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Recently, we redid the wiring on our club's large O gauge layout. Before, it was a combination of star wiring on the three circular loops, and a bus wire on an extension that branches off from the outer loop and wraps around the room. One of our members is an electrical engineering student, and he redid the wiring into an all-bus wire configuration (using suitcase connectors). Before the rewiring, we were able to operate all our PS2 and PS3 engines, with occasional weak signals, but all the engines were read from the DCS remote and from our phones (we run DCS 6.00 on a REV L  TIU with the WIU and a TMCC base connected). After the rewiring, engines could only be picked up by any device (including the remote) sporadically at best. As in, whenever the READ key was pressed, not all the engines on the track would be picked up. I became convinced that the issue lay in the bus wiring, and today, I rewired the outermost loop of the layout (which has three power drops) into a star-wired pattern (an individual feed to each drop), while leaving the inner loops unchanged (in bus) and the extension electrically isolated. However, when I went to test the setup, only our PS3 GP20 (30-20092-1) was picked up on anyone's device. The other two engines on the track, a K4 (30-1478-1) and a SW1500 (30-2749-1, hardly a year out of an overhaul by MTH) were not picked up; they remained silent, until there was a deliberately caused short (in trying to connect the circuits for the inner and outer loops) at which point both engines fired up, unbidden, but were still unresponsive. Most odd of all, however, was that whether the GP20 was running on the star-wired outer loop, or the bus-wired inner loop, when asked to do a signal test, the engine read the signal as a 10. 

I'm at a loss as to why we can't pick up the K4 and SW1500. The electrical engineering student thinks it could be that the batteries (neither has been replaced with a BCR, as far as I know, since both engines were donated) are flat, which is possible, since we don't run the trains every week, but I think there's something else as well. 

Any ideas?

Could it be low batteries in combination with a weak DCS signal?

Last edited by pittsburghrailfan
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For DCS, buss wiring for the ground (outside rail) circuit is fine.  For conventional, buss for the hot is also ok.  BUT, buss wiring doesn't work for DCS hot if you have multiple feeds to the hot center rail without dividing it into blocks, each with a single feed.  Depending on the expectable variations in electric characteristics among identical electromnics, some engines are more able to live with your wiring mess than others.

This is not a battery issue.

I'm actually having the same problem as you. I'm actually in the middle of rewiring my layout. A 16ft long by 4ft wide board, I have 3 drops on one section of my outer loop (needed them for power purposes) and on that loop, a PS3 engine will run fine but a PS2 (5v or 3v) won't respond to command or, like your problem, if the read key is pressed, the remote will find the PS3 engine but not the PS2. My inner loop otoh, works just find with PS2 stuff. Although, it only has one drop for power until I get more wire. 

RJR posted:

For DCS, buss wiring for the ground (outside rail) circuit is fine.  For conventional, buss for the hot is also ok.  BUT, buss wiring doesn't work for DCS hot if you have multiple feeds to the hot center rail without dividing it into blocks, each with a single feed.  Depending on the expectable variations in electric characteristics among identical electromnics, some engines are more able to live with your wiring mess than others.

This is not a battery issue.

So the solution, then, is to rewire the rest of the layout into a star-wired pattern?

Last edited by pittsburghrailfan

Take the PS-2 engines and place them individually on a small test track.  Are they seen and are they responsive.  That eliminates the engines as the issue.  Though individual engines with dirty wheels and pickups can return weaker signals, the engines  are part of the signal strength test to. It is not just the track and TIU.   G

GGG posted:

Take the PS-2 engines and place them individually on a small test track.  Are they seen and are they responsive.  That eliminates the engines as the issue.  Though individual engines with dirty wheels and pickups can return weaker signals, the engines  are part of the signal strength test to. It is not just the track and TIU.   G

We used a small test track last week. All the engines were responsive. 

Trainlover, put insulating pins in center rail between drops and see if that makes a difference.

Dan, I won't answer your question because I do not use star wiring as that term is defined in the forum.  I use 6 tiu channels.  Each goes to a section of my control panel where it hops from toggle switch to toggle switch.  From each toggle switch, a 14 gauge wire goes out to a block.  Entire layout is cut into some 70 blocks, each with one feed.

I have a common buss going in a full loop around the layout.  All accessories and outside rails are hooked into it.  I don't feed the buss power through the tius, but each tiu black output terminal is connected to it.  Nothing is connected to black input terminals. 

GGG posted:

Did you do a signal strength test on each engine on the test track.  Should all be 10s, if not a engine returning less could be an issue that is worse on the large track.  But it does seem like the rewire caused some of these issues.  G

I did not do a signal test for each engine on the test track. I will make a note of that for the next time we have a meeting. 

A complication: I tested each engine on a test strip of 25 inch Gargraves. All engines save one read 10, and the one that didn’t read 9. However, I put the GP20 back on the main line, and it read the voltage as 30 volts. A quick check of the output posts of the TIU revealed the voltage was 22 volts. The GP20 said its battery was low. Is this a separate issue? 

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