Fandor Pennsylvania Passenger set

That is a great set.  You are correct that the company name was changed to Dorfan for sales in the US.  Beyond that I do not know a lot.  I have some Dorfan pieces I picked up at auction.  Fun trains and certainly a nice addition to any collection!

Founded in 1910 by Kraus and his cousins the Forcheimer brothers.  The two names are based on the names of their respective mothers - Fanny and Dora - so it was Fandor in Germany and, when the brothers moved to the US, they called their trains Dorfan.  Dorfan imported trains from Fandor and they also made their own trains here in the United States.

  The Fandor exports to the US were a mix of items that matched US configurations and European trains that had been "Americanized" with the addition of things like a cow catcher.

Here are a few examples:

Americanized Passenger Set

American Outline Passenger Set

American/European Mix Freight Set with Americanized Engine

European Passenger Set

American Style Freight Cars

European Style Freight

Generic but with American style

Comparisons  Fandor and Ives Litho Treatment

Fandor

Ives

Thanks for the input guys.

I hope that buying this pre-war tinplate stuff is not habit forming (LOL)

Lionelski...how did that old commercial line go ....bet you can't stop with just one....

Heh Heh .. I remember this moment when I bought my first Hornby .... now ahem XXX locos later ...

Wonderful information.....thank you...

Peter

Very interesting and cool.

Now you can look for Dorfan/Fandor stations.  Here is my latest Fandor acquisition  station. Dorfan also offered this station.

This is a great Fandor set in the box with a nice Kraus label.   I love the transformer with the light bulb which is uncommon with these sets.   If you bring it to York, I would love to see it if we could arrange to meet.   I am in the Yellow Hall A-19 and specialize in Fandor and mostly Dorfan, although not selling much this year.  Some great pictures posted here.  Lots of history between Fandor (Joseph Kraus & Co.) and Dorfan, as Fandor was started in 1910 with Joseph Kraus and his cousin Julius Forchheimer and Dorfan in 1924 with Julius Forchheimer, his borther Milton and John C. Koerber, Chief Engineer for both Kraus and later Dorfan and also Bing.   Doc Robbie wrote in the 1960 Standard Gauge Association periodical that Dorfan carried a look and feel of European trains but were distinctly American, making them really interesting.

Anyway, a really nice set which I would love to see up close.  Thanks.

@Lionelski posted:

Thanks for the input guys.

I hope that buying this pre-was tinplate stuff is not habit forming (LOL)

Don't worry it is.    I am a scale model railroader through and through but have a nice small collection of standard gauge now and a loop of track to run it on.  I love it because it is the complete opposite of my "serious" hobby.

@Dorfanman posted:

This is a great Fandor set in the box with a nice Kraus label.   I love the transformer with the light bulb which is uncommon with these sets.   If you bring it to York, I would love to see it if we could arrange to meet.   I am in the Yellow Hall A-19 and specialize in Fandor and mostly Dorfan, although not selling much this year.  Some great pictures posted here.  Lots of history between Fandor (Joseph Kraus & Co.) and Dorfan, as Fandor was started in 1910 with Joseph Kraus and his cousin Julius Forchheimer and Dorfan in 1924 with Julius Forchheimer, his borther Milton and John C. Koerber, Chief Engineer for both Kraus and later Dorfan and also Bing.   Doc Robbie wrote in the 1960 Standard Gauge Association periodical that Dorfan carried a look and feel of European trains but were distinctly American, making them really interesting.

Anyway, a really nice set which I would love to see up close.  Thanks.

Hi Dorfanman,

The nickel (chrome?) transformer with the bulb is what initially drew me into this set. Perhaps you can answer a few questions for me?

As you can see from the pics, it came with an adapter to screw into a light socket - as I know NOTHING about Fandor, I've been hesitant to screw it into one to test the set out - would it be OK if I did? The wires look really good.

What does the bulb do? Reduce the current? What if I test it out and the bulb is dead? Would that cause a problem

From the pic of the trains in the set box you can see that it came with 2 bulbs, one larger than the other (neither are marked with a wattage). Just a coincidence or do the different bulbs serve a different purpose?

My first Fandor purchase and I have no idea of its monetary value - can you give me an idea? Everything is in fantastic condition. I won't let on at this point what I paid to avoid embarrassment if I got snookered.

I also found the track interesting - it is much like Lionel track but with neat clips on each one. They are there to just hold the track together better - right?

For fear that it and the box would get beat up in the 245 mile car ride to York (with my, and my friends' luggage, and our our purchases coming home), no, I'm not bringing it to York. I'd be happy to take more pics for you if you'd like though

@GG1 4877 posted:

Don't worry it is.    I am a scale model railroader through and through but have a nice small collection of standard gauge now and a loop of track to run it on.  I love it because it is the complete opposite of my "serious" hobby.

Hi Jonathan,

I also have a few Lionel Standard gauge sets - two usually travel around my Christmas tree. Except for last year when I ran a couple pre-war Lionel O Gauge tin passenger car sets there.

One of my recent posts on my website ( www.Warrenvillerailroad.com ) was about Standard gauge and included a few pics of my "collection" of them.

Sorry you are not bringing this to York.   I would loved to have seen it and would love to study it closely.   I wondered if there are any model markings on the train and box.  This is a US Fandor conversion with appropriate cowcatcher pilot and bell added for the US market.   It looks like a 20 volt Fandor 1603/5 Set from 1929, which is the earliest Kraus catalog I have ever seen and have access.  The cars were popular in several steam and electric loco sets and were the 1211 Packwagen or Baggage car (1926-1932) and the 2 1210 Passenger cars (same dates).  Of course the PENNSYLVANIA RAILROAD markings are for the US market.

