I've heard running a wire around the layout & tapping into it at building locations, also the use of Christmas tree lights. Thanks in advance.
ROZY 205
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That will work but be advised that if you are talking about the miniature lights and not the LED ones they come in voltages as low as 1.5 volts. They are normally connected in series, that is out of one lamp and into the next and so on. That way the voltages add up. On a train layout you would normally use lamps from a 10 lamp set (120 / 10 = 12 volts) and connect the lamps in parallel, both power wires connect to each lamp, and then run them off about 10 volts from the transformer.
The one thing you need to be careful with when using christmas lamps is they have a shorting wire in them. This is there so that if one burns out the rest stay lit. Usually when connected to a transformer the power is such that this little shorting wire pops also and the bulb just goes out but if you get a stubborn one you will have a short on the line.
Al
The one thing you need to be careful with when using christmas lamps is they have a shorting wire in them. This is there so that if one burns out the rest stay lit. Usually when connected to a transformer the power is such that this little shorting wire pops also and the bulb just goes out but if you get a stubborn one you will have a short on the line.
Al
I ran 2 wires 1 for positive & 1 for negative both for my building lights & 2 wires for my street lights which are controlled by seperate switches it works for me.
If you run wire around the layout, do you have to run 2 wires ?. Where do the wires get re-connected ?. What do you use to tap into the wire ?.
ROZY 205
ROZY 205
Dale, mentioned using crimp on taps, I am not familiar with them. How do they look & where can you get them ?
ROZY 205
ROZY 205
I'm new to electrical forum. I would think he means the 'suitcase' type connector where you place the wires in the plastic connector flip over the other side a squeeze with pliers,forcing the metal 'c' clips into the wires making contact.
The tap connectors are easy to use they can be purchased at walmart just follow the instructions and crimp them on
The crimp connectors are in the automotive department
Best thing since non-contact voltage detectors...
Thank you for the information & video on crimp connectors, this really helps.
ROZY 205
ROZY 205
Suitcase connectors are not a good idea. They are designed to cut thru the insulation on the wire, and make contact with the conductor. However they tend to cut some of the strands or cut deeply into solid wire,reducing the amount of power the wire can can handle.
father.dragon, if that is the case what do you suggest ?
ROZY 205
ROZY 205
I RAN 2 SOLID COPPER WIRES UNDER MY LAYOUT AND ATTACHED THE TWO WIRES FOR BUILDINGS AND LIGHTS TO THAT. ELEMINATES ALOT OF WIRING
I like to use these Scotchlok T-tap connectors.
They're like suitcase connectors in that you clamp them around a bus wire, but then you can reversibly plug accessories in with quick-disconnect crimp-on terminals.
They're like suitcase connectors in that you clamp them around a bus wire, but then you can reversibly plug accessories in with quick-disconnect crimp-on terminals.
As someone suggested I used Radio Shack bare copper wire around the layout. 2 seperate lines positive and common connected to a power source. Put in drops from the lights and attached with alligator clips. Very cheap and no problems in 12 years.
quote:Originally posted by F&G RY:
As someone suggested I used Radio Shack bare copper wire around the layout. 2 seperate lines positive and common connected to a power source. Put in drops from the lights and attached with alligator clips. Very cheap and no problems in 12 years.
Why in heavens name would anyone use BARE wire for anything but a ground.I know you probably don't know any better but the guy that suggested it in the first place is a Moron .Why do you think the wires in every house in the world are insulated???Why is every wire in every building in the world insulated????
Because nobody wants them burnt to the ground.
I do like the part about no problems in twelve years but you left out YET off the end of that sentence.
I thought I'd heard it all and believe me I've heard some Doozys in the almost 40 years in the electrical industry but that's about as un safe as it gets.
If you store stuff under your layout you may as well include your gas can that way it'll get going real good when the sparks come down on the other stuff.
David
I am not a moron, and I use bare wire for some of my various supply busses. They are attached with staples to the underside of the wooden stringers and joists of my table. As long as they are not loose and waving around (like some hands on this forum) they will be fine.
As an electrician for over 50 years, I can assure you that low voltage wiring like this, while not the best method, is not the worst, either. As long as there are adequate fuses, installed at the correct points, nobody's house is going to burn down.
Let's save our professional outrage (and I have been known to display mine) for the really stupid suggestions, like putting a nail across non-current-limited transformer terminals to see if the circuit breaker will work, and like using the term GROUND where there ain't one.
As an electrician for over 50 years, I can assure you that low voltage wiring like this, while not the best method, is not the worst, either. As long as there are adequate fuses, installed at the correct points, nobody's house is going to burn down.
Let's save our professional outrage (and I have been known to display mine) for the really stupid suggestions, like putting a nail across non-current-limited transformer terminals to see if the circuit breaker will work, and like using the term GROUND where there ain't one.
quote:Suitcase connectors are not a good idea. They are designed to cut thru the insulation on the wire, and make contact with the conductor. However they tend to cut some of the strands or cut deeply into solid wire,reducing the amount of power the wire can can handle.
