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Hi,

I made an impulse buy and picked up a DCS setup, it's being shipped so I don't have it yet. I'm heading to York this year amd didnt want to limit myself to Lionel, currently running TMCC and conventional. My specific question is, I don't have any PS2/3 engines, just one PS1 steamer. Can I test this upon receipt without a PS2/3 engine to ensure it's working within the return window? Here is what I bought:

Screenshot_20220831-113743_eBayScreenshot_20220831-113810_eBayScreenshot_20220831-113748_eBay

Thanks a lot for your help.

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It's hard to tell for sure from the pics but it looks like you purchased one of the first generation units - the threads on the thumbwheel of the remote are thinner and closer together on the early models.  On the back of the TIU what, if any, revision is listed?

Regardless, the only way to fully test it is to use a DCS engine.

-Greg

Last edited by Greg Houser
@Greg Houser posted:

It's hard to tell for sure from the pics but it looks like you purchased one of the first generation units - the threads on the thumbwheel of the remote are thinner and closer together on the early models.  On the back of the TIU what, if any, revision is listed?

My guess is a REV. G (no sticker indication on the back). The thumb wheel grip and the VHS tape are good indicators.  While not the most desirable revision, if it works it should serve you well.

Be sure to add good circuit protection (or use a good transformer with modern circuit breakers) and add TVS protection to the TIU to prevent damage to the TIU from voltage spikes.

Last edited by H1000
@H1000 posted:

My guess is a REV. G (no sticker indication on the back). The thumb wheel grip and the VHS tape are good indicators.  While not the most desirable revision, if it works it should serve you well.

Be sure to add good circuit protection (or use a good transformer with modern circuit breakers) and add TVS protection to the TIU to prevent damage to the TIU from voltage spikes.

I don't see a pic of back of the TIU but I completely missed the VHS tape next to the remote. 

To the OP.  If you have signal issues you can get filters from Susan Deats - she still sells them already made (at least as of 2 months ago):

https://slsprr.net/technical/filter.htm

-Greg

It wouldn't be a complete DCS test but you  could do a limited test with your conventional engine.  Connect one of the variable channels to the track.  One test would be to turn FIXED on and use the transformer to control the speed.  the 2nd test would be to set the variable channel to, not sure off hand what it is called, variable output mode (not fixed in other words) and then you use the remote to control the speed of the engine.

Limited test for sure but if you can't do anything else this is at least something.  Of course neither tests if the DCS signal itself is being generated.

walt

Great advice so far. I would recommend that you also get Barry Boskowitz (sp?) Book on DCS, which I regard as the DCS Bible. Arnold

@Landsteiner posted:

Barry Broskowitz.  You only missed by one "r."  . Available for 34.95 at Amazon.  3rd Edition.  The DCS Companion.

Beware that first and second editions are still out there for sale, sometimes for as much or a higher price.  They're probably priced as being collectors' items. 

IMO, the 2nd edition is ok for most situations, but only if it can be found at a substantial discount.

Ok, I got and opened this thing. It was an ebay purchase, came up at 6am for buy it now of $150 including shipping so I jumped. Seller has great feedback and says it works fine. I feel like I'm in over my head now. Same confusion I felt with TMCC but this seems way more advanced than my CAB1. Part of me wants to just flip it for a profit but I should really figure out DCS and not limit myself.

So I plan to hook up my z1000 to a test track and do some testing, hopefully in the next few days. For now the remote seems to work fine scrolling the menus and the TIU at least lights up.  I'm sure I'll be back with more questions...I'm too confused and ignorant to ask an intelligent question at this point.

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Also, I updated my profile as someone suggested. I'm in the Hershey, PA area.

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Last edited by PRRick
@PRRick posted:

Ok, I got and opened this thing. It was an ebay purchase, came up at 6am for buy it now of $150 including shipping so I jumped. Seller has great feedback and says it works fine. I feel like I'm in over my head now. Same confusion I felt with TMCC but this seems way more advanced than my CAB1. Part of me wants to just flip it for a profit but I should really figure out DCS and not limit myself.

$150 including shipping for a TIU AND remote? Looks like Santa came early this year! If you can find one, you might want to pick up a MTH 50-1032 - TIU/TMCC-Legacy 6' Connector Cable, which will let you connect your TMCC base to the TIU, so that you can control both TMCC and DCS engines with just the 1 remote. It's not needed (you can hook up both systems without it and control the TMCC engines with the Cab 1 remote, and DCS engines with the DCS remote), but could make life simpler with just 1 remote to control everything.

Oh my,  it sounds like you are overwhelmed and confused. I'll play the good Samaritan and take that off your hands for $200.   What a deal! Instant $50.00 profit and no more worries !!  Lol   Actually I just wanted to let you know I have Barry's book second addition I would sell to you for 1/2 list plus shipping.  If interested my email is in my profile.  JP

All you need to do now is pop that "Welcome to the World of Digital Command" tape into the VCR and you will be up and running . . .

What? . . . No VCR?  

OK, plan B is a much younger version of Rich Melvin starring in the "Video Guide to the MTH DCS System" circa 2002 here on YouTube.  

I am in York and I would be happy to test your TIU if you want to make the short drive.  I have a TIU port tester that we can use to test the DCS signal on each port, and we can plug it into my layout and run some PS2 engines.

Bob

Hi PRRick,

Looks like you scored on Ebay!  That's a great price even for an older DCS set.  As others have observed, the sticker on the bottom that says "Rev. H1" indicates you have a good serviceable TIU.  As long as all the features are working you should be good to go.

