I'm not on it; never been and never will be. I belong to 2 online toy train forums and that's enough for me. 

John

My brother put me on it, and "friended" me to about three family members.  It pretty much overwhelmed my hotmail account with inane stuff.  If I want pictures of food, or babies, or sunsets, I know where to find them.

I ignored about a billion "friend" requests, and now my hotmail remains for meaningful communications.

I thought the Russians took overFacebook?

But yeah, if I knew how to handle it like a forum, without hotmail alerts, I might go looking for train or airplane stuff.  Scared of politics - that part of Facebook is just plain frightening.

Not a fan of Facebook either!

Chief Bob (Retired)

Hi John.

I have never liked the idea myself but where I live there is very little Steel mill modelling and almost no USA O scale activity and operating a Model Railroad whats that!

Just though I might expand my knowledge not only for Model Railroads (this is the only forum I am on) I am also a keen long distance hiker, bushwalker.

Thanks Roo.

It's worth it.

You don't have to "Friend" anybody.  If you do, and they start sending you stuff you don't like, you can just as easily "Unfriend" them.  You can also follow people you want.  You don't have to do that either.  You can be as public as you want, and you can be as private as you want.  There's a lot of flexibility available.  If you find you don't like it after awhile, you can always close your account.  You won't be bothered anymore after that.

That last message I sent came before the other replies so far all are against, interesting.

I'm wondering if anyone here likes it joining it hinges on what feedback I get from here..

I'm a great fan of the OGR forum so I will still be here. 

Thanks Roo.

Roo, I have been on Facebook for 10 years.  I am now in several O gauge and prototype train groups.  Some groups would be okay if a few certain people weren't on.  Other groups that are well administered are excellent!  Since the format is different than this Forum, you have to get used to how it works, but I think it is well worth it.  Actually I am a co-administrator on three O gauge groups and also on a FB Messenger group of admins from various groups.  We keep a tight reign on guys that get out of hand!  Get on and look for me.  You will find the same photo I use here since there are a few Mark Boyces on FB!  There are quite a few OGR Forum members on FB as well!  There is a lot to learn there.  Buy-Sell groups are the hardest to administer, since there have been times that someone cheats someone else, those guys get blackballed quickly!!  However, if you know the guy's reputation it works great.   I am awaiting 4 Atlas O Steam Era Classics cars that I just got a nice price on!  I'll be looking for you!!

I belong to a number of Facebook train related forums. They are all controlled similar to the OGR forum. They keep the posts from straying too far. I like some most things  about them and dislike a few things, but they are beneficial overall. They tend to be specialized, for sale groups, std Gauge, O, S, tinplate etc. You may get friend requests from members, but not a lot. I’ve only accepted a couple. A few X members of this forum are there.

Steve

I'm on Facebook. Got on it to find people I lost touch with over the years, especially former (music) band mates. I have a simple rule: I only accept friend requests from people I know in real life. No friends of friends etc. I'm not trying to gather as many meaningless "Facebook friends" as possible, like a lot of people do. Joined the U.P. Steam Group but I've wound up providing way more information than I've gotten in return. I've been at this for 50+ years and there are kids on there who are seeing a steam locomotive for the very first time. I try to answer their questions accurately and respectfully. I may be helping to foster a brand new railfan. There are too many people on there who are spreading lousy information or belittling people for asking rudimentary questions. There is no call for that.

There is nothing wrong with joining Facebook, but you do have to learn how the manage your settings. Unlike some, I don’t believe I have ever gotten an unsolicited advertising email as a result of joining. We have met over 30 people in person just from meeting them on Facebook. It’s the easiest way for us to keep up with family and the friends we made in the military. I generally don’t unfriend people, but I do have several I don’t follow because all they do is repost memes. You will see some sponsored posts, but it’s easy enough to just bypass them. There are ads, but they’re off to the side and I don’t even pay attention to them. You can limit your posts so only your friends can see them and respond. Facebook is still far from perfect, but it’s a lot better than it used to be. They keep adding controls to make it even more controlled.

So how do we do it without getting e-mail messages every time somebody takes a picture of their hamburger?  How can we avoid those posters a half inch away from a mass shooting?

I'm serious.  I wouldn't mind a forum- like environment, where I can choose to avoid some topics.

I don't wish to knock anything here. I'll just point out that you can go on Facebook directly, or you can load the Facebook app and use that. My girl uses the app so she sees all the posts of her "friends". I don't use the app on my device. I just go to their site. I really can't say all of the differences. I'm not all that savvy here. I do know that her phone seems to be always busy with the Facebook app using a lot of memory.

At one time I had a Faceplant account. I learned a lot during that time. I am not on Faceplant now. I deleted my account.

I will NEVER AGAIN be on Faceplant.

The amount of soap opera BS there is unbelievable.

You have no idea how much of your privacy you give up when you set up your Faceplant account.

Add to that, I will not do business with that despicable, pencil-necked geek Mark Zuckerberg.

Some day I’ll tell you how I really feel.  😂

bob2 posted:

So how do we do it without getting e-mail messages every time somebody takes a picture of their hamburger?  How can we avoid those posters a half inch away from a mass shooting?

I'm serious.  I wouldn't mind a forum- like environment, where I can choose to avoid some topics.

If you have your settings such that you get an email every time someone posts, it’s no wonder you don’t like FB. And if you have friends that close to a mass shooting, I feel for you.  I suspect you’re reading the news feed and there are few controls for it. My notifications are set to Push and not Email in settings. I use the Notifications page (the Bell icon at the bottom) to get a list of notifications and that’s pretty much all I read. If I have a friend who posts nothing but political stuff, for example, I Unfollowed him so I don’t get notifications for his posts on his timeline, but he cam still post on mine. If I don’t like it, I simply delete it. Periodically I’ll browse his timeline. If I have a friend who posts some stuff I’m interested in, but not others, I just skip over the ones I don’t care about. I let friends see my posts and friends of friends can see their comments. I allow friend requests from friends of friends. I only get emails from admin. I use only a couple of apps and no gaming apps. The app on my phone seems to eat the battery, so I logout when I’m done.

