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Hello ALL:

 

For some modeling ideas, I have attached THE FIRST TWO  photos of an early Switch Tower on an IRT EL Line - the New Lots Line EL -  this older era style of Switch Tower House somewhat resembles the style and look of the O-Scale Plasticville Switch Tower House kit, readily available in the hobby.  These "small" towers were not only found on 1904-1920 era built NY EL Lines, but also on the very oldest 1880's built Brooklyn BRT-BMT and Manhattan IRT EL Lines.

 

ALSO shown are the SIX FOLLOWING photos of 3 of those O-Scale Plasticville Tower House, somewhat detail-up-scaled and repainted by me, as shown in various locations along the EL tracks, on my O-Scale NYC EL Layout.  Three different tower "location applications" are used: 

 

--One Tower is located between two tracks;

--One Tower is located at end of station platform;  

--One Tower is located along side of the main EL structure. 

 

These are 3 common locations found along most EL lines in the era of having numerous working, in use, towerhouses.

 

Regards - Joe F

 

 

IRT New Lots EL near Pennsy AV-Old IRT EL small tower-1999

IRT Tower-New Lots EL-Pennsy Av-1999

170_170-Sept.2008

171_171-Sept.2008

153_153-Sept.2008

155_155-Sept.2008

191_191-Sept.2008

175_175-Sept.2008

Attachments

Images (8)
  • IRT New Lots EL near Pennsy AV-Old IRT EL small tower-1999: Prototype early IRT EL Tower House - IRT New Lots Line EL
  • IRT Tower-New Lots EL-Pennsy Av-1999: Prototype early IRT EL Tower House - IRT New Lots Line EL
  • 170_170-Sept.2008: My own side of the EL Tower House, seen from street
  • 171_171-Sept.2008: My own side of the EL Tower House, seen from street
  • 153_153-Sept.2008: My own "between the tracks" Tower House
  • 155_155-Sept.2008: My own "between the tracks" Tower House
  • 191_191-Sept.2008: My own "end of station platfomr" Tower House
  • 175_175-Sept.2008: My own side of the EL Tower House,  catwalk level view
Last edited by Joseph Frank
Original Post

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Hello "Putnam" and, again, JON !

 

Glad you both enjoyed the photos. Even tho its only attempts at "modeling", I do strive for prototype realism as much as can be possible. 

 

Here BELOW are 3 prototype photos of one particular "between the tracks" tower house on the BMT Broadway (Brooklyn) EL Line just Eest of the Marcy Ave. EL Station. 

 

The First photo looking west towards East River (and Manhattan) shows, in 1910, a train of wooden BMT EL Gate cars coming off the Willy B Bridge to the junction with the "Main" El Line which, going straight ahead at left, which went a few blocks westward down to and ended at the East River and Broadway-Fulton Ferry Terminal.

 

The NEXT two photos show the same tower in present times,  and same basic direction of view, and as such the line to the FERRY terminal has been gone and removed for 60 years or so.

 

The LAST photo, heh, is a "reversal" of the 1910 era top photo, and closely replicates the junction modeled on my own EL seen in some of the photos at my earlier post.

 

Regards - Joe F

 

img_53586

img_71468

NYCS_JZ-Marcy-Ave-Sig-154-GT+tower

img_53586 [2)

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Images (4)
  • img_53586
  • img_71468
  • NYCS_JZ-Marcy-Ave-Sig-154-GT+tower
  • img_53586 (2)

Hello Spence

 

Thanks ! -- Here is another larger style IRT Tower on the 1903-4 built IRT West Farms EL in the Bronx - at the north end of the downtown Prospect Avenue Local Station platform.  Note how its out-rigged off the main structure. And has a controls and equipment room shed attached. This tower is no longer manned by tower crews.

 

Regards - Joe F

Prospect ve Tower-west Farms El-2014

Attachments

Images (1)
  • Prospect Ave Tower-IRT West Farms EL-Bronx 2014
@Lionel13 posted:

JOE DO YOU KNOW OF ANYONE WHO MAKES GATE CARS LIKE THE ONES THAT TRAVELED THE MYRTLE AVE EL IN BROOKLYN AND QUEENS  (O GAUGE)  RODE THOSE TRAINS MANY TIMES AS A YOUNG BOY  JOE THANKS FOR YOUR TIME LIONEL113  TONY U.

