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I have traveled the Empire Builder from Chicago to Whitefish, Montana.  The roomettes are terrible. The food is good unless Amtrak has changed the menu in the last year. It was more or less on time going west, but going east it was 4 hours late into Chicago. Have you priced the bedrooms? They are very expensive. We took them both ways. You have to make your reservations very early, They sell out of bedrooms very fast. We made our reservations almost a year early.

Last edited by eddie g

My wife and I have ridden the Builder a half dozen times over the past decade, all being in the fall. The first trip was in coach. While the seating is quite comfortable with good legroom and reclining backs, you do get some kinks from not lying out flat. Best seats for coach riding are two-thirds back from the front of the car. The very end seats are noisy from people going through the vestibules. The middle seats have people going up and down the staircase where the lights are on all night.

The roomettes are cramped, but private. Whoever gets the top bunk needs to be a bit of a contortionist. Once in place, the bed comfort is pretty decent. During the day, we would leave the door open for better air circulation if the roomette was on the sunny side of the train. Take along some safety pins for the curtains! They open and close horizontally so if you want to cut down some of the sun glare, you can use the pins to pin the curtains upward vertically. That way you can still see the whole panorama.

In the middle of the night, the train splits at Spokane where the rear half and lounge car becomes the Portland section while the front half and diner continue to Seattle. The Seattle section gets to ride through the Cascade tunnel while the Portland section gets the Columbia River Gorge views.

As Eddie said, the diner food was quite decent. If you get the roomette, your meals are included. You won't go hungry! Going coach, the lounge car has food service from 6AM to 10PM or so. The fare is the standard box lunch stuff; bagels, salads, hot dogs, hamburgers, etc., plus soft drinks, wine, beer, and coffee.

The scenery is gorgeous. Urban Chicago and Milwaukee changes to the north woods of Wisconsin. From Minneapolis the scenery goes flat through the Detroit Lakes. That stretch is usually done after dark. It is (or was) a stretch of jointed rail so the speed limit is lower and the ride is pretty rocky. If you are in the upper bunk, you will be glad you have the netting to keep you in place! 

On towards Minot, there are vast farmlands. Havre is a crew change spot where you can get off for a while to stretch your legs. West of Cut Bank and into East Glacier, the scenery becomes mountainous. When we travelled in the fall, it would be nearly dark then.

A few observances: In the summer, there will be children riding in the coaches - not all parents are attentive. There will be a number of smokers who will be standing by the doors when the train makes some of the longer station stops. Not everyone knows how to flush a toilet! I still think there is a contest between North Dakota and Montana to see who can stack the most scrap metal in their back yard!    

I would advocate anyone to take the trip if they can. It's an adventure!  

Neil 

We rode the Builder from St. Paul to Chicago and return a couple of years ago.  This is the former Milwaukee Road.  The scenery along the Mississippi River was quite nice and the track was smooth.  The Engineer on the eastward trip out of LaCrosse was awful  Among other things, she had to make a double stop at the short Wisconsin Dells station platform, a normal occurrence because of the train length.  It was two rough stops.  Other than poor train handling from LaCrosse to Chicago, it was a good trip.  We intend to ride it all the way this year.

Last edited by Number 90

You can go online and take the trip with people who have filmed most of it, so that's a good way to preview what to expect. The portion along the Mississippi from LaCrosse to St. Paul is nice. That's the old stomping ground of the CNW 400, the Milwaukee Road Hiawatha and the Burlington Zephyrs.  Western Minnesota through N. Dakota and the eastern 3/4 of Montana is not very scenic - mostly relatively flat prairie, it seemed like. Western Montana to the coast has a lot of scenery to offer.

Booked a roomette in early October! Headed west to Seattle out of Chicago, Starting in Champaign. Looking forward to getting away.  Just me this time. Gonna see a ballgame in Seattle and drive out to visit a friend’s grave in Yakima then fly home the next day. Got a reasonable rate since it’s later in the season. I’ll post my experiences here when I go. 👍🏻

Last edited by N&W 1218

It's been a while since we rode this, but here's what I remember.  We rode in a sleeper (not roomette) and had 2 rooms for 3 of us, so more space to stretch out.  Sleeping was easy the first night (Minneapolis through most of North Dakota), but sleeping the second night was more difficult because of "squealing" wheels as we went through the "curvy-route" Rockies and because of the train-shuffling at Spokane.  Food was fine, and, as we had to be willing to share our table, we met some interesting people with stories to trade.  You do see some nice Washington State scenery on the morning of your second day and some nice Montana scenery late in your first day.  Unfortunately, if running on time, you will sleep through all of Idaho and most of the Rocky Mountains.

