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I have electrical sensitivity to high frequency radio waves.  That means when I am around them too much I get neurologic sickness.  It can debilitate me for up to a week.  When my Lionel O gauge trains are running, they emit signals in the 200 MHz - 8 GHz range up to 3.00 V/m every few seconds.  Therefore, I can't run my trains frequently. A MTH technician told me a Z-1000 transformer would give a cleaner sine wave.  I tried one that was made in 2012, and the results were the same as using my Lionel CW-80 or 1970s red transformer.  I like the transformer, but it didn't change the radio frequency problem. I have a 1943 Marx, a 2004 Lionel Copper Range, a 2014 Lionel Pere Marquette, and a 2012 Lionel Santa Fe Flyer. I also tried a 1975 Lionel Liberty Special. They all have slightly different but still bad results. Is there anything you could suggest to fix this problem? I would really like to run my trains again.

Thank you,

Jake

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I have never heard of that issue, very odd.  I can tell you that it's unlikely that the issue is simply the transformer.  The older post-war transformers have a pure 60hz sine wave, no high frequencies there.  The newer transformers like the CW-80 or the Z-1000 use a chopped wave and the harmonics of those can be higher frequency, but rarely anything close to 200mhz or up.

How are you determine the emissions, and have you pinpointed the are they are being emitted from?

We have a meter that determines the frequency and V/m.  It is an Acousticom 2 (Lessemf.com).  An electrician hooked up an oscilloscope to my CW-80 and 1970's Red and thought it was a transformer issue, but had no advice.  He also has a higher quality EMF meter that verified the signals were in the high frequency range. An MTH technician told us the transformer was the issue during a phone conversation.

 When the engine runs by itself it does not emit as high V/m as when you add cars.  The more rolling stock, the higher the V/m. 

I forgot to mention that my trains are 100% conventionally powered.

We had a problem once with a new furnace that emitted signals in the radio frequency range.  I got a piercing pain in my head every time I passed the thermostat in the living room.  We had specifically told the furnace salesman that we didn't want any smart technology due to my illness.  The furnace company did some testing and determined that when the furnace cycled on and off, it somehow pushed into the high frequency range, and it followed the wire up to the thermostat and transmitted the signal through the living room.  I don't understand how it all works, I just know it hurts.  The furnace company replaced the furnace with a lower efficiency one and there was no problem after that.  WIFI, bluetooth, cell phones, smart meters, etc all affect me.

When I put the meter on the transformer the V/m is lower than when I hold the meter close to the engine.  However, the high V/m can still be detected from across the room. 

Thank you for your input.  I am also wondering, if I can't fix the O gauge problem, will I experience the same issue with HO.  I would like to stay with O.  There has to be a solution...

 

You're in a whole new realm now, trying to suppress EMI from model trains.  In a previous life, I designed avionics for military and commercial aircraft, and dealing with EMI was a major part of the designs.  Retrofitting EMI suppression to consumer electronics I suspect will be a daunting task.

I suspect I'd start with simple measures, equipping the locomotives and transformer feeds with low-pass filters.  With older conventional stuff, I can imagine the brushes sparking can generate some interesting EMI.

I think you're going to have to attack the issue one piece at a time, work on one locomotive and the transformer and tinker until you find something that addresses the problem, then expand it to other locomotives.  As for the transformer, I'd clearly be using pure sine wave PW transformers, they're less likely to emit EMI than any of the electronically controlled units.

Well, it's not a canned product, it would be one that you would roll yourself.  Basically, I'd be dropping in a choke and a cap to ground to stop any high frequency from making it onto the tracks.  Since you're running strictly conventional, you can make the filter fairly aggressive and kill anything above a few khz. 

For the transformer feeds, perhaps this 9A 47uH Inductor in series with the leads with a .1 uf capacitor across the track side.  For the locomotives, I'd put one of these 3A 33uH Inductors in series with the hot lead with a .1uf capacitor to the frame.

Do that to one transformer and one locomotive and see if you get positive results.

EMI suppression is more an art than a science - it's very difficult to come up with a one-size-fits-all prescriptive approach.  That said, one approach is to separate the emissions problem as to being radiated or conducted (or both).