Let me add that my life is an open book, so I’m not overly concerned about privacy. I’m online, so privacy is gone from the jump. I’m not sure what exactly Rich is talking about, but I’ve had no ill effects from being on Facebook. Mind you, I don’t like Facebook because I think it’s poorly organized, poorly coded and is just now offering controls because of all the scrutiny they’ve been getting, but it’s the best way for us to keep up with friends. I don’t care if anyone joins Facebook or not, just relaying my experience.

My luddite view, seems like more effort than it is worth.  I guess I am on rich's team. Unless I can get cheap prices on good stuff, might consider Mark's team? Hmmm?

You can select for only ‘friends’ to access what you post.  I do unfollow not unfriend folks that spam memes.  Also, pay attention to security settings and select only ‘friends ‘ or groups.  I can give some O Gauge groups I recommend.

as to connecting to old friends.  I have found childhood friends from 50 or more years ago.  I have developed a great relationship with my cousin across the country who I have not seen since 1964!  I have also gotten to know his family and other cousins’ families I would never had known.

The thing to remember about Facebook, is that the problem isn't the information you give them, or give your friends and family access to.  It's the information that they take from you that is at issue.  You must understand that all of the content stored on your computer, all the sites you visit, all the people you are in contact with, in short everything you do on your computer, will be harvested by Facebook and shared by them, with their partners, at their discretion, in an attempt to monetize your data.  And this will happen without respect to your privacy settings on Facebook, whether you are actually using Facebook, or whether you are even logged into your Facebook account while browsing other sites.  If you access Facebook from your phone, they will harvest additional information like all your contacts, where you are, and what store you are shopping at today.  Making money is the singular purpose and goal of the company, not "connecting the world" or "building communities", or whatever altruistic sounding propaganda they trot out these days.

If you have any concerns about your privacy, whether explicit (say, if you join a group focused on a medical condition you deal with, Facebook will log that)  or implicit (say, if you just object to the gathering of your data on principle) , you should think long and hard about opening an account.

Facebook has merits, if only it functioned without the behind the scenes shenanigans.  Companies, organizations, clubs, and similar like it for what amounts to free web hosting.  The groups aspect is typically a great resource, because you can find a group that is very focused on the same particular interests that you have.  There is a valuable functionality in connecting with people, whether new acquaintances or old.  You just have to decide if the pros are worth the cons.  

There are a few ways to limit Facebook's data harvesting when doing non-Facebook activities.  Namely, use a web browser like Firefox that has a function to access Facebook separately from the channels used for other web activities.  I'm not sure if Chrome has the same capability.  It would be something to do a bit of research on if you want to open an account.  If you want to be hardcore about it, you could have a device that is used strictly for Facebook, with no other content or web activity on it, nor connectivity with other networked devices (like if your phone and ipad sync).  In other words, Facebook will still attempt to harvest data, just don't have any data for it to find.  

The bottom line is that all the reasons people have given for joining are valid, and all the concerns that people have expressed have some legitimate basis as well.  Which unfortunately means there isn't a clear cut answer unless you have strong personal convictions about privacy or the culture and philosophies of the company in question.

Hopefully this will provide some food for thought.
Jim

Facebook is EVIL 

big train posted:

The thing to remember about Facebook, is that the problem isn't the information you give them, or give your friends and family access to.  It's the information that they take from you that is at issue.  You must understand that all of the content stored on your computer, all the sites you visit, all the people you are in contact with, in short everything you do on your computer, will be harvested by Facebook and shared by them, with their partners, at their discretion, in an attempt to monetize your data.  And this will happen without respect to your privacy settings on Facebook, whether you are actually using Facebook, or whether you are even logged into your Facebook account while browsing other sites.  If you access Facebook from your phone, they will harvest additional information like all your contacts, where you are, and what store you are shopping at today.  Making money is the singular purpose and goal of the company, not "connecting the world" or "building communities", or whatever altruistic sounding propaganda they trot out these days.

If you have any concerns about your privacy, whether explicit (say, if you join a group focused on a medical condition you deal with, Facebook will log that)  or implicit (say, if you just object to the gathering of your data on principle) , you should think long and hard about opening an account.

Facebook has merits, if only it functioned without the behind the scenes shenanigans.  Companies, organizations, clubs, and similar like it for what amounts to free web hosting.  The groups aspect is typically a great resource, because you can find a group that is very focused on the same particular interests that you have.  There is a valuable functionality in connecting with people, whether new acquaintances or old.  You just have to decide if the pros are worth the cons.  

There are a few ways to limit Facebook's data harvesting when doing non-Facebook activities.  Namely, use a web browser like Firefox that has a function to access Facebook separately from the channels used for other web activities.  I'm not sure if Chrome has the same capability.  It would be something to do a bit of research on if you want to open an account.  If you want to be hardcore about it, you could have a device that is used strictly for Facebook, with no other content or web activity on it, nor connectivity with other networked devices (like if your phone and ipad sync).  In other words, Facebook will still attempt to harvest data, just don't have any data for it to find.  

The bottom line is that all the reasons people have given for joining are valid, and all the concerns that people have expressed have some legitimate basis as well.  Which unfortunately means there isn't a clear cut answer unless you have strong personal convictions about privacy or the culture and philosophies of the company in question.

Hopefully this will provide some food for thought.
Jim

If you are implying that they have access to your browser history, cache, cookies, email contacts etc, and/or the contents of your hard drives that is simply untrue. Gaining access to the contents of your device without you granting permission, even by a government agency unless they obtain a warrant from a court of law, is hacking. That is illegal and Facebook would be already be dead and buried by now if they engaged in it. What they do have access to is anything that you, or your "friends" voluntarily share on their platform. In addition,, you may (athough I don't know why anyone with a brain would want to) opt in to permit them to gather data on your phone calls, sms text messages and location data from your smartphone, but it requires you to affirmatively grant them access. I would not, nor do I believe anyone should do that.  That is as dumb as leaving the doors and windows to your home open day and night. Only a fool would do so. Caveat emptor. You can access a report from your account and see if you've allowed them to collect those enumerated data sets. My report states that they have none of that data. The do have a history of everything I've done on the Facebook platform, as I would expect them to have.

