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I attached a video in post # 7 or so, on down this thread, just a minute ago.

 

----------------------Original post is below .....................................................

 

I asked my LHS to set one aside and they called this afternoon when the shipment came in.  

Why?  Not sure.  Curiosity - I know it is strange my buying this given that I run only conventional -  hypocritical even, but I wanted to try Lionel's new system out. 

 

The photo below shows the set, a simple oval, and all-plastic (okay, the wheels are metal) Thomas, Clarabell and Annie cars.  I think these are the same as prior Thomas offerings by Lionel.  Thomas feels quite hefty in spite of the  plastic and I imagine could pulls a few more cars.  All this for $159 list.  Wow.

 

Anyway, I did not even unwrap the instruction manual.  Should not have to: is it simple enough for a five year old?  Yes.  I put together the track.  I put Thomas and friends on the track.  I plugged the power supply into the wall and then the other into the special track section (see small photo).  Immediately Thomas started chuffing - a slow, "at idle" chuffing rate - imagine an old Railsounds or Trainsounds or whatever the first generation of Lionel electronic sound was, through a tiny, tiny speaker.  Not too loud, not much fidelity (worst I have ever heard, actually, but okay . . . $159. 

 

I then pirated three batteries from a TV remote control to power the remote, closed the battery cover and pressed various buttons.  Nothing happened.  Oh! There is an ON-OFF switch on the right side of the remote.  I turn it to "On."  The red light on the top of the remote glows.  I turn the throttle knob.  Thomas takes off, chuffing.  Looks to have a bit of a momentum feature built into the electronics, or maybe he just takes a while to work up to speed.  Regardless, at full throttle he's moving uncomfortably close to tumping over in the curves, I think.  I slow him down to the slowest speed he will go - not Legacy slow, but a bit slower than any of my conventional locos will go.  I push the bell button.  Ding dign ding.  Not loud, not a really good bell sound, but okay . . .    The horn.  Hmmm - definatley a sound.  Maybe that is a horn -- Thomas probably isn't going to be too, uhhh, dare I say, horny?  It's a noise anyway . . . A third button makes some sort of sound, I think someone shouting "All Aboard."  Not sure really.  None of these sounds is really loud, but probably that's good, given kids will play with it.  Thomas goes in reverse, too.  I set him to backing up at a slow speed.  

 

Actually it is a cute set and the Lionel remote works very simply, and very well.   It's not Legacy, but that is what I like about this.  It doesn't feel like a computer system to me - just a simple knob and buttons: hold the transformer controls in my hand type of thing.  

 

Thomas is still backing up.  My wife comes in and demands the batteries for her remote: apparently stealing them is a cardinal sin in our household.  I turn off the remote, open the battery pack, and hand her the batteries.  Strange - Thomas is still backing up.  I watch.  He backs up for a while at a steady speed, and then seems to gradually lose interest and slow to a stop and begins chuffing at idle. 

 

When I get more batteries I'm going to try to discover how many speed steps he has, etc.  

 

and I wonder, Thomas has just one motor.  But do you think the electronics board in there would maybe power two, like - in a BEEP?  

 

 

 

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Last edited by Lee Willis
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Lee

 

Thanks for the quick review.  I've been debating on getting this set for the oldest son's fourth birthday later this fall.  I think he would have a lot of fun with the remote.  My biggest question is do you have to use the remote or can Thomas run using a regular transformer in conventional mode?

 

James

Originally Posted by jlm1973:

Lee

 

Thanks for the quick review.  I've been debating on getting this set for the oldest son's fourth birthday later this fall.  I think he would have a lot of fun with the remote.  My biggest question is do you have to use the remote or can Thomas run using a regular transformer in conventional mode?

 

James

I don't know but I would guess not.  I sort of doubt Thomas will run on conventional.  I don't think Lionel claims it will run conventional, too, as they do for their Legacy locos.  

Originally Posted by Railfamily11:

thomas will run in conventional mode i seen a video on youtube about it, the engine can be put on "dads" layout as they stated, and ran.

 

NO!!!!  Mine does not do this!  I tried just now with a CW-80.  When I power it up and track voltage exceeds about 5 volts, Thomas starts chuffing "at idle."  He continues to do that no matter what - if I raise voltage to 18, or if I hit the direction button, or back the throttle to zero and back up, etc.  It does not matter.  Also, he does not respond to the CW-80's bell, whistle buttons - they don't work.

 

But when I set the conventional transformer near open throttle, to about 16 volts, and turn on and use his remote, he's happy as ever and runs fine.

 

I looked through the manual, too (finally opened it) - no mention of conventional.  No "Run - Prog" switch or anything I can find. 

