Extreme interest in Milk Cars?

Hi Manny, as a layman, I can tell you that at least on the Lackawanna, and early Erie-Lackawanna, milk cars carried milk from rural and semi-rural farms in NJ to processing dairy plants near major cities. They were on local, and long distance passenger and freight trains to ensure freshness. I’m sure more knowledgeable people would respond. Growing up in Hoboken in the 50’s, we still had milk delivered to our home by milkmen. Before widespread homogenization, milk was pasteurized, but the cream would separate on top, and the milk jar would have to be shaken. I would sometimes wake early, and sip a little cream off the top, which did not sit well with my mom!

Take care, Artie

Hi Manny,

i have been a student of the railroad milk/creamery  industry for a number of years and still cannot get enough of it. First, the cars: As the need for safe healthy milk grew in the metropolitan areas of the country it became necessary to create special railroad cars to haul it under at least cool condition. And the fastest way to get from remote rural areas to the city was by shipping it by regular high speed passenger trains. Hence the buffers,  steam and other connections on these special insulated "box" cars. Some lost their "box" and became insulated tanks dubbed "butter dish" cars. Some were just insulated tanks in flat cars.  It all worked very well for many years.  One test shipped milk from the Midwest to Florida still holding a safe temperature. However the Midwest became famous for butter and cheese which could be shipped longer distances.  So milk cars add some interest for modelers, not to mention the need for lineside creameries, ice houses etc. Milk was hauled in both cans and tanks and even TOFC right up to the end when trucking grew under deregulation.

Google Sheffield farms and you will find a fascinating story of the industry and its effect on our culture. Like Artie, I am a Lackawanna fan. The Lackawanna had a milk haulage story of its own that spans almost a century.  Northern New Jersey and Upstate New York were the Lackawanna's source for milk traffic.

I have plans for converting an MTH brewery and Atlas ice house into a creamery to generate traffic for my layout. They are still in the box but I know what I want them to look like.  After all, I need somewhere for all of my milk cars to serve.   

There a quite a few publications and web sources to enlighten you on this historic and fascinating industry . Dig in and enjoy!

On to the next historic railroad industry: Cement! I love this hobby.

Earl

To each is his own.  Some peoples trash is another mans gold.  I like my milk cars. Since I’m a fan of North East RR which ran dedicated milk trains.

OK.  I get it.  The interest seems to be tied to historical interest, or memories from growing up and seeing them pass through your town.

I grew up in the large "sterile suburbs" of the 1960s.  No trains or milk cars there.  :-)

Mannyrock.

Mannyrock,

In October, 2002 Lionel offered milk cars in four paint schemes:  REA, New Haven, Hoods and Pfaudler. During this time, room size layouts where becoming popular and with them, long passenger trains.  Jerry Williams offered a five car(17" cars) set and other manufacturers followed.  Head end cars were available in kit form.  When the REA 40' reefers(few cared about the internal tanks and external under floor details) they were immediately bought and used as head end REA express reefers.  At their scale size they were coveted by two rail and three rail scale operators.  The New Haven cars were close to prototype and the Pfaudler car was painted close to the prototype demonstrator.  Sales were brisk and Lionel scheduled a second run with different road numbers and later runs with different paint schemes.  The models look good, run well, have good couplers and are part of railroad history.  Why shouldn't they be popular?

John

I swore off dairy in my diet last year but not on my railroad!

Excellent and very interesting article on milk cars:

https://riverraisinmodels.com/...yData/milktrains.pdf

Well Mannyrock if it makes you feel any better, I never understood the milk car phenomenon either.  I'm not from the big east and never saw anything like them on the trains in the Midwest.  But i did find the little beige man throwing 55 gallon cans out of the 3472 milk car onto a station platform very entertaining.

Lionel makes only one form of a milk car. Atlas could have made one. But I won’t go there. Although their Brookside milk reefer car that was custom run was a tough one to find at one point. The consists were very varied much like a freight train. Solid milk trains ran on passenger type schedules. Check out the o scale brass prices of milk cars on the bay. Cars such as the Borden’s butterdish sell for a good amount. There is more going on in milk cars than just what Lionel is producing.

I own only three milk cars but like them and run them in my freight trains although I don’t have enough to make a realistic consist. Why? Because they represent the era of steam engines and wooden cars, as well as the railroads in which I’m most interested. The Brookside and Boston & Maine cars were made by Atlas O and the New Haven car was made by Weaver.

MELGAR

Nostalgia, I think, and the graphics are unique. Plus we had the little 3472 cars in the 50's with the milk cans.  Thanks for the link, Breezinup!

I think today we are just too spoiled , I mean kids think milk just comes from a supermarket ...

But in days gone by dairies were an integral part of any western society , and pretty much every decent town at least had a dairy or butter factory .. the same is true even all the way over here in Australia !

Milk Train cars were/are made by many manufacturers ... some in my collection of mainly clockwork are Bing and Hornby , Here in Australia Robilt even made a Peters Ice Cream wagon!

In the UK because of the cool weather and short shipping distances , milk was simply carried in ventilated wagons in churns

And the little churns to go in the wagon ..

even French Hornby did the same ...