No. Facebook became more of a daily chore than a social activity. 

YES, absolutely. There's many groups on there with tons of content. Photos, videos and how to's. Many who dont post in forums any longer post in those groups now.

Nick Chillianis posted:

big train posted:

 

If you are implying that they have access to your browser history, cache, cookies, email contacts etc, and/or the contents of your hard drives that is simply untrue......

I was under the impression that the common wisdom was that Facebook (and Google, and Apple, and so on) did all of these things.  Certainly searches for "does Facebook track my browsing history", or "does Facebook track my cookies", or "how do the Facebook pixel, like button, and share buttons function on non-Facebook sites" return an awful lot of affirmative responses.  Including several articles about Facebook implementing an opt-out function for users to stop Facebook from using their browser history data  .  While clearly not everything on the internet is true, when enough outlets that strike me as either reputable or agenda-free (or at least agenda-neutral) agree on something, I'm more willing to accept what I see.

As to all the rest, I agree wholeheartedly.  Facebook has asked for and been granted permission by users, often as part of terms of use, and often in the fine print.  And they traditionally haven't been proactively transparent about their data gathering habits.  So the trick is to be fully aware and educated if you decide to sign up for an account.

No Facebook workers can access your files. Etc. 

All of those sites.if you upload a picture ..or document...they want access to your files..

And Facebook workers are corrupt. Top down.

What Nick states is true.  Whatever you do through facebook---searching, downloading, messaging---is information facebook can (and does) access.  If you do a search for widgets, thingumybobs, and whatzits, the chances are high you'll see ads for those popping up soon afterward.  If you make a mistake and search for "gay market" instead of "gray market", you'll probably start getting unexpected ads later.  Facebook is stupid.  It doesn't know what you meant to do.  It only knows what you actually did.  One thing I learned early on was to wait until facebook pages I visited were fully loaded.  There were a few times I accidentally clicked on something because the picture I intended to click on moved down due to a picture being loaded above it.  As long as you're careful about things like that, you shouldn't have any problems.

A good idea is to check ALL of your settings first before doing anything else.  Make sure you understand what each setting affects and what it allows you or others to do.  That way you won't be inundated with messages/information you don't want.

The way the handled the traumatic event that happened to our country 3 months ago I would never join Hatebook!

I'm a Facebook member for personal and hobby/interests reasons. Personal to mainly see what my 10 grand kids and their families are up to. Hobby/interest wise, learn from and contribute to people who: collect stereo slides, collect stereo view cards, own a Subaru Outback, talk about growing up in the 1950s, collect View-Master items, and one sponsored by Consumer Reports magazine.

I also belong to groups like this one, plus guns and archery. All of these are a boon to me, especially since I am hearing impaired (yes, I wear hearing aides). They allow me to "hear" and chat without having to ask someone to repeat themselves.

Nobody can tell whether it is or isn't worth it to you.  You have to find that out for yourself. What you value, and what and how you decide "worth" is set by you and not others.

All you're going to get here is bunch of opinions, beliefs, misunderstandings, some correct information, some dis- and mis-information, and the usual nonsense.

Well, Roo    I started a group on facebook called" Aussie O Scalers " but I am the only member so far. I only go on facebook occasionally, mostly to follow my kids and grand kids. It would be great to dig out some other O scalers down under. Your welcome to join!       cTr.....( Choose the Right )

Wow! Lots of MIS-INFORMATION about Facebook here! While it is admittedly not for everyone, if you know how to use FB properly, it can be a very useful site. I belong to a number of special interest groups on FB for O gauge, On30, Large Scale (G), Marklin HO, and Z. I also am a participant on a number of other groups, including animal rescues, firearms enthusiasts, and several others. I glean timely and useful information from all of these sources on a fairly regular basis. I have also found a whole lot of material and a number of excellent resources (layouts and how-to features) for OGR magazine via Facebook. Truth is, I wish our OGR Forum participants were as eager and willing to share their knowledge, experiences, and expertise with those who are not on social media at all and/or who simply prefer the printed publication.

As for personal information, rest assured that there is no such thing as private/secure information anymore. EVERYTHING about you is available somewhere on the Internet, regardless of whether or not you made it available yourself. No point in being overly concerned about it at this point because we as a society have allowed this to happen. Keep your nose clean and don't do or say anything you would be ashamed of and you should be okay.

Like I said, FB and other social media sites are definitely not for everyone, but if you have a spacial modeling interest such as steel mill modeling, logging railroads, On30 scale, or any of hundreds--literally--of other special interests, you likely can and will find others who share that same interest in a FB group.

Stephen Bloy posted:

Well, Roo    I started a group on facebook called" Aussie O Scalers " but I am the only member so far. I only go on facebook occasionally, It would be great to dig out some other O scalers down under. Your welcome to join!       cTr.....( Choose the Right )

I imagine your post here may uncover at least a few more potential members for your group. I know there are a number of O gauge (2-rail and 3-rail) Aussies in the hobby because a couple or more have had layouts featured in the magazine in the past. Having visited your country several times in years past, I love Australia and her people!

I started using it to see what was going on with the kids and grandkids.  It morphed into far more than that.  Has it's pros and cons but for O Scale, P:48, model railroading in general, it's awesome.  Far more activity and feedback than most forums.

People like to complain about FB when they really have no idea what it is.  You folks should try it.  Don't like it,,,quit.

Jay

My major complaint with FB, other than the obvious wacky issues with data privacy, is the lack of organization of the posts.  Threads are MUCH harder to follow on FB than on traditional forums.  It seems organization simply doesn't exist.  I personally think that's by design, specifically designed to have you spend more time looking for the content, and hence exposed to more ads and data collection possibilities.