Hello Tony (U) ----

The ONLY one who made production model IRT and BMT EL gate Cars in O Scale -  was Quentin Carnicelli via his Q Car Company operation.  This was back in the 1970's thru 1990's.

For the IRT Lines he made a 6-4-6- window style IRT Gate Motor Car and matching IRT Gate trailer car;  He also made them for use as exact identical replicas of 6-4-6 window Chicago EL Gate motor and trailer Cars.

Also for the BMT Lines, Quentin made a 6-4-6 Window Gate Motor Car (which none were made in prototype that way) - a 6-4-6 BMT Gate Trailer Car,  and a 6-1- DOOR-1-6 Window Center Door Gate Motor Car, based on a converted 6-4-6 window carbody, as was done by the BMT in prototype.

These were master body part patterns ie:  A Roof,  a Side (as both sides of each car body were identical) - and carbody end face panel (as both ends were the same) ,  and a gate car  "end platform" master section.  He then made (cast from the hand made master parts) a rubber molds for EACH pilot master body part,  and using steel grit filled epoxy resin liquid, he cast each body part separately in that hard resin, to produce essentially what would be a Gate car Body in "kit" form.

Quentin himself then carefully assembled  EACH car to be sold, to become sold ONLY as a fully assembled completed body shell, and included end platform gate posts (4 on each platform)  and his own metal castings of the IRT style and BMT style end platform "side and end gates".  Motor cars had center headlight with a roof marker light on each side...trailers had plain roof.  He also produced the scale metal and appropriate trucks, underbody and interior seating for these cars - in cast metal detail parts.

UNFORTUNATELY -- Quentin has a few decades ago now, stopped all carbody production (including trolley cars he created and etc.,) to focus more on building trucks and selling them as well as his metal car detailing parts.  He is basically THE ONLY one doing so in O Scale 2 rail, since competitor ex-Wagner / later Current Line,  closed up about 2008

I and a number of my small O-Scale TWO-RAIL group of fellow NY Transit based modelers, back then many decades ago,  each bought a number of his IRT and BMT EL Gate car body shells.  A few of us - like myself, also HAND BUILT from scratch,  many more of our own IRT and BMT Wooden Elevated Cars representing various other body styles - classes of gate cars (and MUDC converted Closed end cars) - I have provided a few photos of only a small group of my many more various styles of hand built wooden EL cars and body styles I hand built.  Our cars are all detail-finished up with Q Car company proper authentic interior metal seating, proper authentic metal underbody equipment, and proper scale styles of metal motor & trailing trucks - including "in the truck" MOTORIZED units using Q Car underfloor motor drive units

The cars you speak of on the BMT Myrtle Ave EL,  which I rode and quite much photographed many times between 1955 and mid 1958 - were the BMT BU 1300 series all motor Gate "convertible" Cars and their mid 1958 later replacements, the Q Type MUDC enclosed ends ex-gate cars.  These were dominant on the Myrtle El from 1950 thru their removal by May 1958.  I have all the body and detail finishing parts and trucks to make ONE of those 1300 series cars in O Scale - sitting around for 20 years already.  All I need to do is hand build the body 2 sides, and assemble it all to become a fully completed 1300 series BMT Gate Motor Car .  Hopefully some day soon

BUT HERE IS A POSSIBLE SOLUTION --

I spoke to my good friend Joe Ogden of Island Model Works about a month ago.  And spoke to some of my other 2-rail O-Scale EL Car modelers -- and we agreed that it may be a marketable plan for IMW to do a BMT EL Gate Motor 1300 Series Carbody in O Scale -- as either fully closed (all windows in the body sides for winter use),  all open (as done in the teens and 1920's for summer use)  - or partially open (as done in the 1940's-50's for summer use.)

Problem is -- it is not easy to make an open end platform car in resin with a rubber mold.  The roof end-overhang ends and open platform floor "undercuts" at each end of the gate car body shell,  make it a problem getting the shell OUT FROM the rubber mold without stretching, breaking, tearing, or ruining the mold.  Like Q Car Co. did,  the body would have to be cast in parts,  and assembled.  Assembled by either Joe Ogden (as Quentin did) to a completed full body shell,  or sold as kits for the purchaser to assemble and finish up.    Finishing parts (interior seats, underbody hardware, trucks, roof details, could be supplied by and purchased separately from Q Car Company.  Unless  I M W  also produced those parts items in resin - as he has for other carbody projects he has done.