 

Maybe a prototype in the video worked in conventional, maybe some other model does, too, but this one definitely does not.  I wonder if maybe the Thomas in the video was running with a Legacy controller in that video on dad's layout, rather than on conventional? It would not surprise me if that would do it (if you know what # they give Thomas - I bet it's 1.)

My understanding was that you can run it on any layout, using available track power. But.... you will still need the supplied remote control to operate it. I believe that the power supply with the new Thomas set simply supplies a fixed voltage to the track, with no control signals of any kind being passed through the rails. Lee's observations would seem to confirm this thinking. Perhaps Lee might confirm my thoughts on the power supply though?

Originally Posted by N.Q.D.Y.:

My understanding was that you can run it on any layout, using available track power. But.... you will still need the supplied remote control to operate it. I believe that the power supply with the new Thomas set simply supplies a fixed voltage to the track, with no control signals of any kind being passed through the rails. Lee's observations would seem to confirm this thinking. Perhaps Lee might confirm my thoughts on the power supply though?

Yes, you are absolutely correct, N.Q.D.Y!  The power suppy that comes with remote Thomas is a small (smaller than a pack of ciagarettes) box that plugs into the wall.  No buttons or knobs, just a cord with plug that attaches to the special fasttrack straight section.  It puts out a steady 18 volts. 

 

 Thomas works fine on power from a conventional transformer as long as the voltage is set to something like the 18 he's used to. 

 

As to the sound, it is pretty poor by standards of Legacy locos, etc. - even in comparison with Railsounds or the sound in low end Railking locos of five yeara ago.   I wonder how much of that is the speaker, though.  The thing must have a minute speaker in it (its under the cool load and there is not much room there) and the sound exits through slots cut into the sides of the coal trunk. 

Thanks Ted. You are correct in assuming it does not transmit through the track, but directly to the loco, and I'm hopeful your assumption that it's just DC control under the bonnet. The reason the handset is color coded, is because it will only work Thomas. I guess Lionel will re-issue a new range of other locos with their own color coded controller, allowing you to run multiple different engines on the same track.

Originally Posted by Dave Allen:

Thanks Ted. You are correct in assuming it does not transmit through the track, but directly to the loco, and I'm hopeful your assumption that it's just DC control under the bonnet. The reason the handset is color coded, is because it will only work Thomas. I guess Lionel will re-issue a new range of other locos with their own color coded controller, allowing you to run multiple different engines on the same track.

I'd bet money and give you odds that the track voltage is rectified on the spot and the unit runs strictly on DC.   The motor is DC, so there's really no use for AC inside.

Cute set, however the sound is very disappointing and takes this set off my buy list. 

Lee can the engine sounds be turned off?

IMHO Lionel would have been better off putting it out with no sound and selling add on accessory's like a battery operated sound shed (whistle or horn) that when activated said "Hi Thomas" or something like that. 

Otherwise, clever and very cute.

Originally Posted by Dave Allen:

Thanks Ted. You are correct in assuming it does not transmit through the track, but directly to the loco, and I'm hopeful your assumption that it's just DC control under the bonnet. The reason the handset is color coded, is because it will only work Thomas. I guess Lionel will re-issue a new range of other locos with their own color coded controller, allowing you to run multiple different engines on the same track.

I too am hoping that it will be 50Hz compatible.  Most new products do seem to be 50Hz compatible these days. I'm waiting for the manual to be posted on-line, as there is normally a statement in that.  I don't know if the power pack may have a label stating the frequencies though, as that is probably just designed for the US market. An ideal situation would be for the power pack to be multi-voltage and multi-frequency, but that may be hoping for just a bit too much at this price level.

Perhaps someone who has one could take a peek at the instruction book/power-pack and let us know?

Originally Posted by Dave Allen:

I wonder if it will play with 50hz? Lionel, in the past have been bad at not making their products 50hz friendly, denying millions of customers in the world other than North America. I'd love to be able to sell this in Australia.

Nothing in the design would prevent 50hz operation, and I believe it was checked for 50hz operation in the factory.  If I have a chance in the next few days,  I will try my unit in our 50hz test track and advise if any issues.

When Lionel had it operating at York this past April they had pulling 8 cars at a very slow speed. They also explained how it could be used on the parent's layout, by using it with a Legacy system. That as long as you were using a system that supplying 18 volts to the track then you could use the Thomas with the supplied remote. They also explained that Lionel will bringing out future offerings and that each engine would use it's own remote, that each engine would use a different signal. I believe this is the same kind of remote that is used in the 'G' gauge Polar Express engine.

 

The amazing part here is a set using a remote control that is cheaper in price by $70 then it's conventional set. 