Like one of the commenters above, we elected to fly back (cheaper, faster and wife's option!).

Last edited by PRR1950

The last two times we traveled long-distance by Amtrak, the snack bar ran out of cheeseburger, pizza, deli sandwich and hot pocket items, as the train progressed, and was resupplied only once in 2200 miles.  Coach passengers were out of luck when asking to eat in the dining car.  So, if you intend to travel by coach and the train will be on its second day out from its originating terminal, I'd suggest that you take something to sustain your hunger if the snack bar runs out of food items.

Also, on this topic, the snack bar now has one employee instead of two, and no matter how many passengers are waiting in line, when it comes time for the employee's break, everything stops.  

One last thing about coach travel: Some of the passengers try to take two seats, and have other social behavior impediments.  In this matter, it is a spin of the wheel of fortune.

@Number 90 posted:

The last two times we traveled long-distance by Amtrak, the snack bar ran out of cheeseburger, pizza, deli sandwich and hot pocket items, as the train progressed, and was resupplied only once in 2200 miles.  Coach passengers were out of luck when asking to eat in the dining car.  So, if you intend to travel by coach and the train will be on its second day out from its originating terminal, I'd suggest that you take something to sustain your hunger if the snack bar runs out of food items.

Also, on this topic, the snack bar now has one employee instead of two, and no matter how many passengers are waiting in line, when it comes time for the employee's break, everything stops.  

One last thing about coach travel: Some of the passengers try to take two seats, and have other social behavior impediments.  In this matter, it is a spin of the wheel of fortune.

N&W booked a roomette (smart), so won’t be traveling that long journey by day coach. One thing the wife and I learned years ago was NEVER travel on Amtrak’s overland routes in coach. And yes, it’s best to take the train out, then fly back. You’ll be glad you did. 😉

Last edited by Yellowstone Special

The Builder takes the old Milwaukee Road mainline along the west bank of the Mississippi south of Hastings MN, so if possible you'd want to be on the east side of the train, facing the river. The view from the other side is mostly just steep bluffs - a bit like the old New York Central mainline along the Hudson river north of New York City.

Return trip to Pennsylvania:   Open plains, somewhat boring.  Eventually, I upset the GPS, and headed north to the Michigan peninsula. Point was to cross the Saginaw Bridge. Both Wisconsin and the upper Michigan peninsula were worth the extra time and effort.  IMO, Mike CT.   Most noted experience, was coming over a small rise, and seeing nothing but Sunflowers for ever. There was also Canola fields, something rare east of the Mississippi.

Last edited by Mike CT

I had dinner in the dining car at 6:45. I chose the last seating time slot. The food was delicious. I had the Shrimp appetizer, the Salmon main course, and the Carrot cake for desert. No Lemon cake option which worked out perfectly because Carrotcake is my favorite. 😎 Below is the menu and my selections plus the blueberry cheese cake and Panko chicken that a gentleman had sitting at my table.

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0F80F9AC-AFA7-44FF-BFA8-C3EFFC3C3EC9Cheddar cheese melted on top of the eggs. The food has been great! I ate blueberry cheesecake for dessert at lunchtime and I hate cheesecake. It was very good. (Photo Above) I like my scrambled eggs moist and they were moist and tasty.

They track hasn’t been bad. I’ve been very surprised on the schedule we’ve been able to maintain. Had to stop and wait on a BNSF freight once.


ETA in Seattle is tomorrow (Tuesday) morning at 11:30.

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Last edited by N&W 1218

Shelby, Montana station stop. Got a chance to scrub my window before we get to Glacier National Park. Even though it will be dark at least I’ll get to see the dark. 🤪

L to R - Robin, Me, Karen. Our sleeping car attendants. Karen is in training. The platform in Shelby looked brand new, very nice!

One of the greatest parts of this trip is meeting all of the people. My neighbor is a former Las Vegas slot machine tech who now lives in Milwaukee. The folks on our end of the car are from Scotland, Mother/Son. Mum drives a bus shuttling old folks around and son drives a taxi shuttling people to St. Andrews golf course. I met a very nice couple from Ohio who met in West Virginia. They have been married 63 years and he’s a train nut, she just gets that he’s a train nut and tags along. They’re getting off at Essex and staying at the Izaak Walton Inn. They get a room overlooking the tracks and he spends 4 days watching trains. Ooops gotta go I got dinner reservations at 6:45. 😎

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Last edited by N&W 1218

WooHoo!  The dining looks incredibly improved. Since 2008, I have been on the Empire Builder for 11 round trips, and I had to watch the service go downhill. This looks much improved. On the 13th, I am heading out to Sacramento on the California Zephyr, hoping the menu is equally fine. If you happen to see any money whirling about in the Cascades, that's my pension spent on Amtrak. (So who needs underwear?)