Wow, talk about misinformation, it’s growing with every post. 🤪 I don’t think a lot of folks understand how ads get generated on Facebook, me included. I google a lot and have not see any ads for most of the stuff I search. What I do see are Amazon ads for stuff I google and then check out on Amazon. AFAIK, those ads are generated by Amazon, not by Facebook. So many assume Facebook is using browser history when those ads pop up, but I don’t think that’s the case. If it were, my Facebook pages would have tons of ads and they don’t. My understanding is that sites “push” your browsing activity to Facebook to advertise their sites, things like the posts saying so and so likes Amazon and then showing what you looked at.

Anyway, I think Allan’s post is the most sensible. It’s not for everyone and if you’re not willing to or able to put in some effort to control it, then it’s probably not for you. Just don’t be scared off by those with an axe to grind toward technology in general and by into the hysteria. I don’t like Mark Z or how Facebook deals with the news feed, but if I avoided every site because I didn’t like who owns it, some of the members, etc., there wouldn’t be many left, OGR included. Have one of your friends show you how they use it and make your own decision. You can always delete your account if you find it’s not for you. 

I like it. It has hooked me up with old friends and classmates along with far away family I don't get to see. Negative remarks just means you haven't controlled it properly.

Jim 

I find Facebook invaluable, Roo. For years, I was hesitant to sign up … for really no good reason.

As others here, I go into groups that are laser focused on my interests. There is a tremendous amount of fun information, exclusively on FB.

Also, as others mentioned, keeping up with family and friends, far and wide. It's fun. I have a son in the NJ State Police Academy, the state Attorney General's office sometimes posts helicopter photos of the recruits crawling through the winter ocean surf and such. I wouldn't see any of that stuff anywhere else.

More and more businesses and other entities have their most current information on their Facebook page, rather than their website.

I don't spend big amounts of time on Facebook, I check out what I want to see and read, and I'm gone. And, no … Facebook can't read and write your files.

Happy Railroading.

There are some specialized forums there. A number of tinplate groups, Std Gauge, Dorfan, Hafner, Marx, Buy & Sell forums and I'm sure more.

Steve

DoubleDAZ posted:

Wow, talk about misinformation, it’s growing with every post. 🤪 I don’t think a lot of folks understand how ads get generated on Facebook, me included. I google a lot and have not see any ads for most of the stuff I search. What I do see are Amazon ads for stuff I google and then check out on Amazon. AFAIK, those ads are generated by Amazon, not by Facebook. So many assume Facebook is using browser history when those ads pop up, but I don’t think that’s the case.

Facebook won't know anything about searches you do through Google or Amazon.  However Facebook will know about searches you do through Facebook's own software.  If you look for a person, all of a sudden their "Friends" will pop up as possible friends for you.  If you look for a Facebook game, all of a sudden you'll see ads for other games.  Look for a specific group.  All of a sudden Facebook starts showing you other supposedly similar groups you may be interested in joining.  Suggestions for groups your "Friends" are interested in will also be presented.

Phrank, I see nothing wrong with that and it’s not just a Facebook thing. My point was intended to counter those saying FB tracks external browsing history. I’ve found friends through their suggestions after I’ve searched for a specific friend. I’ve also made friends with friends of friends via the suggestions. I don’t look at games, but if I did, I’m sure I’d be interested in other games, so I’d probably welcome those suggestions as well. I used to hate the posts showing the games my friends play, but I’ve turned those off, so I don’t see them. I will say that FB could make control easier if they wanted to, but I, like others, believe they deliberately make it difficult, though it could also be that their programmers are that inept. The best social network I ever used was Multiply and those of us who used it still lament it’s demise.

Rich Melvin posted:

...

You have no idea how much of your privacy you give up when you set up your Faceplant account.

...

actually i know exactly how much, zero.  well, maybe 1%, ... my first name is my real first name, my last name isn't.  i bypassed every other question or option when signing up.  nothing else is required other than a normal sounding name.

there are plenty of ways old friends can find me, i have a Facebook account only to visit commercial sites that are on Facebook and to comment on articles where they take Facebook logins.  do i get junk email?  i'm not sure ... it goes right into the trash.

overlandflyer posted:

Rich Melvin posted:

...

You have no idea how much of your privacy you give up when you set up your Faceplant account.

actually i know exactly how much, zero.  well, maybe 1%, ... my first name is my real first name, my last name isn't.  i bypassed every other question or option when signing up.  nothing else is required other than a normal sounding name...

When you log into FB, they put a tracking cookie on your computer. It's part of the login process.  That cookie tracks every web page you visit and logs that, along with your IP address. It does not matter that you used a "fake" name when you signed up for FB. You used your real name and address to get your internet service at your home didn't you? And your name and your account is tied to the IP addresses that are used to provide you with internet service. THAT is what FB logs.

Just because you didn't answer the FB questions correctly means nothing. That's why they don't require you to provide accurate information there. They don't care. They can find you via your internet service provider.

Rich Melvin posted:

That cookie tracks every web page you visit

I assume you mean every page you visit from Facebook and that’s why you shouldn’t click on all those “cutesy“ click-bait memes your friends think tell them their future, how intelligent they are, etc., not to mention those that promise riches, love and lord knows what all.

DoubleDAZ posted:

Rich Melvin posted:

That cookie tracks every web page you visit

I assume you mean every page you visit from Facebook...

No, DoubleDaz, FB tracks EVERY WEB SITE YOU VISIT...including this one!

FB is not alone. Google, YouTube and thousands of other sites do the same thing.

Rich, wouldn’t the cookies get to be huge files and wouldn’t batteries die? Also, why does my iPad report FB battery usage time as 1:58 on screen and only :57 background for the last 24 hours when I’ve been googling, etc., a lot longer than that just this afternoon without connecting power?