Bing in top right of this photo

Robilt Aussie one ( pic from Syd Museum .. still looking for one myself lol )

So yep its not just Lionel !

Milk was just such a part of everyday life before supermarkets that whole economies , even railway ones depended on it .

I just think milk is delicious and a train full of milk is neat.

@MELGAR posted:

The Bellows Falls Co-operative Creamery Complex is a historic industrial property in Bellows Falls, Vermont. Developed over a period of about 40 years beginning c. 1906, the complex, with two surviving buildings, it represents one of Vermont's largest commercial enterprises of the period. The property, located on the eastern side of Bellows Falls Island, was listed on the National Register of Historic Places in 1990.

I grew up in Vermont and seldom see any representations of Vermont advertising products, rolling stock or locomotive power in the hobby... Milk being one of the exceptions!

THANKS Melgar!!!

The world has changed since we bounced milk around in 10 gallon cans. There are robotic milkers, and cows, that can feed, and milk, themselves.  The truck (tank truck), that comes to the farm, is as large as any 40'/50' railroad car.  The milk can is used for umbrellas today.

One of my trips to Vermont, Brother Robert, and I, did an early morning breakfast, at a small restaurant, near Rutland, VT.  These pictures were part of the restaurant.

Milk, may be not the important commodity, it once was.   The interstate road system, I 89 Vermont/New Hampshire, put an end to milk trains.  IMO, Mike CT

It is simple these cars are so appealing.  Think it was 2005 I caught sight of one (Lionel) at my local toy train shop. from then on picked up a few probably starting with the New Central version.  Then the REA ones and best of all the American Railway Express one it predates the REA.  Then finally had to have the Borden's on since Borden's Divcos delivered milk to our homes form the mid-late 40's well through the 50's.

There are some great soft covered booklets covering these.  The latest by Kalmbach Media 2019 "Milk Trains and Traffic."  The older booklets I have are "Railway Express" and "Railway Milk Carr Vol 4."

Ron

And here is a different take on the traditional milk cars posted so far.

Some of my "butter dish" milk cars.

@Mike CT posted:

One of my trips to Vermont, Brother Robert, and I, did an early morning breakfast, at a small restaurant, near Rutland, VT.  These pictures were part of the restaurant.

Milk, may be not the important commodity, it once was.   The interstate road system, I 89 Vermont/New Hampshire, put an end to milk trains.  IMO, Mike CT

Mike,

You remember the restaurant?  I go to Rutland often, Family and the like in the area.

Quick Search:  Whistle Stop Restaurant, North Clarendon, VT.  Permanently closed.

Utterly charming, @Fatman, as are all your posts. I hope you posted those over on the tinplate forum as well. Tinplate and milk, a match made in heaven!

@johnstrains, who made those butter dish cars? Love them. ok, found them- Lionel.

@Will posted:

Utterly charming, @Fatman, as are all your posts. I hope you posted those over on the tinplate forum as well. Tinplate and milk, a match made in heaven!

@johnstrains, who made those butter dish cars? Love them. ok, found them- Lionel.

Right, all made by Lionel. They did the plain white tanks on red and blue flats quite a while ago. The others are more recent issues. I'm sure there are some other liveries. In fact, I need to look around and see if anything catches my eye.

@Mike CT posted:

Quick Search:  Whistle Stop Restaurant, North Clarendon, VT.  Permanently closed.

  Thanks for the search.

Nice Rutland Railroad pics... Thank You!   That's the county I grew up in... born in Proctor, home of the Vermont Marble Company... Now Omya (formerly White Pigment).. they grind the marble to dust and put it in your toothpaste (among other things)  The rails are still very active there.

@johnstrains posted:

And here is a different take on the traditional milk cars posted so far.

Some of my "butter dish" milk cars.

WOW!!!!  Very, VERY Nice!

Hey  John.  Your butter dish cars are extremely unique looking.   I would definitely buy one of those!

Is the Tupelo car a Lionel product?  Or did you paint it yourself.  (For 28 years, I lived 45 minutes away from Tupelo, Mississippi.  (The two-room tenant farmer's house, where Elvis was born, is still standing. It is a tourist attraction. )

I have long been interested in milk cars ...both grandfathers operated dairies as part of their operations, one had a prime tobacco farm  in burley country, so l have wondered if any tobacco hogshead cars have been done in  O..vaguely remember seeing an ad for an HO one..  But most milk cars l have heard of operated in the NE, and l have long wondered about Chicago, St. Louis, Omaha, Kansas City, and west...beer cars but no milk cars?  What did their kids drink?

@Mannyrock posted:

Hey  John.  Your butter dish cars are extremely unique looking.   I would definitely buy one of those!

Is the Tupelo car a Lionel product?  Or did you paint it yourself.  (For 28 years, I lived 45 minutes away from Tupelo, Mississippi.  (The two-room tenant farmer's house, where Elvis was born, is still standing. It is a tourist attraction. )

Mannyrock,

Those are all Lionel products. Haven't looked recently but probably would show up on the auction site. They are not newer issues.