If you are coming to York and can be there Wednesday night before the meet, I would invite you to come to the DCS User Group Meeting.  We can update the firmware in your TIU and remote so you can have all the latest DCS features.  There's a good chance your set hasn't been updated.  To check your firmware version, turn on the remote and watch the screen as it boots up.  If this set was never updated it will probably have "Version 2.10" or "Version 2.21."  Both are missing significant features.

Wow, lots of great replies, thanks a lot! I have been busy with work so just had a chance to skim, I'll read each reply more thoroughly soon and answer some folks.

Good news. I stopped by my favorite LHS. They had a PS2 Amtrak Surfliner for $65, said 1200 miles, guess that's high? Anyways, I explained my situation and the owner said to take it with me on loan to test my system and bring it back when I'm done. Talk about service! Shout out to Cool Trains and the owner Ted. Things check out okay with 'Fixed Out 1". No lights, not sure if that's an engine issue or something else? Looks like it uses incandescent lights still (not LED) so maybe just a bulb?

The manual states Fixed In1 must be powered for the TIU to work. Do I need another transformer to test the additional TIU inputs/outputs?

One last thing, is this engine the 3V OR 5V ps2 board? May keep it since the price is right.

Please excuse my portrait mode video. Thanks again!

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Last edited by Rich Melvin

If that is a PS2 5V board, and I have no reason to argue, you might well consider your actual purchase price to be $365 because those boards have been known to go bad "without notice."  The failure of the lights might just be an "early warning" of doom, and, if you can find upgrade DCS boards, they are not cheap to have somebody else install.

Best to look for PS2 3 volt or PS3 engines for the long haul.

Chuck

I have an older 5v RK f3 engine that I use exclusively on my portable layouts. The headlight quit working due to something with the 5v board quite a while ago. Not long after that I decided to open it up and just hard wire a bulb to track power but before doing that I tried using a LED bulb with a 550 ohm resistor. Much to my surprise, that worked. Plus, a 3mm LED in the headlight lens was much brighter than the incandescent bulb.

If your headlight is out, make sure it not just turned off on the remote like grj said and make sure the 6v bulb inside isn't burnt-out. If it is something with the ps2 board you can try a LED replacement or just hard wire a 14-18 volt bulb to track power.

I don't think 1200 miles is very high. The above mentioned f3 has almost 5500 miles on it. For $65, that's a good deal. See if your dealer will throw in a new set of traction tires.

Last edited by H1000

The TIU itself needs to be powered to apply DCS signal to the outputs. This can be done by applying power on the FIXED VOLTAGE IN 1 connection or by using a small 12 - 18 volt transformer with an amperage rating of about 1 amp or more on the AUX POWER INPUT port. I recommend the later of those two options.

With the TIU powered via the AUX POWER INPUT port, you can use your transformer(s) to power any of the TIU "VOLTAGE IN" ports and not worry about losing DCS signal to all outputs when the FIXED VOLTAGE IN 1 connection loses power due to a short or other power failure.

Congratulations on getting your PS2 locomotive to go around a simple circle of track.

Before you make a major investment, let me suggest a few experiments:

  1. Expand your circle to include several switches.  Make sure you wire all tracks (all 3 legs of the switches) correctly.  Test your DCS setup and see how it works.  If that goes OK, proceed to #2 below.
  2. Buy the DCS-TMCC cable and hook up TMCC to the setup.  Try running both PS2 and TMCC locomotives using DCS via the DCS hand-held.


If BOTH experiments go well, then I think you might be OK.  But I wouldn't go further until both of those experiments worked flawlessly and consistently over a period of a couple weeks.

George

@G3750 posted:

Congratulations on getting your PS2 locomotive to go around a simple circle of track.

Before you make a major investment, let me suggest a few experiments:

  1. Expand your circle to include several switches.  Make sure you wire all tracks (all 3 legs of the switches) correctly.  Test your DCS setup and see how it works.  If that goes OK, proceed to #2 below.
  2. Buy the DCS-TMCC cable and hook up TMCC to the setup.  Try running both PS2 and TMCC locomotives using DCS via the DCS hand-held.


If BOTH experiments go well, then I think you might be OK.  But I wouldn't go further until both of those experiments worked flawlessly and consistently over a period of a couple weeks.

George

There's a much better way @PRRick, you've already made the investment and you've got nothing to lose at this point. Just as Rich Melvin said in his video, hook the TIU up to your layout and start experimenting / playing with your new engine.  You can run a signal test right from the remote to ensure your have solid signal all throughout your layout. Use the engine you have and send it around at about 10 SMPH and start the signal test anything within 8-10 is excellent, and anything below 5 is where I'd start to look at condition of the track or potentially changing some wiring.  I've installed dozens of DCS systems and only twice did I ever have to modify the layout wiring. In any case, the TIU and Command base can be operated independently of each other and should not interfere with each other either. They don't have to be connected together using a MTH 50-1032 cable but can be if you want to run everything from the DCS remote.

Experiment, learn and enjoy... That's how I did it with both TMCC & DCS. Plus, check out the video from @Rich Melvin, it covers pretty much everything for beginners. Barry Broskowitz also has an excellent digital book that covers every function, feature, and technical detail about the DCS system that you'd ever want to know. It can be purchased from Prime Mover Communications: 60-1386 DCS Companion - 3rd Edition

Last edited by H1000

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