Rich, I think you’re only somewhat right. Here’s what Consumer Report says about it. To be sure, FB gets a lot of data.

https://www.consumerreports.or...ure-not-on-facebook/

DoubleDAZ posted:

Rich, I think you’re only somewhat right. Here’s what Consumer Report says about it. To be sure, FB gets a lot of data.

https://www.consumerreports.or...ure-not-on-facebook/

Yup. That's how I thought it worked. 

It's not a cookie FB puts on your machine, it's a snippet of code that is added to the page of publishers that allow FB to do so.

Some groups have asked FB to change it back to when you had to hit the "like" or "share" buttons to enable FB's servers. As far as I know, FB has been unresponsive.

Regardless, I'd miss out on a lot of good stuff without FB, and they're not getting any critical information.

Wow! I was not expecting this response but then again I don't spend a lot of time researching this type of stuff to know if it's good or bad. The internet itself is good for me mainly to look at reviews on books I might be interested in (I buy a lot of American Railroad books) and buying other O scale items as it all comes from the USA.

I am known as a "Loner Modeller" over here in West Australia I don't have a lot of contact with other modellers probably because American O scale in this State is almost nil apart from myself. I thought Facebook might be a way of expanding my knowledge but looking at these messages and talking to a good friend last night on the phone to America I am having second thoughts even though he told me there is a very good O scale site on facebook with many people in it that I know he also knows me well enough to say I could get frustrated with facebook and think about it before joining.

The thing that concerns me is I might have to work at it to get the best results and that almost rules me out straight away because even though I am long retired I have many interests which include my family and I know that I would not have the time or patience to monitor what I am sending or receiving properly sounds a bit like Morse code doesn't it (sending receiving).

Anyway the bottom line is I have decided I don't want to join it I'm happy being here with no hassles one thing I might do is rejoin the NMRA I liked their magazine and miss it a lot.

I would like to thank everyone here for their replies I really appreciate them I have read them all. I'm not saying it's a good or bad thing just not for me.  You all take care and follow my Steel Mill threads here if you want to see what I get up to when I'm home working on the layout instead of looking at Facebook !  Roo.

DoubleDAZ posted:

Rich, wouldn’t the cookies get to be huge files and wouldn’t batteries die?

The cookie file is just a tiny snippet of computer code. It doesn’t change size. It simply tells your computer to send data to Faceplant every time you load a web page. Whether it’s done with cookies or pixels, the result is the same, an unwanted invasion of your privacy.

Facebook is a hackers paradise. Period.

I love seeing all the steam related posts on Facebook. An incredible amount of interesting information I would not have ever known about otherwise.

Facebook's tracking is a bit more insidious than simply placing a cookie on your machine. If you completely want to to kill it, install some sort of script blocker, such as uBlock Origin or NoScript; by default, this will prevent a webpage from loading any code that isn't HTML or loading content from another website. It will break your websites until you go through and manually approve what you want to allow the page to load. But you'll see all the other junk a website loads under the hood, and things pointing back to Facebook servers are often times there. As an additional bonus, it will kill off a load of ads, too.

Is any online site totally safe, secure, and suitable for everyone and every purpose! Nope! Not even close!

But if you're interested in taking advantage of the tremendous amount of information that is available today about virtually any subject you can imagine, and if interacting with others who share your special interests appeals to you, all you have to do is connect. 

Since I quit Facebook, the junk mail I get is a fraction of what it was, and the out-of-town robo-calls I get have been significantly reduced.

Roo posted:

…. Anyway the bottom line is I have decided I don't want to join it I'm happy being here with no hassles one thing I might do is rejoin the NMRA I liked their magazine and miss it a lot. ...

I respect your decision, but … I'm sorry to hear it.

Perhaps, in the future, you may be with someone that will join Facebook with you. I always remember that the internet has many "experts"  espousing misinformation and manufactured outrage/problems, often peppered with insults and name calling.

What you do is really cool, Roo. I follow along with all of your posts. There's an entire planet of modelers, in all scales, that would love to see your efforts. Both, as inspiration in their modeling, but also just admiration of something they will never be able to do themselves.

Happy Railroading

Jim 

If you knew anything about big tech and privacy lawlessness....

EBT Jim posted:

Roo posted:

…. Anyway the bottom line is I have decided I don't want to join it I'm happy being here with no hassles one thing I might do is rejoin the NMRA I liked their magazine and miss it a lot. ...

I respect your decision, but … I'm sorry to hear it.

Perhaps, in the future, you may be with someone that will join Facebook with you. I always remember that the internet has many "experts"  espousing misinformation and manufactured outrage/problems, often peppered with insults and name calling.

What you do is really cool, Roo. I follow along with all of your posts. There's an entire planet of modelers, in all scales, that would love to see your efforts. Both, as inspiration in their modeling, but also just admiration of something they will never be able to do themselves.

Happy Railroading

Jim 

Jim.

I haven't gave up completely. Next weekend we are having a family day out where 3 of my children (all on Facebook) will be there along with some other members and friends and at some time I am going to ask the same question. Of course I will wait for the right moment I don't want the day spoilt by endless discussions about Facebook!  Already I have the feeling what they will say ......... "Dad you would not have the patience for it, and we don't want to see you get angry".

I know my kids and they know me.  Roo. 

I was on facebook and did away with it I did not like it at all.

Roo,

I've been back and forth with the FB thing but in the end I haven't joined. A mixture of objecting to their MO and not wanting to get drawn into too much time spent online. But there are a few relevant public groups where you can see all the posted content and comments even though you're not a member, you just can't post.

If you haven't already seen it, there's a 2-Rail O Scale & Proto:48 Model Railroading public group on FB which has some excellent modelling and expertise from top-notch P:48 and Ow5 modellers. Perhaps you could review that for a while and see how it goes.   

I should add turn off (don't allow) cookies in your browser for the FB site or they'll track you online after you visit anyway, even though you're not a member. 

Pete

Don't do Facebook. Never have, never will.

