...

In comparison with an Atlas O scale CZ car.  The silver colors harmonise quite well.  As an input on the previous discussion about chrome plated editions of CZ cars from other manufactures, I don't think chrome or nickel plating on models turns out well. I have and old E5A and E5B in HO scale from Hallmark that came nickel plated. After adding decals to them I spray painted them with a semi gloss lacquer to make them look decent.

 

... 

And this is why they are painted.  I would have preferred the stick on stainless foil used on the ATSF units but the builder said no (unless you give us more money).

I think the chrome bumper look is terrible and is nothing like stainless and as you note nickel plating is inconsistent and changes over time.

rdunniii posted:
Belle Epoque posted:

...

In comparison with an Atlas O scale CZ car.  The silver colors harmonise quite well.  As an input on the previous discussion about chrome plated editions of CZ cars from other manufactures, I don't think chrome or nickel plating on models turns out well. I have and old E5A and E5B in HO scale from Hallmark that came nickel plated. After adding decals to them I spray painted them with a semi gloss lacquer to make them look decent.

 

... 

And this is why they are painted.  I would have preferred the stick on stainless foil used on the ATSF units but the builder said no (unless you give us more money).

I think the chrome bumper look is terrible and is nothing like stainless and as you note nickel plating is inconsistent and changes over time.

I’d be concerned how the stick on material ages - that is, will it loose its “adhesiveness” and begin to peal off of the engine when it gets older. Maybe I’m wrong .... hope so for those that have  bought. 

 

TrainBub posted:
rdunniii posted:
Belle Epoque posted:

...

In comparison with an Atlas O scale CZ car.  The silver colors harmonise quite well.  As an input on the previous discussion about chrome plated editions of CZ cars from other manufactures, I don't think chrome or nickel plating on models turns out well. I have and old E5A and E5B in HO scale from Hallmark that came nickel plated. After adding decals to them I spray painted them with a semi gloss lacquer to make them look decent.

 

... 

And this is why they are painted.  I would have preferred the stick on stainless foil used on the ATSF units but the builder said no (unless you give us more money).

I think the chrome bumper look is terrible and is nothing like stainless and as you note nickel plating is inconsistent and changes over time.

I’d be concerned how the stick on material ages - that is, will it loose its “adhesiveness” and begin to peal off of the engine when it gets older. Maybe I’m wrong .... hope so for those that have  bought. 

 

I love this, talking about longevity of trains and stickers like a group of young guys with great bodies, hair, no kids & a great bounce back ability from misbehaving the night before.

Somehow I think the stickers, paint and finish will be OK after we are done on earths train room.  I for one am looking forward to my Santa Fe and my CB&Q coming in today and Wednesday.

By the way, if there is discoloration and peeling stickers... we will call it patina, and be proud of it.

Bryant

TCA 18-73717

Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:
TrainBub posted:
rdunniii posted:
Belle Epoque posted:

...

In comparison with an Atlas O scale CZ car.  The silver colors harmonise quite well.  As an input on the previous discussion about chrome plated editions of CZ cars from other manufactures, I don't think chrome or nickel plating on models turns out well. I have and old E5A and E5B in HO scale from Hallmark that came nickel plated. After adding decals to them I spray painted them with a semi gloss lacquer to make them look decent.

 

... 

And this is why they are painted.  I would have preferred the stick on stainless foil used on the ATSF units but the builder said no (unless you give us more money).

I think the chrome bumper look is terrible and is nothing like stainless and as you note nickel plating is inconsistent and changes over time.

I’d be concerned how the stick on material ages - that is, will it loose its “adhesiveness” and begin to peal off of the engine when it gets older. Maybe I’m wrong .... hope so for those that have  bought. 

 

I love this, talking about longevity of trains and stickers like a group of young guys with great bodies, hair, no kids & a great bounce back ability from misbehaving the night before.

Somehow I think the stickers, paint and finish will be OK after we are done on earths train room.  I for one am looking forward to my Santa Fe and my CB&Q coming in today and Wednesday.

By the way, if there is discoloration and peeling stickers... we will call it patina, and be proud of it.

Each of us are different. We make choices. Yours may be different than mine. That’s great. Enjoy !!!  Just keep reserving/buying to meet Scott’s minimums. 😬👍👌🤗😁🤣🤣🤣🤣.  Then we all get the trains we want. 🌈😁

TrainBub posted:
Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:
TrainBub posted:
rdunniii posted:
Belle Epoque posted:

...

In comparison with an Atlas O scale CZ car.  The silver colors harmonise quite well.  As an input on the previous discussion about chrome plated editions of CZ cars from other manufactures, I don't think chrome or nickel plating on models turns out well. I have and old E5A and E5B in HO scale from Hallmark that came nickel plated. After adding decals to them I spray painted them with a semi gloss lacquer to make them look decent.

