Empire Express Request

agree with Steve 100%... this is one tough piece to find in any condition.  not sure if your pilot is original paint.  i have never seen one (of the 3 or 4 i have seen) with a red pilot.  you also might be missing the pantograph.

 

Flyer Hummer No.7 - 03

 

only one of two (the other being the Dorfan #145) tinplate (litho) electric outline, clockwork locomotives that i know of.

 

cheers...gary

 

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Originally Posted by overlandflyer:

agree with Steve 100%... this is one tough piece to find in any condition.  not sure if your pilot is original paint.  i have never seen one (of the 3 or 4 i have seen) with a red pilot.  you also might be missing the pantograph.

 

Flyer Hummer No.7 - 03

 

only one of two (the other being the Dorfan #145) tinplate (litho) electric outline, clockwork locomotives that i know of.

 

cheers...gary

You mean the cowcatcher?(*pilot?) I'll double check to see if it's been painted over with red. I always did question why it was red and not like the rest of the body, orange.

 

Originally Posted by Elgaucho:

... Yes, the pantograph is missing... but will replace it with a 1096 AF model. I believe they're identical.

Has anyone replaced pantographs by the way?...

the pantograph is a single U-shaped piece held in place with a single brass rivet similar to the other two holding the motor mount to the roof.  4-40 hardware would probably work in lieu of a rivet.

 

and yes, the "pilot" which likely got the name from usually being located adjacent to a steam locomotive's front pilot truck (due to its function of "steering" the locomotive drive wheels into curves) is another name for a cow catcher which IMO is one of the more poorly named appliances unless "catch" had a different meaning in the 19th century.

 

good luck with the repair.

cheers...gary

 

Originally Posted by overlandflyer:
Originally Posted by Elgaucho:

... Yes, the pantograph is missing... but will replace it with a 1096 AF model. I believe they're identical.

Has anyone replaced pantographs by the way?...

the pantograph is a single U-shaped piece held in place with a single brass rivet similar to the other two holding the motor mount to the roof.  4-40 hardware would probably work in lieu of a rivet.

 

and yes, the "pilot" which likely got the name from usually being located adjacent to a steam locomotive's front pilot truck (due to its function of "steering" the locomotive drive wheels into curves) is another name for a cow catcher which IMO is one of the more poorly named appliances unless "catch" had a different meaning in the 19th century.

 

good luck with the repair.

cheers...gary

Thanks Gary! I'll try that rivet option. Maybe a hardware store man can help me with that.

I believe cow catchers "did" do what they were called way back in the 19th century actually. If you look at trolleys from back then, they were shaped like an open-palmed hand... to literally "catch" a poor animal (*or human) victim (haha!) Steam locomotives catchers where shaped like a "V" ... probably to "hit" the victim out of the way!! (eek!)

here are a few more photos of my No.7...

 

Flyer Hummer No.7 - 01

the roof is a bit more marred than what shows in the pictures, but i might still rate it as a VG+.  interesting that i looked up the Greenberg data (actually page 200) and the book claims that for this livery the pilot would be black.  as i've said, though, i've seen the orange pilot with this livery before.  there is a red/black version that i've only seen once.  thought i saved a picture of it, but my photo filing system isn't the most user friendly.

 

Flyer Hummer No.7 - 02

 

a look at the interior and the small Flyer motor.  the rivet attached bracket makes it simple to remove the motor.  make sure it's wound when trying to replace it, though.

 

Flyer Hummer No.7 - 04

 

by the way, the regular consumer catalogs i have (1927 & 1928), do not list the AF Hummer line trains.

 

cheers...gary

 

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I'm testing this neat set on its original two-rail AF tracks... And the darn thing can't seem to stay on tight curves!! I realize the two axels need to be close together, for tight curves, but this windup in particular, seems the axels are TOO close together(throwing engine off balance on curves)
Any suggestions?
(*Still love my wind ups though... Haha!)

IMAG3259s

The pantograph seems like it's been sawed off.
Is there a way to replace it with an identical AF pantograph using a similar rivet?

 

OH!! And to Gary... I think you were right! The pilot looks like it might have been painted red. Though, I dont know WHY! It'd look nicer in orange or black.

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boy that is one mangled remnant.  ^^^

 

here is a close-up of the pantograph...

 

No.7-pant

i measured it with calipers this morning and the material is 0.05" steel.  with the bottom piece slightly curved to match the roof contour, the single rivet really holds it on solidly.

 

not sure if i'm using the right term here, but these small Flyer motors had a very crude pallet-type governor.  to adjust the speed, you are better off putting a heavier load behind the loco, not fully winding the spring or the best solution to have access to a layout with wider radius curves.  i know what you mean, though, with a well maintained/ oiled motor, this very light loco is quite a speedy little guy.