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Ed, I had the Signature Amtrak Flat Iron Steak with baked potato this evening and it was cooked as I ordered it, Medium, very tasty. Have fun on the Zephyr 👍🏻 Oh, and I couldn’t pass it up I had another slice of that blueberry cheesecake! Mmmmmmm

Chuck we switched to Mountain time at the east end of Montana and we’ll switch again before breakfast which starts at 6:00 Pacific time. 😎

We’re due in Whitefish just before 10:00, 10 minutes early. 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻 That’s a fresh air stop (smoke break) you can de train on the platform for a few minutes.

Lastly, there’s that great couple that got off at Essex. Here’s to trains running all night long Jim!!!

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It looks like you're having a grand time on this version of the Empire Builder.  The dining car fare looks wonderful has to be better than box meals from the lounge car.  Chicago Union Station looks beautiful.

074FD0E2-504F-4A85-9F95-65305A3E2993Love the panoramic view.

50333DDF-8A94-4E77-8D35-687B2E7DBC4BWhere's Ness and the bookkeeper?

0FA90980-A137-416B-8A5F-F5A48BE63C20Whatever it's called now it will always be Sears Tower to me.  My brother lost his job with Sears when they moved headquarters fromNew York to the Tower in Chicago.

Back in 2003 I lost a very good friend, Cary Bassani. He was an O gauger and a forum member. He passed away suddenly and was buried back in Yakima Washington where he grew up. His wife asked me to design something for his grave stone and you’ll see it below. Cary was a huge Big Boy Union Pacific guy. He would have loved to see the 4014 and I like to think he did. 😎 With the Big Boy series being 4000 numbers I decided on 4603. He was 46 and died in ‘03. The small brick at the lower left corner is a replica of a brick that is at the National Toy Train Museum in Strasburg, PA. Cary and I attend York in 2000 and 2002. The brick lists all the members in our small model train club here in East Central Illinois. Cary came up with the club name (CIT) Central Illinois Tinners. Tinners for the track we ran on and it was also a play on words because he was a professional Opera singer that sang Tenor. 😎 It was great to see Cary’s final resting place with Mt. Rainier off in the distance. I was also able to visit and tour where he grew up. His Dad owned apple ground and his brother Alan still does.

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Cary’s Gravestone

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Last edited by N&W 1218

After I got off the train on Tuesday I attended the Seattle Mariners/Detroit Tigers true doubleheader (1 ticket - 2 games). Had a great time. The Mariners are an AL wildcard team. Yes that’s me, Die hard Cub fan in all my Mariners gear. When in Rome …….. I collect hats anyway. 😎

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Good Luck in the playoffs Mariners!!!!

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Amtrak facility from the stadium

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Last edited by N&W 1218

Great report on your trip'..  Many of your pics did not post.. Love to see them..  I recently rode an Amtrak Regional to Boston.. Average speed was 105 MPH.  Do you know what speeds your train traveled at.. And yes, Washington State is a very beautiful state'... I spent time at Fort Lewis in the late 70s.. I did love it in the Pacific North West.  Thanks for taking the time posting your adventure'..👍😉

After paying my respects at the cemetery, I got a tour of Cary’s childhood home. I got lucky because the apple harvest was 2 weeks late because of a cold snap in the spring.

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Cary’s brother Alan on our touring vehicle

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Red Delicious and they were!!!

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Granny Smith bunches

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One I picked

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Plywood lined boxes ready to be picked up

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Those same boxes in the field

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Apples that are first put in a water bath

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coming out of the waxer

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Separated by quality

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Pictures taken and then computer separated

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Quality Control Station

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There’s that darn machine that puts the sticker on. 😳

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Great report, Kevin.  Thanks for all the extra work you did en route.  Personally, I am happy that Amtrak and BNSF both came through with good service.  What a fortunate coincidence that you were able to watch a double header Mariners baseball game.  Even on the upper deck, a baseball game is easy to watch and always engaging.  Nothing else can equal the feeling of being in a true family of fans that Cubs games do, but the railroad running right over the wall at T-Mobile Park is a great feature!  

And you get a tip of the hat for visiting the earthly resting place and the family of your friend, Cary - a very decent thing to do.  That makes a statement about your character.

Last edited by Number 90

Thanks Tom!
I decided my adventure wouldn’t be complete without posting photos of the CIT Train club through the years.

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March 2003 - L to R - Me, Jerry, Stan, Don, & Cary. This was Don’s 70th Birthday party. It’s just Don and I left today. Don will be 90 this March 1, 2023.

