ERR Cruise Commander Lite Replacement Possibility

Looks great John!

What kind of price tag are we looking at for this option? That was one of the additional benefits to the lite, it was small and cheaper than the commander.

I still have a couple of smaller engines and a Flyer that I would like to eventually convert and this may be the fix for them if the lite never comes back.

Well, there's no way it's going to be cheaper as I hacked a Cruise Commander to make it!   I bought the FET's and the shorter cap and then did the mods so I could do a bench test.

I know you are a long ways from establishing a cost, but I think this would have application for converting any pre-command or conventional engine to basic command operation, right? Would you create your own pcb, or would each copy need to start with a CC?

Rod

Rod, this is for someone that REALLY needs the CC-Lite functionality and can't fit the full Cruise Commander.  Since I had to buy the full Cruise Commander to make it into this creation, it clearly won't be cheap to build.

Cost = Cruise Commander + parts + labor 

parts ant cost too much, maybe $7 with shipping from Digi-Key 

labors what 30 minutes to change 4 fets and a cap

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Rod, this is for someone that REALLY needs the CC-Lite functionality and can't fit the full Cruise Commander.  Since I had to buy the full Cruise Commander to make it into this creation, it clearly won't be cheap to build.

OK got it John, I misunderstood. I guess the practicality will depend on how many folks chime in and express a need.

Rod

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Rod, this is for someone that REALLY needs the CC-Lite functionality and can't fit the full Cruise Commander.  Since I had to buy the full Cruise Commander to make it into this creation, it clearly won't be cheap to build.

Yeah that CCM Sucka is $129+....

I guess the issue of copyright infringement is moot, but would it not be more practical to duplicate the CC-Lite pcb?

Rod

The CC-lite almost surely has some code differences, so I suspect that you'd have a big problem there, that code base is not available to any of us.  Manufacturing a new unit means a lot of engineering time, you'd have to reverse engineer the board, not to mention minimum production quantities and the like.

For folks that just have the need for one of these, and don't mind going the extra mile, they can have a more compact cruise solution.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Many of us lamented the passing of the ERR Cruise Commander Lite, so I decided to see if there could be a suitable replacement.  It's not possible to get to the exact size, but I think I can make the Cruise Commander fit into a much smaller space.

I removed the heatsink, and also removed the existing driver FET's.  I replaced them with similar spec parts with a shorter tab, these sometimes get soldered to boards.  I also replaced one tall capacitor that caused the R4LC to sit high in the saddle.  The result was a package the same width as the CC-Lite, 1/8" taller than the CC-Lite, and 1/2" longer than the CC-Lite.  I'm guessing this makes it small enough for many of the S-scale applications that might have used the CC-Lite. 

I ran this configuration with a 1A motor load for 10 minutes, the FET's got to 75C, pretty warm, but well within their ratings.  I think this probably has similar power handling capability as the CC-Lite, and may fill the gap left by it's passing. 

What do you think, hit or miss?

2****Cool John.  Looks like you could even solder on some small L shaped heat sinks and still not raise the profile or make the footprint wider.          j

John you are amazing.! You have a beautiful layout in the process of being built and yet you still find time to work on a project that will help others. That's what makes this forum great.

I wonder if anybody knows who determines what ERR products 3rd rail can sell and what they cannot sell - and why.

JohnActon posted:

2****Cool John.  Looks like you could even solder on some small L shaped heat sinks and still not raise the profile or make the footprint wider.          j

I thought about a copper bar across, but I'd have to check and see if I had to insulate this FET back panel.  Some are internally insulated and some aren't.  The specs on the N-channel one aren't very good, the P-channel one is not internally insulated, so you have to be careful.

E-UNIT-79 posted:

John you are amazing.! You have a beautiful layout in the process of being built and yet you still find time to work on a project that will help others. That's what makes this forum great.

 Just something I was thinking about the other day, so when the FET's came in, I had to give it a go.

RoyBoy posted:

I wonder if anybody knows who determines what ERR products 3rd rail can sell and what they cannot sell - and why.

Clearly, that would be Lionel.

For those who don't know about Carl Tuveson's site he has several plans for small driver boards I think one of them even drives AC motors.  Look for the menu on the side and click on "TMCC for S"  Check it out.      j

http://www.tuveson.com/

John, Carl's boards don't have cruise.  Also, those are just the motor driver, not the whole package.  The object of the exercise was to try to make a smaller package than the Cruise Commander for smaller installations and still retain all the features of the Cruise Commander.

Nice work as always John.

John

when you have it.... here is my installation.

My 3D printed Steeple-cab on a Williams 44Ton frame. Last Thursday, I showed an actual prototype model of the Steeple-cab I printed to a few local guys at a restaurant meeting we had.  The model is based photos of an HO model that I enlarged in Rhino 6 and the other 3D model by  Don (Scale Rail) that was very helpful in developing my version.