 

cheers...gary

 

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Thanks Gary! Great info!
Come to think of it.... the "base" of the rivet is still in place. I'd just need to take the new pantograph(*without its rivet) and insert it! Then, fold back down the edges, that are pointing up in the air right now. Right!?

 

Regarding the motor.... it IS reeeally light weight! The slightest bump or mis-gauge measurement on the track... and the motor's OFF the rails. I can't see me running this on my "elevated" track.... which is what I really want to do. Seems like heavier cast iron Hafner locos run better on it(*because of their weight) 

 

I thought about constructing a "wire railing" along the curves.. like old Marklin/Bing elevated tracks...... but I run the risk of ruining the litho with scratches to the body.

 

Also check the gauging of the track. That track bends easily and it may be out of gauge in spots.
 
Steve
 
 
Originally Posted by Elgaucho:
I'm testing this neat set on its original two-rail AF tracks... And the darn thing can't seem to stay on tight curves!! I realize the two axels need to be close together, for tight curves, but this windup in particular, seems the axels are TOO close together(throwing engine off balance on curves)
Any suggestions?
(*Still love my wind ups though... Haha!)

 

Steve "Papa" Eastman

Yorba Linda, CA

Left Coast, Home of the lunatics

With a "run what you've got" thought, I see room for fishing sinkers and stainless wire hanging from the motor tabs (a low buck reversible mod)

Wrapped in electrical and foam tape the sinker doesn't "cow bell" or bend over time.

 

I'm envious again. Nice find.

"Still trying to not shoot my eye out"

 

"Nursing insomnia one railcar at a time"

My aroma therapy? Smoke Pellets.

 





  I'm assuming you use your screen name on other sites.  Someone with your handle asked the same question elsewhere. If that wasn't you then here is the information:

 

#7 Wind up Boxcab Electric
 
  The little engine was first shown in the American Flyer 1928 Advanced Trade Catalog.  It was listed as heading up two sets #722 and #723. Set #722 had two #517 Empire Express cars while set #723 had two slightly larger #515 series passenger cars. Both set descriptions indicated the cars were lithographed to match the lithography of the engine.  Schuweiler’s book on AF O gauge reports two locomotive color combinations: 1) Red sides, orange top and pilot, and green details in emerald and olive with emerald green “Empire Express” lettering. 2) Orange sides, green top, black pilot, and green and black details with black “Empire Express” lettering. 
 
The sets are listed in the 1929 and 1930 dealer price sheets (9 and 12 dollars a dozen respectively). In 1931 only set #722 was listed with the addition of two #516 series passenger cars. Neither the locomotive nor the set are listed in the 1932 dealer price sheet.

Catalog1

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Thanks Robert. I don't normally check that other site, or get notifications, so this info is great!
I also like the higher res scan of the trade catalog. Really informative.
And Gary, yes I was also wondering about the 515 & 517 cars. Looks like both our sets are valid. Cheers!
Ariel

 I ran a quick post/delete test with the image in my post above on a couple of other sites. The issue isn't one of resolution rather it is one of permissible file size. The result is the difference between being able to read the fine print and not being able to quite make out what is there.

nice job on restoring the pantograph.

 

in case you're ready for another challenging piece, i might suggest...

 

Dorfan99-100 - No.145

Dorfan's similar small boxcab electric outline locomotive.

 

or you can get really crazy and try to find both versions...

 

IMG_2385

one of the things i enjoy most about old tinplate is that you can never assume there's nothing more to look for.

 

cheers...gary

 

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Gary..... Although I'm always on a tight budget.... I can't help but dream about my next clockwork wonder(*haha!)

This Dorfan Boxcab loco would certainly fall under a "wishbook" train for my cityscape elevated layout.

Do you know of any available somewhere?...

 

BTW..... What's the difference between the two Dorfans?? (The type of coupler on the one end as in your photo?)

Originally Posted by Elgaucho:

Gary..... Although I'm always on a tight budget.... I can't help but dream about my next clockwork wonder(*haha!)

This Dorfan Boxcab loco would certainly fall under a "wishbook" train for my cityscape elevated layout.

Do you know of any available somewhere?...

 

BTW..... What's the difference between the two Dorfans?? (The type of coupler on the one end as in your photo?)

funny how things go...  i was looking for both the EE #7 and the Dorfan #145 for probably more than a decade.  i passed on more than a couple #7's due to both condition and price, then in less than a month i picked up both locomotives including the pair (in separate auctions) of the Dorfan engines.

 

yes, it is merely the different coupler genders that distinguish the two Dorfan models, but enough of a variation that i'm going to keep both.  i've seen three other pictures of this engine, two with a slot connector and one other with a tab, but at this point i'm still not sure if there is a 50-50 mix of the two types or if one is less common.

 

the Greenberg (McKenny) book indicates there is a red livery #145 (though i'm not 100% convinced it isn't merely a very dark orange), so there might still be something to look for.

 

fun stuff!...gary

 

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