 

... 

And this is why they are painted.  I would have preferred the stick on stainless foil used on the ATSF units but the builder said no (unless you give us more money).

I think the chrome bumper look is terrible and is nothing like stainless and as you note nickel plating is inconsistent and changes over time.

I’d be concerned how the stick on material ages - that is, will it loose its “adhesiveness” and begin to peal off of the engine when it gets older. Maybe I’m wrong .... hope so for those that have  bought. 

 

I love this, talking about longevity of trains and stickers like a group of young guys with great bodies, hair, no kids & a great bounce back ability from misbehaving the night before.

Somehow I think the stickers, paint and finish will be OK after we are done on earths train room.  I for one am looking forward to my Santa Fe and my CB&Q coming in today and Wednesday.

By the way, if there is discoloration and peeling stickers... we will call it patina, and be proud of it.

Each of us are different. We make choices. Yours may be different than mine. That’s great. Enjoy !!!  Just keep reserving/buying to meet Scott’s minimums. 😬👍👌🤗😁🤣🤣🤣🤣.  Then we all get the trains we want. 🌈😁

Exactly my sentiments.  My last exposure to 3rd rail was about 25 years ago when I bought a brass Dash9.  The opening of the box and first look was holy moment in our house.  Since then I have really appreciated Scott's & his staff.  And what 3rd rail does to bring us these beautiful examples.  I like the idea of getting all the trains we want.  When you think your done, another fine train comes up.  It never ends.  I'm OK with that.

 

Bryant

TCA 18-73717

Just received my SFWBs.  I set the I’d to 2 different numbers.  Run fine as separate.  Can’t set As lash up.  Even as one car.  I can run as team with same engine ID.  Also only B unit smoke unit makes noise.  No smoke on either.

The engines are configured diesel, cab-1, RS5.  My 1st 3rd rail.  Is something not set right or do I not recognize a feature not available?

Bryant

TCA 18-73717

jonnyspeed posted
 

So why don't you stop YELLING at me long enough to realize that I am advocating for you. Bet you feel silly now! Or are you just that grouchy? Maybe because your trains have no sound... Studies show (probably) that people who's models have sound are happier with their hobby. LOL J/K

Better go see a Doctor if the printed words are yelling at you, you have problems! As for needing YOU as an advocate, I hope I never get that desperate. Where do you find your studies, Mad Magazine?

Sorry I didn't see your first comments....maybe we are not that far apart, but I still don't need sound!

See ya Speedy

Sparky (aka Simon) 

Not an E6 guy.  But I do have opinions.

One - I always thought the E6 shared a windshield contour with the E7 and F3?

Two - I prefer nickel plating for ATSF Diesel sides, and either anodized or polished aluminum for simulted Budd cars.  Just me.

Three - as a one-time mechanic for the SDMRR Museum, I rarely found bronze truck bearings worn out.  If you run one of the Lionel models with bronze bearings, you will have to run eight hours a day five days a week for a decade before I would have to replace axles and bearings.

But I did put ball bearings in my "Log Mallet" - found no improvement in running at all, but discovered that mis-aligning a ball bearing even a teeny bit causes serious friction increase.  Equalized trucks would need gimballed journal bearings.  Press-fit would only work on unsprung trucks and perfect track.

Four - modern electronics is priced to recover development costs.  Once you pass some large number of units, it costs more to pack and ship stuff than it does to make it.  If most of Scott's customers want, say, QSI, it is cheaper for him and his customers to just put it in all products.  I bet a stripped model would be more!

So just snip out the QSI (whatever that is) and put it on eBay.  You will be $ ahead!

Again, opinion.

bob2 posted:

Not an E6 guy.  But I do have opinions.

One - I always thought the E6 shared a windshield contour with the E7 and F3?

Two - I prefer nickel plating for ATSF Diesel sides, and either anodized or polished aluminum for simulted Budd cars.  Just me.

Three - as a one-time mechanic for the SDMRR Museum, I rarely found bronze truck bearings worn out.  If you run one of the Lionel models with bronze bearings, you will have to run eight hours a day five days a week for a decade before I would have to replace axles and bearings.

But I did put ball bearings in my "Log Mallet" - found no improvement in running at all, but discovered that mis-aligning a ball bearing even a teeny bit causes serious friction increase.  Equalized trucks would need gimballed journal bearings.  Press-fit would only work on unsprung trucks and perfect track.