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Cary at VTM in June 2003

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Last train meeting with Cary October 1, 2003, 3 days before he passed away. Don left, Cary right.

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IRM Visit L to R - Me, Jerry, Kevin Ehlers, Don, & Zach Ehlers.

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RailFest 2009 L to R - Me, Zach, Don, & Kevin

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Train Meeting at Don’s L to R - Back Row - Rick, Fred, Stan, Joe, Chuck, Front Row - Me, Jerry, & Don.

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Breakfast before a Train Meeting over Christmas Holiday. L to R - Rick, Ron, Don, Me, Fred, & Jerry. Chuck took the photo 👍🏻

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L to R - Jerry, Me, Fred, Chuck, Don, & Stan. This was the Last Train Meeting with Jerry & Stan. We lost Jerry and Stan in 2020.

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@N&W 1218 posted:

After I got off the train on Tuesday I attended the Seattle Mariners/Detroit Tigers true doubleheader (1 ticket - 2 games). Had a great time. The Mariners are an AL wildcard team. Yes that’s me, Die hard Cub fan in all my Mariners gear. When in Rome …….. I collect hats anyway. 😎

D05CB70F-123A-4723-8318-ABE2D9180999

Good Luck in the playoffs Mariners!!!!



Hey Kevin, thanks for sharing your posts about the trip. As an FYI, Ron Santo, a beloved Cub and MLB hall of famer, grew up in Seattle, also Tacoma was the AAA affiliated for the Cubs in the late 1960s, so your Cub gear would not be offensive.       

Kevin,

I missed this thread early, but happy to catch up now. I also was at the Mariners game, as I live just across the water on Bainbridge Island.

For the last 15 years or so, I have been taking the Empire Builder from Seattle to the Izzak Walton Inn located inside Glacier Park at a stop called Essex. It is an old Great Northern bunkhouse converted into a hotel, restaurant, and bar at the edge of the BNSF yard on the westside of Mariahs Pass. For anyone traveling on the Empire Builder staying a day or two at the Izzak Walton before continuing on is worth it, lots of BNSF action and local hiking or catch an open touring car and see Glacier Park.

I often take the Portland section at Spokane where they split the Builder going home. This leg takes you through the Columbia River Gorge, also incredibly scenic like Steven's pass to the north on the Seattle to Spokane leg.  A day in Portland and catch the Starlight north to Seattle.

When you emerged from the Cascade tunnel you were only a few miles below the location of the Wellington train disaster of 1910, when 96 lost their lives; detailed in the book "The White Cascade" a real interesting read.

Anyways I wish I had known you would be hangin in Seattle I would have invited you to the Island for a scotch and railroad history conversation, thank you for the video and pics, excuse the smoke on the westside of Steven's Pass, big wildfire near Index WA.

kevin

@Number 90 posted:

We rode the Builder from St. Paul to Chicago and return a couple of years ago ...  The Engineer on the eastward trip out of LaCrosse was awful … she had to make a double stop at the short Wisconsin Dells station platform … two rough stops.  Other than poor train handling … it was a good trip.

Train handling can make the difference between an enjoyable trip and one that you regret.

Years ago I was riding a CSX/Amtrak train north out of Miami to Jacksonville. CSX had put their theater car on the rear of the train, and I was enjoying the ride back there with my host Dick Young, who was the Vice President of Passenger Services at CSX. The car had a speedometer and a gauge showing the pressure in the brake pipe.

We were rolling along at 79 mph when I felt the brakes come on - HARD. I looked at the brake pipe gauge and realized that the engineer had made what is called a “Full Service Application” of the brakes. This is the hardest you can apply the brakes without setting them to the “emergency” position. Dick noticed me looking at the gauge. He turned to me and simply said, “Watch this.”

With a full service application set, our speed was dropping fast! In railroad terms, the engineer was “drivin’ ‘em in and settin’ ‘em down.” As we slowed to below 20 mph, I saw the brake pipe pressure coming back up, and felt the brakes ease off a bit. The brake system on this train was set up for “Graduated Release” which means the engineer can gradually ease off the brakes, something you cannot do with a freight train.

A moment later we eased to to a very smooth stop with no slack action at all. It was a perfect “stretch braked” stop. A second after we stopped, I heard one only word on the radio - “Perfect.”

The stop was at Delray Beach, where the platform at the time was only 10 feet long! The engineer had to position the vestibules of the 3rd and 4th car centered on that platform. He did it perfectly, with no car length countdown from the conductor. It was, as the conductor had said on the radio, “Perfect.”

That was the most impressive demonstration of smooth and precise train handling I had ever seen.

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