I'm a very private person so Face Book is not for me.  OGR fills my needs nicely.

I look at FB about twice a month. I use FireFox with an add on called FB Fence that compartmentalizes FB from other browser activity. The other thing I would recomnend not doing is using the "log in using FB" that appears on other web pages--who knows what can of worms you've opened.

A more significant problem with FB is only showing most recent posts rather than the whole thread as you would get on OGR for example. In an auto list I used to follow with many posts the original question seems to always get lost in the noise.

The Rockford O Scalers have had a Facebook page for a couple of years now with no problems noted.  If you decide to join Facebook, please consider checking out our page which features photos and videos of the layout.

   I almost quit this forum when the FB symbol first appeared.  Seeing it tempts me to daily to be honest.  It's in the top ten most offensive things I've seen here. 

(the whopper was my favorite burger ..I've had less than one a year average since the 80s after a bad experience and corporate appathy using other business policy as an excuse("but they do it" don't cut it as an excuse. I only want to know what the business I'm dealing with does). Sears, same thing after new century policy changes . I only swap out broken Craftsman now. I sooner buy dollar store tools)  ...then again, it has contributed more to the forum fiscally than I can, that's a definite I can't deny.

 I hate it when folks link to it without warning us too. Considering some of the content on FB, and some of the links to other sites with questionable material that get deleted, I don't see a flat playfield.

I don't have many friends left alive. The majority are under 50 and not members either. Most that are, only are so they can connect to younger family.    The attitude of most folk under 30 is that you can't possibly live without FB.   I.e. like any other fence, the view varies differently on both side; gather your info objectively, with some salt, and decide for yourself if the risks are worth the reward. 

 Might I suggest a Lifelock subscription before you do begin though. There is ALWAYS a backdoor when it comes to computers. That comes from a family computer/areospace engineer. (I kinda knew that. I know more than many;  but I'm a tech dinosaur really. So to hear it from them and know they wait at the bank every payday to transfer funds out of the direct depost account asap, is a nice reassuring affirmation I'm not overly paranoid) 

  I've joined and dropped FB three times this century. The last time was just because folks claimed the privacy was much better now...(not)   I never stayed for more than a week or two either. Far to much drama, far to much soliciting beginning within hours of joining, far too many freind requests from people I never met..(I never even posted. How do they know my interests without extreme tracking?)(I hate personalized search too. Boolean was real, the results are far too commercial to be worth a poop today.)

  I mostly blame FB for my having to change my ph# which was basically the same here since 1958.  I've gotten 3 solicitation calls so far this year. All from local health businesses, likely because I gave another business my phone number....my new doctor.   My last number, the selling of my number to health care solicitors was more obvious, likely done by my health insurance company. (I block it if I call now, and don't release it for callbacks anymore. It may kill me; but the stress of releasing it might anyhow.)

  Finally, after some research, I'm not convinced that the verdicts in court cases over the theft of the FB idea as a whole were correct. Even with a total about-face of policy, I don't know if I could support the platform due to the CEOs earlier reputation. Kinda like Apple vs MS; besides the operations, I trusted "Quiet Bill" more than "Showboat Steve" (meeting them and watching Bill do binary while I played with W-beta floppys, I cancelled my coding classes and focused on 3 old command line laguagesllangu. Bill especially deserved all that money. "Driven to change the world" barely covers it. 😉  

Darn I hoped "spellwreck" was still sleeping 😕

We have a Facebook page as well as an internet site at Reading Society of Model Engineers, and feel both have done well to promote our interests in the railroading hobby.  I also find my personal Facebook page to be of assistance in finding others with RR interest as well as information and inspiration.  Even if they do track my personal spending preferences, they must be perplexed at inability to match my spending habits with their big advertisers.  Of course, I wouldn't mind if Atlas O, Golden Gate Depot, or similar were to email me with purchase suggestions.  Naturally, you should carefully consider what others have said in this thread if you are in the witness protection program.

I thoroughly enjoy facebook. It lets me stay connected to old friends and see what they and their families are doing. I'm a big ww2 warbirds fan and the main organization that flies those planes is very active, from the winter maintenance, to restoration videos, to videos at airshows

Not sure how people get  robocalls due to FB.   I've been on Facebook for at least 14 years.   Never a robo call.

You just have to go thru all your settings.  A pain at first.    My personal FB has just my family and band members as friends.   I even use my Google Voice phone number with it. NO ties to my "real" number.

The reason I keep Facebook is because of our music pages.   Marketing our band on FB has paid huge dividends over the years.   The demographic that hits the most engagements is the 45-55 crowd, with fully 70% being women.

all of my family members live nowhere close to me, so we can keep up in realtime thru FB, as far as sharing pictures and other life events.

Does FB have issues?  Of course it does.  As with anything, just be careful...just like you have to be on OGR orany public online presence.   

Also, these days most "kids" Use Instagram and Twitter, and keep FB as a backup.

Twitter is nice with the character limit.   We (the band) market on all three platforms, and it works.

I've been on Facebook for a couple of years after avoiding it for more than a decade, basically to join a private/moderated group (Original Mini Truckers) to reconnect with some people I ran with in my truck club/car club days. I set it up so I have to accept a friend request for someone who wants to friend me. I've since joined a couple of O scale/O gauge groups, one related to micro layouts, and one related to industrial/shelf layouts (all private/moderated). I don't get a lot of annoying E-mails, messages, or notifications on my phone or computer (used my GMail e-mail address). I don't put out private information and don't post a lot of comments. Facebook is pretty much what you make it, but having worked with computers for so long, my view is there is very little privacy left.

Where a lot of people mess up is they post every single thing they do on social media, then wonder why the house gets broken into while on vacation, etc. If you don't want the general public to see it, don't post it. I do have some issues with targeted marketing, but sadly that comes with the territory of YouTube/Google, Twitter and Facebook/Instagram. They watch what you're watching and offer content to match your interests. That's a business decision as a lot of it is for you to see ads from sponsors. It becomes a personal decision how much you're willing to tolerate in this area.

