Skip to main content

I run all post war, tin plate, 3 rail. I have 2 small loops. Both powered by a KW. I use an LW for accessories. Ihe inner loop has all the switches and two 153 block signals attached to two of the switches. All is good there. The outside loop has no accessories except one 153 block signal I just added. It is attached to a 153C track controller. This signal is powered by the LW. I ran trains over the outer loop to adjust the 153. All went well. Then something happened. My post-war Erie 610 switcher died. My post-war 675 steamer seems to have a damaged E-Unit. I have no clue what happened. I disco'd the 153. I ran all my good engines on both loops. I set up a test track to check the engines. The ones that ran before still run. The ones that were dead are still dead. Does anyone have a clue what happened? Thanks all.

Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

Based on my experience with post war engines, It really takes a lot to burn them out, I mean literally either the coils in the e unit or the coils on the armeture burn (and you smell it).  I agree with others, to check phasing if the LW and the KW are using a common ground, but I don't know if that would do it. On a modern engine a transient voltage spike can fry circuit boards.

With the engines, do you smell anything like burned insulation? Have you tried taking the shells off and seeing if you see anything obvius, like maybe a wire broken off the e-unit or to the engine (long shot). If you have a meter, I would put power to the rollers and see if you see voltage getting to the e-unit, trace the power coming in as first part. If the engine has a light on it, is it lit? My guess would be a fried e-unit, that is about the only thing I could think of.

Open up the 610 switcher Dennis.  The field coil is mounted right on the truck and forms an integral part of the frame.  Check continuity and check that e-unit.   And also check the other collector truck  with the rollers.

Bypass the e unit.  Green goes to the field tab in the middle, blue to one brush holder, and yellow to the other.

Jumper one brush holder to the field tab, attach one test lead to the other brush holder.  Touch the other test lead to metal side of motor.  Reverse the brush holder wires and it should run in the opposite direction.

You can bypass the e-unit in the other engine the same way.

John

Last edited by Craftech
@ADCX Rob posted:

Actually, it's not quirky, it's the norm for most transformers.

Only multiple throttle transformers use "U" as the common, outside rail connection.

@Richie C. posted:

Like the CW-80 ?

The CW-80 is a two-throttle power supply. They both use the lever at different times to set the output... there is no fixed voltage tap... AND, the original CW versions DID have A as common, not "U". It was poorly designed in that regard as it was not thought through carefully - proper operation of the whistle & bell required the common connection to be made to the center rail.

@ADCX Rob posted:

The CW-80 is a two-throttle power supply. They both use the lever at different times to set the output... there is no fixed voltage tap... AND, the original CW versions DID have A as common, not "U". It was poorly designed in that regard as it was not thought through carefully - proper operation of the whistle & bell required the common connection to be made to the center rail.

I would consider the CW-80 to be a dual output transformer, but not a two-throttle transformer.

The second set of terminals (B-U) is labeled for accessory usage and is fixed at whatever output you set it at. Once set, that second output is no longer controlled by the throttle until and unless you go through the re-set procedure and set it to a fixed output again and the throttle only controls the track (A-U) output.

At any rate, since the OP was using a KW on one loop and the LW on the other and blew up two post-war engines, I thought it important enough and potentially helpful to at least point out that the two transformer's output terminals are "opposite" of one another. 

@Dennis Rosenthal, it's been about a day now, have you discovered any new information? When you say both engines are "...dead...", what exactly does that mean? Do they light up at all when power is applied to the tracks? What led you to believe that the e-unit on the 675 is bad?

Frankly, I believe @bigkid is on the right track - Pullmor engines that don't have any electronics (TMCC, electronic e-unit, etc.) are pretty danged hard to burn  up! Open your engines and troubleshoot with your eyes and nose - is anything burned?

I found a broken wire in my 610 Erie. Repaired it and it is good. Which leaves me wondering is this a coincidence or is something else going on. Haven't had a chance to look at the 675. I think there is an E-Unit issue since when I giggle it the engine goes and stops. Having said all this I am still exploring the fundamental problem. The outer loop is powered by the KW. I put a 153 signal on the loop. I attached it to a 153C track controller on the same loop. i powered the signal from my LW. Why would that cause a problem?

I believe this was simply a coincidence - can't imagine what the odds are.  But remember what Spock said, "When you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth" Always waiting for a chance to use that!

I don't believe your transformers, phased or not, (and they really should be) had anything to do with this - the 153C contactor does not connect to the hot rail or outside rail, it's just a SPDT switch. And if I may quote you, " I ran trains over the outer loop to adjust the 153. All went well." So if the transformer phasing was truly an issue, things would never have run correctly from the get-go.

If it were me, I would just put everything back the way it was and try it again! Your 675 obviously still needs a look-see, and it could just as easily be a bad finger contact to the e-units drum as it could a loose or broken wire, cold solder joint, etc. But troubleshoot it separately, on a simple loop of track. Once you have fixed whatever issue it has, then throw it back on your layout!

George

To SteveH: My transformers are not phased. How do you do that?

Pennsylover: Neither engine is/was in neutral.

Craftech: I fixed the 610, it was a broken wire. Have not looked inside the 675 yet. Do not understand your idea about connecting "A" from LW to "U" from KW.

BigKid: No burning smell. 610 fixed.

GeoPeg: 610 is fixed, broken wire. 675 not opened yet. No burnt smell.

RichMelvin: Still have to look inside the 675.

Thanks everyone.

@Dennis Rosenthal Agreed with all who've said so previously, if there's no interconnection at all between the two different transformers, then phasing them is not really necessary.  But, if you do want to share connections between them, correctly phasing to each other will help avoid unintended higher voltages and currents.

Here's a link to an excellent How To Guide from @MartyE about phasing.

http://www.martye.com/TipsandTricks/TipsandTrick2.htm



@Richie C. and @Craftech John's first posts above should also be considered regarding the differences between the KW and LW and which terminals are Common/outside rail.

Last edited by SteveH

Add Reply

Post
OGR Publishing, Inc., 1310 Eastside Centre Ct, Suite 6, Mountain Home, AR 72653
330-757-3020

www.ogaugerr.com
×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×
×