ERR Sound Commander, not that loud

I have noticed the latest Lionel engines have exceptionally loud clear sound which far exceeds the TMCC upgrades I’ve done. One would expect the TMCC upgrade to improve their sound capabilities. But that market is almost broken...hanging on thanks to 3rd Rail picking up the product. I don’t expect new development in that product line. In some ways, the market for upgrades has passed on. I would like to hear of ways to improve the sound quality too.

I have just ordered 3 each of the Railsounds Commander and Cruise Commander.  I am hoping for the same quality of sound I have had in the past from other ERR units.  I am currently replacing one of the TAStudios units which has gone nuts on the speed control.  I had spares but they are not working either so I am scrapping the units for the ERR units.  I wonder if the volume control is not right and a call to 3rd Rail may solve the problem.  They use the same unit in their engines. 

Lou1985 posted:

I just purchased a new ERR Sound Commander from 3rd Rail. It's the Alco PA version. It works great but at full volume it's not as loud as my other Lionel locomotives with factory RailSounds. I did swap the 2 watt, 16 ohm speaker in the kit for a spare .5 watt, 8 ohm RailSounds speaker I had and the volume was slightly improved. It's not horrible but I'd like it to be a bit louder if possible. My wife, on the other hand, enjoys the lower volume .

Why the 16 ohm speaker, the original kits all came with 8 ohm speakers?

FWIW, I posted on this previously.  3rd Rail is providing a 16 ohm speaker with the upgrades, and the Lionel designed board uses an amplifier that works best with an 8 ohm speaker.  I tried both and got about a 6db sound boost using one of the older ERR supplied 8 ohm speakers.  They're the same size as the 16 ohm speaker that 3rd Rail is sending with the units, but they get better volume.

Here's the thread: ERR Speakers for RS Commander Kits

Also, don't forget that the RS Commander is shipped with the volume pot mid-range, turn it up full when you install it for maximum volume.

Thanks for the tip on the speaker size.  I do have some older speakers at here at home and I will sure give them a look up before I install the 3rd rail speakers.  Thanks

A decent quality 8 ohm speaker with a baffle will give you good sound.  The baffle is all important for making good sound, even and old spray can cap will do it.  For most steamers, you can fit a 2" speaker in, the bigger the better.  If you can fit two 4 ohm or two 16 ohm speakers in, so much the better.  Obviously, they have to be connected in series for 4 ohm speakers and parallel for 16 ohm speakers.  Again, the baffle is all important here.

The only 2" speaker I have with a baffle is 16 ohm.  However I have over 1/2 dozen 8 ohm speakers that are 1 5/8".  I have saved the speakers when the product wears out.  Over the years I have collected quite a pile of them.  In fact one baffle I have is made of PVC plastic.  It worked great until I had to retire and trash the electronics it was attached to.  Some of these speakers even go back to the OTT days when they made some sound systems for Post War engines.  The systems have come a long way since then.  All my running units now are with the sound and cruise control.

Thanks again for the tips on bringing up the sound.  I have never had to worry about it or had a problem with volume, so now I will have more to look for.

I use 2" PVC pipe left over from a central vacuum installation, it's nice thin stuff, and I just glue a cap of Styrene sheet on the top and it makes a great baffle for 2" speakers.

2" speakers are very common, you can pick up decent ones for $3-4 and sometimes less.  I try to keep 4, 8, and 16 ohm ones in stock in various sizes.

Its not just about size and impedence rating. The important spec is efficiency. Its measured in decibels per watt or db for short. The higher the number the better. Unfortunately you won't get these numbers from Lionel or any train manufacturer but if you go to a speaker house you will see all the specs.

You can still order 50 mm, 2" Fatboys from Lionel. These have reasonable volume. Read the threads on the TMCC forum and youwill find other options. Usually the limiting factor is space.

Pete

The included speakers aren’t very good and haven’t been even when Liibel was going things. I always end use the largest speaker I can and try to use 2 if possible. Sound works in the more air you move, the louder the sound. The larger the speaker, the better your low frequency sounds are. Trains need great low frequency bass to sound good.

Depending on what scale I’be been building baffles out if lexan for O & G and the work very well. I keep a good stock of 

I keep a good stock of...

Don't leave us in suspense Matt, what do you stock?

Must be ending a sentence with a preposition. 🤓

I do have the volume cranked all the way up on the board. The horn/bell have a decent volume and can be heard clearly from a distance. The prime mover sounds, however, are quieter than my factory Lionel RailSounds pieces. I do have the speaker mounted in a baffle but it is inside the body on a Alco PA (Williams model). The speaker is too large to fit in the fuel tank otherwise I would have mounted it there. Would something like a 1 or 2 watt 8 ohm speaker produce a little more volume than the .5 watt 8 ohm speaker I'm currently using?

As Pete suggested earlier, speakers are somewhat tricky.  It's not only size and power handling capability, but efficiency as well.  Since a majority of the small speakers we use don't have good spec's available, some of this is left to experimentation.

Note that there are two volume settings on the RS Commanders, try hitting AUX1 and then volume up and repeating that command sequence a few times and see if that doesn't bring the background sounds up.

I have an Alco PA RS Commander on the bench right now, and the prime mover sounds seem plenty loud in mine.  They even louder with an 8 ohm ERR speaker than the 16 ohm that came with the kit.

I keep a bunch of the Visaton speakers on hand. I get gem from my ESU dealer and since they’re 8 ohm, they’re perfect

Here’s a source...which one do you use?

https://www.parts-express.com/brand/visaton/502

Good choice, I use several of those, depending on the space available. 

These are the types I currently have in stock, I use a lot of the K50-8 as they fit in place of most 2" speakers.  The taller ones do have better sound, but they also take up more room, and won't fit in many locations.

For O and G my go to is the FRSW 5 but sometimes it’s too big so I order what I need when I need it. I stopped ordering extra stuff too cuz I find it just sits there. I’ve got tons of parts amounting yo thousands of dollars. It’s too much to keep maintaining a large parts inventory. 

They aldo make a really nice rectangular speaker that works very well for diesels

gunrunnerjohn posted:

As Pete suggested earlier, speakers are somewhat tricky.  It's not only size and power handling capability, but efficiency as well.  Since a majority of the small speakers we use don't have good spec's available, some of this is left to experimentation.

Note that there are two volume settings on the RS Commanders, try hitting AUX1 and then volume up and repeating that command sequence a few times and see if that doesn't bring the background sounds up.

I have an Alco PA RS Commander on the bench right now, and the prime mover sounds seem plenty loud in mine.  They even louder with an 8 ohm ERR speaker than the 16 ohm that came with the kit.

I would try that but all I've got to work with is a ZW. 

Maybe I'm just not used to the sound set. An Alco doesn't have the same rhythmic chant of an EMD 567, which is what all my other diesel RailSounds are. 

Any idea what the wattage output is on any of those speakers you listed? I could probably fit that larger "full range" speaker inside the PA's shell easily.