No way....they produce enough hot air to power a large city....and enough B.S. to fertilize the Bronx botanical garden.... 

Ads? Facebook is a free site, like here. I tolerate them because it keeps the site free for us to use. 

OK I know most of you blokes probably know this but I'm usually 10 years behind everyone when it comes to the internet.

I just found out you can check out facebook forums without joining....... I googled "Facebook O scale" and came up with a lot of top modelling way above my head, top stuff just could not keep up with it, at 76 years old I can't change my "Mr Average" modelling style so it looks like I failed my first facebook test, guess you blokes here will have to put up with me stumbling  along at the bench or the layout at least it doesn't depress me I'm happy doing what I do I know my place. I just hope I haven't done anything silly to tie me into the book.

Roo.

In my case, I find pop-up ads more related to my Google searches than my Facebook groups. Anyone want to suggest not searching for anything?

Roo posted:

...I just found out you can check out facebook forums without joining...

Yes, you can look at certain FB pages without joining. However, as soon as you go to ANY FB page, FB sets a tracking cookie on your computer, whether you have logged in or not! And from that point on, FB knows about every web site you visit.

Would you like to know what Faceplant CEO Mark Zuckerberg really thinks about you? CLICK HERE.

Rich Melvin posted:

Roo posted:

...I just found out you can check out facebook forums without joining...

Yes, you can look at certain FB pages without joining. However, as soon as you go to ANY FB page, FB sets a tracking cookie on your computer, whether you have logged in or not! And from that point on, FB knows about every web site you visit.

Would you like to know what Faceplant CEO Mark Zuckerberg really thinks about you? CLICK HERE.

It certainly gives you something to think about. I better go out and buy some tape! Roo.

I tend to agree with Rich about FB (hint,I don't have an account). Arguing Google does similar things is not a defense, that is like the kid telling his parents they shouldn't be upset he is vaping bc all the other kids are doing it,too. It also ignores that with google it is easier to protect yourself and your exposure is different than Facebook depending on how you use google's products.

Put it this way,FB's basic philosophy is they can do anything they want and then says 'well,it is legal'. FB does everything they can to probe what you are doing,even if you figure out your privacy settings you are exposed. Everything you post on FB is theirs,every message,every photo,everything is theirs and their basic business model is to exploit that. Tracking cookies basically is like having a bug planted on your computer, they are getting information on you and selling it, it is why ads pop up bc you wrote something in an email,you surfed for information elsewhere.

They also basically allow third party people on the FB world and allow them pretty much unlimited access to your data, and likely still are, Cambridge analytics was not a bug in their code (I know that for a fact, I know people who work for third party developers,FB openly told them they could get unlimited access to user data). If you go on facebook go in knowing that you are on their to be exploited and used, that it is designed to make it impossible to keep your information from others, that they deliberately make it so if you don't check constantly you lose what you want to see then to find it exposes you to all kinds of tracking and ads that are almost malware, you can't assume good intent and keep that in mind when using it. You can use a fake name on there, but because of their intrusion into your computer or phone, I guarantee you they know your real name,it isn't even difficult. I have friends (unlike myself) who are experts at things like big data and data mining,at how much 'metadata' is a joke in terms of privacy, and you get the point.

Take a look at how FB was founded,take a look at what they do vs what they say, and it isn't pretty,as are neither Zuckerberg or Sandberg,personally I think they are almost sociopath like in not caring about what they do

I am not saying FB isn't worth it, there are some great things on there, groups, companies have sites on there (though I try to avoid companies who only do facebook,if they don't have a website I try not to use them,not that a website can't hack you),just be aware of the potential cost of using it and that they not only aren't your friend, they also might be actively helping those who are worse. Again,this is true of social media in general and Google is no saint, but FB IMO is not worth the risk personally, and the convenience of knowing my cousin's 2nd wife is now an ex in realtime doesn't matter to me

Facebook....Is it worth it?

NO

I found FB to be rather boring most of the time, I do not have a account however my wife does and also has stock in it,  I asked her to get rid of it but noooo,  it will make money she said.  I am not a fan of any large tech companies, I believe they have far to much power.

Nev, do you like sea urchins?  I tried them once in a restaurant near Grand Central Stn in NYC when i was on vacation.  Haven't had them since.  Friend told me I should try Fb so I set up American O-Scale in the UK as a closed group and I've also let the kids contact me and share what youngsters call jokes.  

Still enjoying life, member of several O-scale, D&H, Ludgershall groups, etc.  Try it you can always never use it ever again!

Jason

I've been on it since 2009, and the benefits outweigh the burdens for me. I use it primarily for keeping up with family, and for membership in the numerous FB groups that reflect my disparate interests, including 3 rail trains. You just need to be aware of privacy management. As for privacy online, no such thing exists, and even the major credit rating bureaus and banks have been compromised. Its likely that our"private" info is out there everywhere. So much for the modern world.

Lots of correct and incorrect info on this thread. Even by people I would expect would know better. 

I am an IT Security Solutions Director by trade. Do I use FB? Yes, but I know what I'm doing and have systems and controls in place to protect me and my privacy. I could scare the socks off people if I wanted to, but it comes down to personal education, tolerance for risk, and privacy. It's not just FB. The whole world has changed. AI and ML are pouring over videos and audio of you and your family. Anyone have an Amazon Alexa? We do. But if you don't know what you are doing I would think twice about putting a live microphone in your house. So you really have two choices... 1. Get educated and take precautions or 2. Don't participate. Unfortunately, as I mentioned above, you really won't have a choice anymore. Your data is being gathered and sold today.

Here is a fun example... I was in the office building where I used to work. I don't have access to their Wi-Fi any longer obviously, but since I forgot to "forget" that network on my iPhone something interesting happened. When I got home and got onto FB (On my PC, not my phone) I got a message asking me to give information about my former employer. It said "We see that you recently visited XYZ". So because my phone recognized the SSID for that Wi-Fi and associated it to my phone, even though I didn't actually connect it knew where I was, and then passed that information to FB. There is more going on behind the scenes than most people realize...