Actually, unless you really force them, the strands should not break.
Suitcase connectors are part of a family of connectors used in many electrical industrial applications that fall under the heading of "IDC", or Insulation Displacement Connections.
Their method of connection requires that they push the insulation aside, and cut into the feed conductor, creating what we call a gas-tight connection. This means that there is such a tight connection between the blade of the connector and the copper conductor that atmospheric gases cannot penetrate the junction. The gases, particularly O2, would eventually cause corrosion, which in communication wiring causes static, and in higher-current applications, can start a snowball effect of a resistive fault.
See, for example,*THIS*explanation.
Well you can Call an AC common anything you like but because it's the only return path because there's no equipment ground it's going to do exactly the same thing as that Ground and I don't think you could even begin to argue that point.
Furthermore as a Professional as you claim to be I'm appalled that even for the first second you'd even suggest anything to anyone that was not considered safe.
There's no way you can sit there and say that because those wires are bare they couldn't make a spark before the circuit opened up and one spark has burnt many a house down.
Maybe Moron is a harsh word but I'm trying to convey to those who would try such a thing that it is an unsafe,dangerous and totally unacceptable way to do things.
With Liability these days being what it is Art, I think condoning and promoting a practice such as this would be very bad judgment from a professional point of view.
Here's a perfect scenario to support what I'm saying . Those alligator clips get weak from the load thats on them . Now they're not making good contact.
A short occurs and a spark occurs before the breaker opens up and falls down into some items stored under the train table at the other end from the control panel. It's getting late and the guy says "Screw it I'll mess with it tomorrow" And goes up stairs to bed.
He awakes in the middle of the night because his house is on fire Why? all because he didn't have insulated wire under his train layout with good solidly connected splices that were taped so the breaker and the breaker alone could and would do it's job.
I do hope that Inexperienced folks who read post recommending practices like this can see it's like putting a screen door on a submarine.Sometimes you need to use common sense.Good wiring practices are like the seat belt in your car.Your not wearing it just because your riding in your car,your wearing it for that one time you need it just like a smoke detector in your house.
David
Furthermore as a Professional as you claim to be I'm appalled that even for the first second you'd even suggest anything to anyone that was not considered safe.
There's no way you can sit there and say that because those wires are bare they couldn't make a spark before the circuit opened up and one spark has burnt many a house down.
Maybe Moron is a harsh word but I'm trying to convey to those who would try such a thing that it is an unsafe,dangerous and totally unacceptable way to do things.
With Liability these days being what it is Art, I think condoning and promoting a practice such as this would be very bad judgment from a professional point of view.
Here's a perfect scenario to support what I'm saying . Those alligator clips get weak from the load thats on them . Now they're not making good contact.
A short occurs and a spark occurs before the breaker opens up and falls down into some items stored under the train table at the other end from the control panel. It's getting late and the guy says "Screw it I'll mess with it tomorrow" And goes up stairs to bed.
He awakes in the middle of the night because his house is on fire Why? all because he didn't have insulated wire under his train layout with good solidly connected splices that were taped so the breaker and the breaker alone could and would do it's job.
I do hope that Inexperienced folks who read post recommending practices like this can see it's like putting a screen door on a submarine.Sometimes you need to use common sense.Good wiring practices are like the seat belt in your car.Your not wearing it just because your riding in your car,your wearing it for that one time you need it just like a smoke detector in your house.
David
if you don't agree with someones post, you should simply say so. Calling someone a moron is just tasteless. Maybe the post could have been better worded, such as "I use bare wire in my low voltage DC".
None of us are experts in all fields, and we can all learn from others.
None of us are experts in all fields, and we can all learn from others.
I think this is important enough to expand on this,
I spent my last ten years at the Power Company here in Virginia as a trouble shooter .One of my duties was to go to fires and disconnect the power for the various Fire Departments in 4 different counties.
I've seen it a thousand times you pull up to a fire grab a hot stick and open the cutout box (Fuse) at the transformer.It's then that you start taking in the scene.
Hopefully(And you always hope) nobody's been killed but even if that's true the scene is always the same.
Some Mom and Dad is standing on the curb with their kids knowing they've just lost everything .Sometimes it's a stupid space heater or an extension cord.
Sometimes it's something totally out of their control but that scene on the curb is always the same.
Some have good insurance and they'll be back in business in a year or so.
A lot find out they didn't have enough and are faced with starting over.
I can't say I haven't been affected by it.
So how much more time does it take to do something right and know it's safe
Or do you feel it's better to throw it all together and hope beyond hope that your not going to be those folks standing at the curb?