Contact (email) Joe Ogden at Island Body Works --re: your inquiry here -- via link:  http://www.islandmodelworks.com/  ..... and tell Joe about me and this thread.  I will send him a copy of this reply also.  Perhaps a number of us including now, you, can convince him to start this as a new project.  It is the ONLY way it will get done...I am sure.  Look at his O SCALE page on his website - he has done a few NY subway cars already - as well a commuter cars.

NOTE:  It has been nearly IMPOSSIBLE to find any of Q Car Co. Gate Car bodies for sale on ebay -- over the past 15 years !!!  They just don't show up ! As I well know !

PS: HERE is link to my own layout photos-website -----------  https://www.flickr.com/photos/44268069@N00/page1

regards - Joe F

Here is LINK to video of my fully scratch-built with full interiors,  5 car IRT Manhattan Elevated System "MUDC" class (ex IRT Gate cars converted to Multiple Unit Door Controlled)  EL Cars leaving a local station on my EL

https://www.flickr.com/photos/...m-72157643342514574/

bmt-el-gate-motor-620_5413760333_obmt-el-gate-motor-620_5412859898_obmt-el-gate-motor-620-leads-local-train_5412358963_oimg_0671_11883876645_oimg_0678_11884145085_oMy 3 scratch built BRT EL Gate Cars -6-2016Neg# 4331-1

Attachments

Images (7)
  • bmt-el-gate-motor-620_5413760333_o
  • bmt-el-gate-motor-620_5412859898_o
  • bmt-el-gate-motor-620-leads-local-train_5412358963_o
  • img_0671_11883876645_o
  • img_0678_11884145085_o
  • My 3 scratch built BRT EL Gate Cars -6-2016
  • Neg# 4331-1
Last edited by Joseph Frank

JOE THANKS FOR YOUR SPEEDY REPLY  YOUR WAY MORE KNOWLEDGEABLE ON ELS THAN ME BUT I REALLY ENJOYED READIING YOUR MESSAGE  BRINGS BACK MANY DAYS AS A YOUNG KID RIDING THE MYRTLE AVE EL  GREW UP AT FRESH POND AND METROPOLITAN AVE  ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THAT LOCATION. I'LL BE FOLLOWING YOU ON O GAUGE AND LOOK FORWARD TO READ ALL YOU GUYS WRITE ABOUT AND HOPEFULLY BE COME BETTER EDUCATED.  TONY

@Lionel13 posted:

JOE THANKS FOR YOUR SPEEDY REPLY  YOUR WAY MORE KNOWLEDGEABLE ON ELS THAN ME BUT I REALLY ENJOYED READIING YOUR MESSAGE  BRINGS BACK MANY DAYS AS A YOUNG KID RIDING THE MYRTLE AVE EL  GREW UP AT FRESH POND AND METROPOLITAN AVE  ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THAT LOCATION. I'LL BE FOLLOWING YOU ON O GAUGE AND LOOK FORWARD TO READ ALL YOU GUYS WRITE ABOUT AND HOPEFULLY BE COME BETTER EDUCATED.  TONY

Hello Tony

Yes, I know Fresh Pond station and yards area very well -- I walked the yards and took photos of the Q Types back in 1960 at track level -- also walked the EL itself (on the track catwalks) and took photos along parts of the line in the mid 60's.  Two pals of mine (one deceased)  grew up next to the Fresh Pond Depot and to this day (well, not the deceased one at this time, heh)  still have fond memories of the area by Fresh Pond Station & Yards and area.  These were guys in the late 1940's thru late 1950's in that area.  One moved to Oregon with his family back in mid 1960's -- is living still there around Portland today,  married, etc.  Karl Matchantz -- he and I fro decades have shared his Myrtle El memories riding it and of his Fresh Pond neighborhood.  He remember streetcars in the area back in 1950's !  At OGR you likely can search-look up the scores of old posts and threads I made with photos and history and etc

Here below are some of my photos - and a few in my collection,.  Have about 600 +  photos of the line and a few hundred color slides.  YOU know WHERE these scenes are taken below ....!