I started and manage the 2R/P48 group, S Scale group, 3R to 2R conversion group and a few others. I find that our posts are far deeper and more hands-on than over here. Sort of the way this site used to be in the early 2000's. Sharing video, photos, etc... is much easier on FB. Not to mention how well it integrates with mobile devices. I can attend a show and stream live video to my group from my phone. Pretty cool.

Can it be used in a safe manner? Yes. Is it safe/private right out of the box with no education/settings/controls/3rd party apps and hardware? I'd say probably not. Is it changing everyday? Yes, and you have to keep up with it.

Joe Hohmann posted:

In my case, I find pop-up ads more related to my Google searches than my Facebook groups. Anyone want to suggest not searching for anything?

I'm not professional like some of the respondents here, but I had been led to believe there are some search engines that are less intrusive than Google. 

I use one called Startpage for generic web searching, though I admit I do use Google when I want to look at maps, as Startpage does not have that feature. 

Maybe I've been misled and Startpage is just as bad, so hopefully some who really know what they are talking about can confirm or dispute.

Rich's comment is a bit ironic.... I know he's been retired from the magazine for a while, but the logo at the top of the page has been up there for a while.  Of course, that logo (along with the many train advertisers) is part of what keeps the forum free, so.......

And in case it's not obvious, I don't have a FB account, though I have viewed some pages that let you without logging in, so I guess I am screwed anyway in terms of FB grabbing any of my data they deem acceptable until they are told otherwise by law enforcement.

-Dave

I check out Facebook once in a while to see which of the neighbors is bad mouthing the other neighbors, other then that there is really nothing to spend anytime on.

Dave45681 posted:

I'm not professional like some of the respondents here, but I had been led to believe there are some search engines that are less intrusive than Google. I use one called Startpage for generic web searching, though I admit I do use Google when I want to look at maps,-Dave

I use DuckDuckGo, it seems to work as well as google, maybe better and claims not to track you browsing. I will use Google for their maps as they are better than the Bing maps that DDG uses.

jonnyspeed posted:

Lots of correct and incorrect info on this thread. Even by people I would expect would know better. 

I am an IT Security Solutions Director by trade. Do I use FB? Yes, but I know what I'm doing and have systems and controls in place to protect me and my privacy. I could scare the socks off people if I wanted to, but it comes down to personal education, tolerance for risk, and privacy. It's not just FB. The whole world has changed. AI and ML are pouring over videos and audio of you and your family. Anyone have an Amazon Alexa? We do. But if you don't know what you are doing I would think twice about putting a live microphone in your house. So you really have two choices... 1. Get educated and take precautions or 2. Don't participate. Unfortunately, as I mentioned above, you really won't have a choice anymore. Your data is being gathered and sold today.

Here is a fun example... I was in the office building where I used to work. I don't have access to their Wi-Fi any longer obviously, but since I forgot to "forget" that network on my iPhone something interesting happened. When I got home and got onto FB (On my PC, not my phone) I got a message asking me to give information about my former employer. It said "We see that you recently visited XYZ". So because my phone recognized the SSID for that Wi-Fi and associated it to my phone, even though I didn't actually connect it knew where I was, and then passed that information to FB. There is more going on behind the scenes than most people realize...

I started and manage the 2R/P48 group, S Scale group, 3R to 2R conversion group and a few others. I find that our posts are far deeper and more hands-on than over here. Sort of the way this site used to be in the early 2000's. Sharing video, photos, etc... is much easier on FB. Not to mention how well it integrates with mobile devices. I can attend a show and stream live video to my group from my phone. Pretty cool.

Can it be used in a safe manner? Yes. Is it safe/private right out of the box with no education/settings/controls/3rd party apps and hardware? I'd say probably not. Is it changing everyday? Yes, and you have to keep up with it.

Thank you everyone for responding.

When I started this thread I should have realised that it would open the proverbial "Can of Worms" and it did. I am 76 years old age does not concern me I still go out in the bush with a pack on and live in a tent for days while walking all over the place but with technology I have fallen behind I just don't have the time to do everything I want to do, so something has to fall by the wayside and what I have chosen is the Computer. While everyone else is singing the praise of technology I still use DC for my layout my machines are all manual machines no CNC I make things using my hands no plastic mold machines or are they called 3D machines, I still do banking by going to a bank my 4 children call me an old fashioned bloke but my mind is active along with my body I see no need to change my lifestyle I am having fun the one thing in my life where I fail is communicating with people I struggle to answer emails I dislike phone calls and cell phones I don't have a television set yet I still have friends and visitors who come around for Friday's train running and one of them happens to be a computer technician along with his sons who set up all kinds of programs and install computers in the business world who are all on Facebook so tempting it may be I am not going to join facebook as I said before this Forum might not be perfect for some people but it suits me and that's all that matters and it's the only one I am on. Now where did I leave my Abacus I have to reconciliate my bank statement that I received in the mail printed on paper delivered by a human being called a postman except he now rides a motorbike not a pedal one some things do change a little bit ! Thanks again. Roo.

You can use other broswers to connect for a less inrusive Google search (personally Bing WAS better until they started to copy google and ignore boolean searches.) Some will search bing and google and combine them for you too.

  I find today they find you what they  "want you to know" instead of what you "need to know" añd the more personalized the less impartial and objective the results.

  I didn't catch up before my post. Duck Duck Go is one that uses Bing and Google results to compile their own results.  

And it's not collection of general data that concerns me so much as the personalized data. I see that as being downright dangerous to any "free" society. If I had more to lose, I'd be more corncerned.  I don't even mind ads within reason; that trade fed me for a while. But greed and desperation has taken that too far again and again.

Roo, It's always great to hear someone literally on the opposite side of the world have similar tastes in some things that make me feel odd(er) at times 😎