David
I spent my last ten years at the Power Company here in Virginia as a trouble shooter .One of my duties was to go to fires and disconnect the power for the various Fire Departments in 4 different counties.
I've seen it a thousand times you pull up to a fire grab a hot stick and open the cutout box (Fuse) at the transformer.It's then that you start taking in the scene.
Hopefully(And you always hope) nobody's been killed but even if that's true the scene is always the same.
Some Mom and Dad is standing on the curb with their kids knowing they've just lost everything .Sometimes it's a stupid space heater or an extension cord.
Sometimes it's something totally out of their control but that scene on the curb is always the same.
Some have good insurance and they'll be back in business in a year or so.
A lot find out they didn't have enough and are faced with starting over.
I can't say I haven't been affected by it.
So how much more time does it take to do something right and know it's safe
Or do you feel it's better to throw it all together and hope beyond hope that your not going to be those folks standing at the curb?
David
quote:Originally posted by rogerpete:
if you don't agree with someones post, you should simply say so. Calling someone a moron is just tasteless. Maybe the post could have been better worded, such as "I use bare wire in my low voltage DC".
None of us are experts in all fields, and we can all learn from others.
If you can take in the context of these 2 post's I think I did say no
David
As a new member to this forum site, I think my participation will be coming to an end.
I am not disagreeing with your point or the other point. I am not saying someone is right or wrong. I have no idea who you or the other electrical expert is. I am simply talking about being civil, and keeping this a professional forum where people feel free to ask questions, no matter how simple they may be to some of you... I am well pleased that you are looking out for the well being of the average joe out there.
I am not disagreeing with your point or the other point. I am not saying someone is right or wrong. I have no idea who you or the other electrical expert is. I am simply talking about being civil, and keeping this a professional forum where people feel free to ask questions, no matter how simple they may be to some of you... I am well pleased that you are looking out for the well being of the average joe out there.
Roger,
I for one am very sorry you feel that way.I have a lot of experience in the electrical industry.I'm fully licensed for voltages up to and including 345,000 volts.As one that does have this experience I feel it's my duty to insure that any advice that I give here on the forum be advice that if done the way I say it will be safe. I'm very sorry if that sometimes comes off as cold and calloused.
But electricity is not something to be taken lightly and because it can and does cause fires . I won't take it upon myself to either condone or in anyway support any practice that I know is not right.
Maybe it's because I was brought up with a father that taught me very strong work ethics .Maybe because it's from seeing all those fires.
I'm sorry you see the word Moron as being tasteless maybe they should strike it from the english language but my use of the word Moron was in a general sense and not directed to anyone. Arthur chose to put himself in that context not me.
I hope you reconsider your involvement with the forum and will continue to participate
David
I for one am very sorry you feel that way.I have a lot of experience in the electrical industry.I'm fully licensed for voltages up to and including 345,000 volts.As one that does have this experience I feel it's my duty to insure that any advice that I give here on the forum be advice that if done the way I say it will be safe. I'm very sorry if that sometimes comes off as cold and calloused.
But electricity is not something to be taken lightly and because it can and does cause fires . I won't take it upon myself to either condone or in anyway support any practice that I know is not right.
Maybe it's because I was brought up with a father that taught me very strong work ethics .Maybe because it's from seeing all those fires.
I'm sorry you see the word Moron as being tasteless maybe they should strike it from the english language but my use of the word Moron was in a general sense and not directed to anyone. Arthur chose to put himself in that context not me.
I hope you reconsider your involvement with the forum and will continue to participate
David
The scenario of the fire sounded more like a problem with the alligator clip connector than a bare cooper wire. I know others as mentioned here have used track and connected the drops to the rail under the layout is that not the same as bare wire. For that matter is not the rail itself bare wire.
I do not think my setup is really that dangerous. I use a Lionel 180 watt brick running through the variable channel of a MTH TIU. The breaker on this is so quick I can not use them on mainlines as they pop on the smallest of shorts.
Being moron #2 not really offended because I feel the poster was just being passionate about what he does.
I do not think my setup is really that dangerous. I use a Lionel 180 watt brick running through the variable channel of a MTH TIU. The breaker on this is so quick I can not use them on mainlines as they pop on the smallest of shorts.
Being moron #2 not really offended because I feel the poster was just being passionate about what he does.
HEY,, DPC have a beer,, take a break,, chill out,, jeezz..
quote:Originally posted by og fan:
HEY,, DPC have a beer,, take a break,, chill out,, jeezz..
I don't drink Alcohol ,I'm a Water and Tea guy (6 way Bypass)
I'm not tore up about anything I've posted . I won't loose a second of sleep tonight (I assure you) for the advice I've given I'm glad that this thread like most others on the forums has a post from a guy like you who is doing all he can to help bring his far flung knowledge to a topic that is critical to the saftey of others.
Thank You so much for your input and I'll sincerely give your suggestions the credence and consideration they deserve.
David