I think Lionel did a bunch of the butter dish cars. I have a Hoods, Nesquik, and Borden’s. They are frequently listed on eBay and I’ve seen a lot of different ones.

@PRRronbh posted:

It is simple these cars are so appealing.  Think it was 2005 I caught sight of one (Lionel) at my local toy train shop.

Never mind milk cars.  What is this “local toy train shop” of which you speak? 😭

@MikeH posted:

Never mind milk cars.  What is this “local toy train shop” of which you speak? 😭

That would the "Little Choo-Choo Shop" in Spencer,NC, a great shop in the day.  Located right across the street from the North Carolina Transportation Museum.  So you could see a lot of toy trains on one side of the street and the real things on the other side

Ron

I bought this car on the bay a while back. It was in a lot with 2 boxcars. Incomplete but it caught my curiosity as to how it was built. It uses the Lionel milk car chassis. Except the Lionel features a solid floor, sides and ends. It was set up for 2 rail and the tank is made out of wood.

Haven’t had time to investigate how the body was removed. Eventually I’ll get to it. My one idea was. If the body can easily be removed down to the bare chassis on the Lionel car. Just pick an unpopular inexpensive  one to cut up. Perhaps a 3 D printed body could be adapted to the Lionel chassis giving us a unique car to add to your milk train. I’ve gone the brass route for one. Heavily modified Lionel trucks to 3 rail it. Have about 300 tied up in it. The above method certainly would bring the cost down for a 3 rail scale car.

Head end or express reefers were available in kit form before WW2, Westfield, Walthers,  and Scale-Craft come to mind.

@NYC Z-MAN posted:

I think Lionel did a bunch of the butter dish cars. I have a Hoods, Nesquik, and Borden’s. They are frequently listed on eBay and I’ve seen a lot of different ones.

Agreed. The Lionel butter dish cars on the red and blue flats appear all the time on eBay. And at reasonable prices. The other liveries are rarer and cost a bit more but can still be had for decent prices. Shop around.

I have been thinking, dangerous I know!  Thinking about the "milk"cars in on of my above post made me check into the related info.  For purposes of this discussion  will repost the pic in question.

First must say I really like these Lionel cars.  At one time thought about selling them off.  But, saw the prices they were bring especially the "American Railway Express" changed my mine.  

My references are soft cover booklets "Railway Express Agency"128-pages, "Railway Milk Cars vol 4" 48-pages and "Milk Trains and Traffic" 94-pages.  Included pis of the two.

First these Lionel cars are not scale in length.  At about 11 1/2-inches that is 46-feet which is closer  to the Inside Length.  The Outside lengths were 50 some feet. Now that is OK with me since prefer 40-footers anyway.  That is except something like a Schabel car etc.

But the biggest surprise is that could not find any reference to Railway Express and/or American Express "MILK" cars.  From these three pubs it appears all milk cars were owned by the railroads or the creameries.  And actually these Lionel cars are not marked as "MILK" cars but are marked prototypically correct as "Refrigerator" cars (although they do have tanks inside).  And so the NYC car at the top is correctly marked as "MILK" Car which originally as a milk can car and changed to a milk tank car.  So the milk cars would carry milk and REA/ARE Express cars would carry other perishables.  Just saying, but I do really like these Lionel cars especially the "Express" ones.  Just some thoughts.

Ron

Not to mention Lionel did a great job on the milk cars. I have the Pfaudler variant and a long string of the NYC version. The white one is another refrigerated express car but by Atlas I think.

My father worked at Pfaudler in Rochester, NY.  I believe he worked more on the Copper Kettles used in breweries but none the less I purchased the complete set of the Pfaudler cars made available by Lionel.  When I was a child, I remember my Dad went to NYC to do some work at a Brewery down there.  He asked me what I wanted for a gift when he returned.  I said dual cap guns and holster.  I should have specified Mattel Fanner 50's but I did not but I loved my gift just the same.

Loose Cannon,

I got a Mattel Fanner 50 for my six birthday. It came with plastic shells, that you pushed plastic bullets into against a very heavy spring.

Then, you loaded the completed shells up in the six cylinders, and when you pulled the trigger, something in the mechanism  freed the bullets and they few out of the barrel under the spring power.   Greenie stick-em caps were to be stuck on the backs of the shells, so that the caps fired off as you shot.

Problem was, those little gray bullets flew out at all sorts of crazy angles, and when really far, and it was nearly impossible to find them.  And, it was impossible for me, as a six year old, to push down hard enough on the bullets to reload them against the heavy springs.  (They had a hole cut in the stag handle grip to help push the shell down onto the bullets,  but I couldn't do it.)

So, I just gave up on the bullets, and used the stick-em caps. 

All in all, though, it was a very poor design compared to the six shooters that used a roll of caps, and a real real disappointment.  The T.V. commercials, which I am sure you saw, made them look absolutely terrific, and like you, I just HAD to have one.

Mannyrock

You can't talk about milk cars and the milk industry without finding the NYO&W mentioned:

On a "railroad always struggling in the red" , ancient cars like these saw service well into the 20th century....Atlas cars are great, but the detail parts as oh so fragile......

Peter