Four - modern electronics is priced to recover development costs.  Once you pass some large number of units, it costs more to pack and ship stuff than it does to make it.  If most of Scott's customers want, say, QSI, it is cheaper for him and his customers to just put it in all products.  I bet a stripped model would be more!

So just snip out the QSI (whatever that is) and put it on eBay.  You will be $ ahead!

Again, opinion.

Bob, interesting that you mention the windshield contours. E units and F units had different windshields... The Fs are taller and steeper in angle... 

In my opinion the design team missed the mark on the E5/E6 windshield sculpt.... I pointed it out on my corrections, but it didn’t get through. I was more concerned with the minutiae of the unique E5 details... I’m sorry I didn’t push it... it does bother me... but I rather focus on the positive, which is the overwhelming majority of te project 

Keys E1...

013D2D75-5A69-4D35-9A21-FF398E885314

 

Attachments

Photos (1)

Dave, 

I know what you mean, but you can’t use LEDs w parabolic reflector as the light is projected forward... and the effect just isn’t as convincing to me...

I also like to model engine room lights, and 1.5v bulbs are just perfect for that... can’t do that w LEDs either...

1.5v in my PSC S-4 with a scratch built parabolic reflector

In my experience, if the voltage and set up is right there is no reason why HQ Japanese miniatronics 1.5v bulbs won’t last for many many years

Just my personal preference 

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We went to roller bearings on all axles to reduce drag on the diesel mechanism. The earlier engines suffered from too much drag and this solved this problem with what I saw as dramatic improvement.

True, if axles are not aligned with the bearing it makes things worse, but since the trucks are die-cast the geometry is very true. The small amount of equalization from sprung journals doesn't seem to bother the overall effect. 

As for the QSI or a plug-in DC module. You are right. It's cheaper to just give everyone the same system, the same wiring harness, the same everything. We did offer our F7s I think with or without DCC and we had 5 takers for DC and 195 for DCC. So even if people aren't going to keep the QSI system in their model, they want it in there perhaps for re-sale. So we stopped asking. The factory does a lot of QC while making these models, and giving them different variations of the same type model confused them and us. So we try to keep it as simple as possible. QSI is a robust system with great sounds and features. We have very few failures after delivery. As for support, we handle that.

Keep having fun...

 

 

 

 

 

SANTIAGOP23 posted:Bob, interesting that you mention the windshield contours. E units and F units had different windshields... The Fs are taller and steeper in angle... 

 

 

 

Santiago,

I agree that the early E's up through E6 had different cabs, but I have some drawings of the F and E7 cabs, and I don't see a lick of difference anywhere. The angle of the windshield is not marked, but they sure look the same to me. You could take a cab off one and graft it on the other.

I'd post the drawings, but there is that copyright thing.

My contention is the late E's are the same as the F's except the F9 (headlights are oriented dead vertical).

Simon

Adams E7s 002I did use an F7 nose on one of my E7s.  It pleases me.  The roof and trucks are Adams, the sides are my first attempt in brass.  right now I am trying to get some E7 sides cast in aluminum and bronze.  I think I will vote for windshield contours being the same from about E5 through F7, including the FT.

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SANTIAGOP23 posted:
bob2 posted:

Not an E6 guy.  But I do have opinions.

 

Bob, interesting that you mention the windshield contours. E units and F units had different windshields... The Fs are taller and steeper in angle... 

Santiago, I have been thinking about this, trying to figure out what gave you that idea.  Perhaps it was the 1949 production change in the mounting rubber?

Actually, prototype E and F units had identical windshields from 1937 until the end of production.  There was a different method of mounting the glass, which -- on E-units -- started with the first E8, in August, 1949, and -- on F-units -- also changed in mid-1949, early in production of the F7.  The "old" mounting used internal rubber gaskets inside the window frame, while the later version had an external grommet-style rubber mount and it looks bigger.  the appearance on both the inside and the outside changed with the addition of the larger rubber mount.  But, the glass was actually the same size and shape on all EMD streamlined cab units.

Tom

 

Superintendent, High Plains Division (O Gauge) 

The Panhandle & Santa Fe Railway Co.

Lone Star Hi-Railers

Santa Fe, All the Way

Hi Santiago,

 I assume you achieved closer coupling of your E-5s by simply turning around the coupler mounts on both units.  Doing so worked for all of the E-6s on the Rockford O Scalers layout.  

We also put a San Juan coupler on one of the units which results in about 1/8” reduction of the open space and the the rest is taken up by the reversed coupler mounts.  This arrangement works fine operationally on our 88” radius curves and the diaphragms are usually lightly touchingly and swiveling on the curves.  In short, a big improvement!

 

41A406F2-1538-425E-83CE-550B1186787C

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