I have ordered a ERR mini-commanders from Mann. But it is not certain when he will have them.

John,

I agree, you are amazing, for the folks who want the option of Cruise and have a small place to put it, this is great. If you want command and Cruise to fit in an S gauge engine or another small locomotive it won't be cheap but it's an option.

Ray

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I thought about a copper bar across, but I'd have to check and see if I had to insulate this FET back panel.  Some are internally insulated and some aren't.  The specs on the N-channel one aren't very good, the P-channel one is not internally insulated, so you have to be careful

 Just something I was thinking about the other day, so when the FET's came in, I had to give it a go.

Some engineering thoughts for you....

I made my own O scale DCC decoder using the same style of FETs.  They are not insulated.

May I suggest a product by Bergquist.  It is a white film; adhesive both sides; that is used as a thermal conductor/electrical insulator.  Used to use it on 20W diode lasers.  Also I have some small copper heat sinks.  Let me know if you're interested.  They're somewhere in the basement.

Lou N

I'd love to see that Lou, I'd like to see what this would do with some sort of heatsink that didn't increase it's size by much.  The biggest issue with the full up Cruise Commander is the bulk of the heatsink.

How good is the adhesive, the description of the Bergquist pad is a little hazy about the holding power.

The stuff seems pretty pricey, I was a bit shocked, $65 for a 8"x16" sheet!

https://www.digikey.com/products/en?FV=ffecd3b3

John, I did notice the same issue I have with my Cruise Commander for my SP Daylight I just modded. The tall cap keeps the R4LC from seating on the pins fully. What is the P/N from Digikey, so I can get one ordered and replaced on my Cruise Commander.

Thanks

Chris

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I'd love to see that Lou, I'd like to see what this would do with some sort of heatsink that didn't increase it's size by much.  The biggest issue with the full up Cruise Commander is the bulk of the heatsink.

How good is the adhesive, the description of the Bergquist pad is a little hazy about the holding power.

The stuff seems pretty pricey, I was a bit shocked, $65 for a 8"x16" sheet!

https://www.digikey.com/products/en?FV=ffecd3b3

The holding power is extraordinary.  And it is pricey but I was working on a $50k medical therapy laser; I had a lot of wiggle room.  Will go digging by the workbench tomorrow.

Lou

Lou N posted:

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I'd love to see that Lou, I'd like to see what this would do with some sort of heatsink that didn't increase it's size by much.  The biggest issue with the full up Cruise Commander is the bulk of the heatsink.

How good is the adhesive, the description of the Bergquist pad is a little hazy about the holding power.

The stuff seems pretty pricey, I was a bit shocked, $65 for a 8"x16" sheet!

https://www.digikey.com/products/en?FV=ffecd3b3

The holding power is extraordinary.  And it is pricey but I was working on a $50k medical therapy laser; I had a lot of wiggle room.  Will go digging by the workbench tomorrow.

Lou

I actually found some copper heat sinks and bergquist thermal material.

My email on my profile page is current so send me your new address.

Lou

gunrunnerjohn posted:

John, Carl's boards don't have cruise.  Also, those are just the motor driver, not the whole package.  The object of the exercise was to try to make a smaller package than the Cruise Commander for smaller installations and still retain all the features of the Cruise Commander.

Clearly, I'm Senile lets not spread the word. 

Some how I got the impression that on FETs with the solder tab the tab could be used as the drain. So they would not be insulated.  I fabricated a couple of heatsinks like this out of copper and wrapped them in three turns of nylon window screen. Air can circulate but their protected enough that they can't short against anything.    j

John, aren't CC lites rated for 4 amps? Something rated for only 1-2 amps would have pretty limited application. For anything where this would work like an inspection car the board would still be way too big.

Pete

JohnActon posted:

gunrunnerjohn posted:

John, Carl's boards don't have cruise.  Also, those are just the motor driver, not the whole package.  The object of the exercise was to try to make a smaller package than the Cruise Commander for smaller installations and still retain all the features of the Cruise Commander.

Clearly, I'm Senile lets not spread the word. 

Some how I got the impression that on FETs with the solder tab the tab could be used as the drain. So they would not be insulated.  I fabricated a couple of heatsinks like this out of copper and wrapped them in three turns of nylon window screen. Air can circulate but their protected enough that they can't short against anything.    j

 John, I checked and these are not insulated.  FWIW, I have some similar parts with the metal tab that are insulated, so it's somewhat the luck of the draw.  These will need insulation between the tabs.

Pete, that's the point of looking into some sort of compact heatsink that doesn't increase the profile.  FWIW, the CC-Lite will not do 4 amps, as I had a motor stall that took one out in a few seconds.  When I checked the stall current, it was 2.7A.  There's a big difference between the ratings of the part and the actual capability when it's used in a practical circuit.  Typically, the ratings are with a rather large heatsink, something that the CC-Lite doesn't have.