Originally Posted by paulp:

The amazing part here is a set using a remote control that is cheaper in price by $70 then it's conventional set. 

 

Probably has to do with the fact that they don't have to include the normal transformer (believe they've been using the 40 watt ones for a number of years now with the thomas sets).  Just a regular 18 volt wall transformer.

Originally Posted by SantaFeFan:
Originally Posted by Dave Allen:

I wonder if it will play with 50hz? Lionel, in the past have been bad at not making their products 50hz friendly, denying millions of customers in the world other than North America. I'd love to be able to sell this in Australia.

Nothing in the design would prevent 50hz operation, and I believe it was checked for 50hz operation in the factory.  If I have a chance in the next few days,  I will try my unit in our 50hz test track and advise if any issues.

Thanks Jon, that's great news.

Originally Posted by N.Q.D.Y.:
Originally Posted by Dave Allen:

Thanks Ted. You are correct in assuming it does not transmit through the track, but directly to the loco, and I'm hopeful your assumption that it's just DC control under the bonnet. The reason the handset is color coded, is because it will only work Thomas. I guess Lionel will re-issue a new range of other locos with their own color coded controller, allowing you to run multiple different engines on the same track.

I too am hoping that it will be 50Hz compatible.  Most new products do seem to be 50Hz compatible these days. I'm waiting for the manual to be posted on-line, as there is normally a statement in that.  I don't know if the power pack may have a label stating the frequencies though, as that is probably just designed for the US market. An ideal situation would be for the power pack to be multi-voltage and multi-frequency, but that may be hoping for just a bit too much at this price level.

Perhaps someone who has one could take a peek at the instruction book/power-pack and let us know?

Nicole, now that track voltage is confirmed DC, just bin the US power supply, you will be able to buy on eBay, a suitable DC 18v DC plug pack for a couple of quid. I buy lots of these Chinese DC plug packs, they are just mini switch mode power supplies and work just fine.

Thomas runs on either AC or DC.  

 

The power supply that comes with him seems to have a rectifier and is supplying something like DC at 18 Volts.   36 watts max capacity according to the fine print on it.  Thomas doesn't need nearly that much (see below).

 

I ran him just now on my Z4000, with its meters.  With all the mess of corrosion on my layout (see other threads) I only have 10 feet to test him on.  But that is enough.  Again, it requires the remote to control him -- on conventional he does nothing, but the AC power from the Z4000 will power him if I use the remote to control him.  

 

I takes at least 7 volts AC to power up his sound.  At below 7 volts AC, nothing.  At just over 7 v AC, he starts his chuffing at idle.

 

But he will not move, even if you advance the remote throttle, unless track voltage is  is over 10 volts AC, and then not well until at least 12 volts.

At 14 volts AC, he behaves as well as he is going to on AC.  I did not run him above 18 volts AC since that may be the max he is designed for, but above 14 it does not seem to matter it it is 15, 16, or 18.  

 

At any AC voltage I ran him at, he does not behave as well as on 18 V DC from the power pack supplied with the set - he will not run nearly as slow on AC; at the slowest setting i can get him to run at on AC, he is running about as fast as most starter set locos  run conventionally on their lowest speed. He jackrabbit starts, too.  Whamo - fast out of the gate not matter what I do.  

 

Anyway, at 14 volts, at medium speed (scale 45 mph, as i eyeballed it) he draws .4 amps according the the z4000. That is somewhere around 6-7 watts, running at medium speed and by himself.  Not much power.  I could easily triple head three Thomas's and probably have them pull a dozen cars, I'd guess, before getting to the limit of the 36 watts DC power supply that comes with him.  

 

So, in summary, Thomas runs best on his own, DC, power supply, but, as advertised, you can take him up to "Dad's layout" and run him on AC.  

Here is the thing guys, I need some help here

 

1, Why would one buy this rather than the old Thomas

 

2. If the Remote Thomas works much better with DC power one could insert a small rectifier with an 18V DC regulator and a smoothing capacitor, this would let the Thomas run quite happily at a constant 18V DC on a standard constant voltage 14V AC or higher layout. this circuit build would not be large but I am not sure how much room there is inside the engine, you would need a small heat sink.

 

 

 

Originally Posted by masoner:

Here is the thing guys, I need some help here

 

1, Why would one buy this rather than the old Thomas

    Well, it costs less . . . 

 

2. If the Remote Thomas works much better with DC power one could insert a small rectifier with an 18V DC regulator and a smoothing capacitor . . . 

 

Yes, you could, and I too would expect that might make him behave a bit better on AC.  I have not taken him apart (yet) but I imagine there is very little room left inside.

 

 

 

 

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