For example, it appears that your furnace issue was a conducted problem as it came from the furnace via the cabling to the exposed thermostat.  Not that it matters now, but it would have been interesting to see if placing a filter on the thermostat control cable at the furnace would have blocked the high-frequency signal from conducting to the thermostat.

OTOH, as I understand it your meter shows a strong reading in the vicinity of the engine but drops off away from the engine.  This suggests you have a radiated issue since if the track was conducting the emissions like an antenna, the field strength would not be so localized.

I'm not familiar with the various engines you mentioned as to know what kind of "electronics" is inside.  You can read a nice summary of the use of capacitors to suppress motor brush commutation noise/arcing as a source of radiated emissions here.  A few 5 cent capacitors can do wonders.  If the "electronics" is an old-school basic reversing unit, then I don't think that will be the source of any meaningful EMI.  If the electronics has sound or other modern features typically implemented with digital processor circuitry, then there's a high frequency clock signal which can radiate.  Then it could be a shielding issue which is do-able.

When you say the radiated emissions increase when the engine is pulling rolling stock, I assume you mean from the engine itself...likely from increased brush noise as more current is flowing thru the motor windings to pull the additional load.  If you had lighted passenger cars, you will get arcing from intermittent wheel/roller contact with the track which I suppose is similar to brush/commutation noise.  That would be a more interesting problem to solve since the arcing (the emissions) are occurring at the track so difficult to shield.

Same thing with the transformers.  If the meter readings drop off with distance from the transformer irrespective of track, then it seems to me the dominant problem is radiated emissions from the transformer and its "electronics" if there is any.  I'm pretty sure the CW-80 has a digital microprocessor circuit inside which has a clock circuit running the the MHz.  I can't believe they would have designed it to limit RF emissions other than to "just" pass FCC (or similar) standards for consumer electronics.  Obviously your personal requirements far exceed these standards.  So like an engine, if a high frequency digital circuit is radiating from the transformer, some form of shielding (metal box) around the circuit can help.  If it's a conducted problem (going out the cables like your furnace) then the low-pass filters will help.  Messing with inductors/chokes can be tedious and you pretty much need to go to a specialty electronics components distributor.  To that end, I dug out my old Radio Shack paper catalog as I recall they sold really easy to use clamp-on snap-on filters where you don't have to cut the cable.  Depending on what frequencies you're trying to suppress, these can be a quick solution if you have a conducted problem (emissions from the input/output cables like your furnace).

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As others have mentioned, the electrical noise is best blocked at the source. I would think the brushes in the AC loco motors would emit the most noise.

Is this the same kind of thing that Chuck the brother suffers from in the TV show "better call Saul?"

Is your sensitivity in your whole body, or just your head?

How about a grounded copper window screen between you and the trains? That would be an effective RF shield.

With almost everyone on their cell phones constantly, it must be really agonizing.

Last edited by RoyBoy

Thank you for all of your suggestions. 

RoyBoy, I do not know the TV show you are referring to.  Continued exposure to the fields causes a number of symptoms, including a decrease in math and spelling skills, whole body feels like it is burning inside, continuous stomach and head aches, an increased difficulty in controlling emotions, inability to sleep, the list goes on.....   I am much better since moving to a different house that does not have fields from neighboring sources.  We are in a wooded, hilly area now and that helps a lot.  We turn off the power in many rooms at night to decrease the electrical fields and I am now able to sleep.  I am feeling better when I go out in public, but I have to limit exposure.  It is not very easy to find "safe" places to live.  5G is very scary because of the number of small cells being installed.  It makes it harder to escape. 

I printed out everything so I can study it more and start trying the things you all suggest.  I have a lot to learn.  I will let you know how I progress.  

I can't tell you all how much I appreciate your willingness to help.

O Gauge Guy posted:

Might it help to run either O or HO locos with only DC motors?  I was also thinking that, rather than using a transformer, the track could be powered by a large DC battery e.g. lead-acid car battery which could taken to a 'safe' location to be charged.

Yes, that is my idea as well. Actually, Lionel AC motors run just fine on straight DC. You can replace the E-unit with a bridge rectifier and switch directions by switching track polarity a la HO practice. If you install capacitors from each brush to ground as is now standard Lionel practice you would eliminate any tiny amount of ECM created by brush-commutator arcing. For power a DC car battery the way the O scale guys used to, being charged while you aren't in the room.

Lew

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