Below - April 1958

.Newly shopped ex-3AV EL Q types- Myrtle El fresh Pond Yards-4-1958

BELOW - 1957

Fresh Pond Yd -BMT Myrtle Av El-1950's

BELOW - Aug. 1963

N at Fresh Pond ramps-Myrtle El-8-1963

BELOW - 1962

Myrtle El- inbound train to Fresh Pond STA-1962

BELOW - 1950 - as my pal Karl M remembers it as a kid - Fresh Pond Station

Fresh Pond Rd & Myrtle Ave EL-1950

BELOW - Fantrip in 1958 on 1300's just before entire fleet replaced by trains of ex-3rd Ave EL Q Types.

Myrtle El-Fresh Pond Rd-1958

Regards - Joe F (aka IRTELMAN)

Attachments

Images (6)
  • Newly shopped ex-3AV EL Q types- Myrtle El fresh Pond Yards-4-1958
  • N at Fresh Pond ramps-Myrtle El-8-1963
  • Myrtle El- inbound train to Fresh Pond STA-1962
  • Fresh Pond Rd & Myrtle Ave EL-1950
  • Myrtle El-Fresh Pond Rd-1958
  • Fresh Pond Yd -BMT Myrtle Av El-1950's
Last edited by Joseph Frank

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...1#154307984289634101

From: West side Joe  ..."Boy, Joe, as usual, I have to do double takes to make sure I'm looking at a model and not the real thing. Tremendous!'

Hello W S Joe

Thanks much.  appreciated.  And YOUR subway station and modeling work does the same for me.  You have a great eye for DETAIL and tiny details -- and your assembling work is sharp, neat and clean - done with care and skill - and not hastily - and as mass produced ,  not "sloppy" .   Others are my  pals Joe Porretto and Steve (aka SIRT) Phetterplace.  You are in our class league,   WS Joe !  I love seeing and I have saved to a folder file, your modeling  photos.

Hello ALL:



For some modeling ideas, I have attached THE FIRST TWO  photos of an early Switch Tower on an IRT EL Line - the New Lots Line EL -  this older era style of Switch Tower House somewhat resembles the style and look of the O-Scale Plasticville Switch Tower House kit, readily available in the hobby.  These "small" towers were not only found on 1904-1920 era built NY EL Lines, but also on the very oldest 1880's built Brooklyn BRT-BMT and Manhattan IRT EL Lines.



ALSO shown are the SIX FOLLOWING photos of 3 of those O-Scale Plasticville Tower House, somewhat detail-up-scaled and repainted by me, as shown in various locations along the EL tracks, on my O-Scale NYC EL Layout.  Three different tower "location applications" are used:



--One Tower is located between two tracks;

--One Tower is located at end of station platform; 

--One Tower is located along side of the main EL structure.



These are 3 common locations found along most EL lines in the era of having numerous working, in use, towerhouses.



Regards - Joe F





IRT New Lots EL near Pennsy AV-Old IRT EL small tower-1999

IRT Tower-New Lots EL-Pennsy Av-1999

170_170-Sept.2008

171_171-Sept.2008

153_153-Sept.2008

155_155-Sept.2008

191_191-Sept.2008

175_175-Sept.2008

Here is a Plasticville Tower repainted.

IMG_3118

Attachments

Images (1)
  • IMG_3118

Hello Gene



VERY NICE clean repaint job on that Plasticville Tower.  Very attractive too !!   In my case,  old BMT and IRT  systems (later more so after NY City Transit operation mid-1940 take-over) Towers were mainly painted in one body color - that dark green - from 1940 thru early 1960's  After that some were repainted in the various system colors (blue, tan, etc.) of the later NYCTA  and newer MTA operators.  My  towers represent the 1940's NYC Transit era. (and easier and faster to repaint) .  The smaller building is a trackside, storage, maintenance and track-walker shanty.



189_189-sept2008_5505332359_o190_190-sept2008_5505332471_o

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Images (2)
  • 189_189-sept2008_5505332359_o
  • 190_190-sept2008_5505332471_o
Last edited by Joseph Frank

George, Zoo interlocking is on a man made earthen elevation; there isn’t anything resembling a subway-elevated structure. It’s where the northeast corridor splits with the Keystone corridor (Paoli, Harrisburg, Pittsburgh) as well as several commuter lines. For those who aren’t familiar with the area it’s called Zoo interlocking because it sits opposite the Philadelphia Zoo.

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