I believe the light bulb is a resister, but without testing it, I can not be sure.  It also would indicate power to the unit.  The screw in adapter was common in the Pre-1930s and was used to screw into a lamp light before there were standardize appliance electrical plugs.  If there were plugs available, you simply removed the screw adapter.  There is a track connector unit.  Most sets would have come with 12 pieces of track but this set box does not look to have space.  You are correct that the clips are to hold the track together.

There is a similar boxed freight set on ebay for under $200, although the engine is incomplete.  Your box is good with the exception of the torn label.  I would price your set at no less than $500 and perhaps more and would enjoy purchasing it from you if you would like.  The set would find a home with its other brothers and sisters.  My favorite is a wooden boxed set which is very early.

I love the history of Krauss-Dorfan.   In 1936, Hitler took ownership of most of the train manufacturers in Nurenburg, which was also home to the Nazi party.  Nurenburg was the capital of the world's greatest toy train manufacturing and most of it was owned and run by Jewish entreprenuers. You can only guess what happened in the 1930s to many of them.   The US leveled Nurenburg in WWII, not to get to the Nazi party but to stop the old train factories which had been converted to munitions works.  The story goes that Josef Kraus was given advice that he was in danger, and he left Germany to England and later to New York where he united with his cousins and friends at Dorfan.  It would make an interesting study what happened to the families of these famous train manufacturers (Bing, Bub, Fandor, and a long list of companies), but not Marklin in Munich) that remained behind.  I took a trip to Nurenburg to find the Kraus factory which was reported bombed in WWII, but we found it.   There is a museum in Leipzig, Germany where an extensive Kraus collection is housed, a gift from a prominent German collector who is on the Dorfan Facebook site and gave me information about the collection.  I have to make the trip, which would be challenging at my age.

if you want to have more money to spend at York, let me know.

John Wheeler  412-352-0471  dorfanman@wheeler.net

Thanks for the info Dorfanman (John).

I see no model markings on the box or engine. I do have the track connector unit and 8 curve pieces of track, 1 straight. Makes an oval with the connector track. The track fits in the box on top of the track connector unit shown in the picture

The guy I bought it from said it was from 1912, but your dating seems more logical. I've corrected the title of this thread to eliminate 1912

I'm impressed with the German quality. The gears on the side frame are perfect and clean, as are the teeth on the wheels. Speaking of the wheels, there is absolutely no sign of "exploding zinc pest " like one finds on prewar Lionel Standard gauge wheels.

The whole train reflects very little use, cosmetically and mechanically.

If I were to ever sell it I will certainly contact you. Right now I'm lovin' it and want to continue to learn more about it.

I will look you up in the yellow hall, look forward to meeting you and seeing your Fandor/Dorfan goodies

@Lionelski posted:

Thanks for the input guys.

I hope that buying this pre-was tinplate stuff is not habit forming (LOL)

Oh, it's habit forming.

@Dorfanman posted:

Sorry you are not bringing this to York.   I would loved to have seen it and would love to study it closely.   I wondered if there are any model markings on the train and box.  This is a US Fandor conversion with appropriate cowcatcher pilot and bell added for the US market.   It looks like a 20 volt Fandor 1603/5 Set from 1929, which is the earliest Kraus catalog I have ever seen and have access.  The cars were popular in several steam and electric loco sets and were the 1211 Packwagen or Baggage car (1926-1932) and the 2 1210 Passenger cars (same dates).  Of course the PENNSYLVANIA RAILROAD markings are for the US market.

I believe the light bulb is a resister, but without testing it, I can not be sure.  It also would indicate power to the unit.  The screw in adapter was common in the Pre-1930s and was used to screw into a lamp light before there were standardize appliance electrical plugs.  If there were plugs available, you simply removed the screw adapter.  There is a track connector unit.  Most sets would have come with 12 pieces of track but this set box does not look to have space.  You are correct that the clips are to hold the track together.

There is a similar boxed freight set on ebay for under $200, although the engine is incomplete.  Your box is good with the exception of the torn label.  I would price your set at no less than $500 and perhaps more and would enjoy purchasing it from you if you would like.  The set would find a home with its other brothers and sisters.  My favorite is a wooden boxed set which is very early.

I love the history of Krauss-Dorfan.   In 1936, Hitler took ownership of most of the train manufacturers in Nurenburg, which was also home to the Nazi party.  Nurenburg was the capital of the world's greatest toy train manufacturing and most of it was owned and run by Jewish entreprenuers. You can only guess what happened in the 1930s to many of them.   The US leveled Nurenburg in WWII, not to get to the Nazi party but to stop the old train factories which had been converted to munitions works.  The story goes that Josef Kraus was given advice that he was in danger, and he left Germany to England and later to New York where he united with his cousins and friends at Dorfan.  It would make an interesting study what happened to the families of these famous train manufacturers (Bing, Bub, Fandor, and a long list of companies), but not Marklin in Munich) that remained behind.  I took a trip to Nurenburg to find the Kraus factory which was reported bombed in WWII, but we found it.   There is a museum in Leipzig, Germany where an extensive Kraus collection is housed, a gift from a prominent German collector who is on the Dorfan Facebook site and gave me information about the collection.  I have to make the trip, which would be challenging at my age.

if you want to have more money to spend at York, let me know.

John Wheeler  412-352-0471  dorfanman@wheeler.net

Great story John and great history of the company. Thanks for enlightening us.

Very interesting thread. I love history, so thanks for the lesson John. I'm a bit slow and it took me until about mid-thread to get the name re-arrangement...FAN-DOR and DOR-FAN. Clever. Thanks for sharing Lionelski.

Dave

Picture from German Kraus catalog 1930. This set is for high current and was only for export. Was not allowed in Germany.

Arne