Flyer Chief Polar Express sets and add on cars shipping this week!

Jerry

i agree, I think Ro will make it right.  Give them a call. 

Ben

I don't want to go through the hassle of sending it back no matter how well Ro handles returns.  Besides, it's packaged in the set box, not a separate one.  But Ro, or any dealer, shouldn't HAVE to fix the cheap-o shoddy things done in China!  In addition, I've already fixed the cracks.  They were caused by a hurried assembly where the frame was forced into the body shell.  Now even if you took a magnifying glass to it, you can't tell where the cracks were.  An application of MEK on the inside, seeping into the cracks due to capillary action, welded the plastic and even smoothed out any paint issues.  The observation end was incorrectly installed, as was the frame.  In disassembling the car, I also noticed that it has a baggage frame rather than a coach/observation one.  The baggage frame has the ladders riveted where the baggage doors are.  Same size frame, the only difference is the added ladders.  So this is even worse than a shoddy assembly issue.  The wrong part was used!  To add to the things on this set, one wheel set (an inner one) on the tender has a slight axial wobble to it.  It doesn't affect the running, but it bothers me.  Again, shoddy Chinese crap!  But at least the gauging is OK, and maybe I have a "rare factory variation" of the P.E. observation.  It certainly isn't a rare factory error.  They make too many of them! 

I put the engine/tender on the track, and using a Flyer transformer, it runs nicely (the locomotive can run without the tender BTW), but is very sensitive to any irregularities in the track.  I haven't tried the Flyer Chief system yet.  The sounds work fine (a bit loud, but that can be adjusted).  The paint is a bit thick and hides what can be nice rivet detail, but acceptable due to the cast in piping instead of separate piping and ladders.  Cast in details are OK for what this locomotive is, but again, you get what you pay for.  The lettering is minimal, but it surprised me to see the fine notices on the tender, both front and back.  I like the separate bell on the boiler front, which even has a cast in "clapper".  I also like the back head in the locomotive, and on my C&O Berk, I'll probably add engineer and fireman figures.  The valve gear action is also quite nice as are the driver wheels, which have see-through spokes.  I might also install classification lights, and thus void any warranty.  I can't leave anything alone.  I added working marker lights to a previous Flyonel observation car, for example. 

Sorry about the long message, guys.  I needed to vent...   

Unless Lionel's gone through all the trouble of making a new tool just for the baggage car frame, the same frame is used on all the passenger cars. 

Here's the underframes from my Alton set, Observation on the left, Baggage car on the right:

A can be seen, they're the same part.  The frame on the observation is stamped to allow for application of baggage steps.

Now, this doesn't excuse shoddy assembly.  I'm glad you've fixed the observation to your satisfaction, but I would've still sent it back.

Rusty

Rusty,

The frames are indeed exactly the same except for the addition of the baggage car steps.  In any case, the steps' addition makes the frame wrong for the observation car.  But unless something unfixable by me crops up, sending it back isn't in the cards.  Am I being too easy going?  Am I lazy for not sending things back?  Or am I just stubborn and wanting to "do it myself" like I have for over 50 years? 

At any rate, thanks for the suggestions, guys.  I'll be trying the Flyer Chief system tonight after work at Greenfield Village here in Dearborn.  I'm optimistic, but wary. 

Speaking of new tooling, it looks like Lionel DID make new tooling for the P.E. observation car, or at least modified the regular observation tool for the P.E.'s rounded roof.  The roof is one piece with the rest of the body, but it has the same window and roof vent arrangement as previous observation cars.  The locomotive tool probably has a provision for modification of the pilot and headlight also to make it more true to prototype than the P.E.  I'll compare my C&O Berk with the original 1225 when it comes.

BTW, Rusty, nice photos of the under sides of the cars.  The cast in brake detail is nicely visible, and the access to the light bulb sockets is clearly shown. 

If any of you guys here on the forum are ever in the Detroit area, look me up, and I'll get you into either the Henry Ford Museum or Greenfield Village for free.  Look for me at the upcoming 2016 NASG convention August 10-14 in nearby Novi, Michigan.  My unfinished layout will be open (such as it is) for Forum members, and a small Flyer hands-on layout will possibly be on display at the convention too. 

Hope the rest of you guys' sets are OK.

Sorry, I misunderstood about the baggage car steps being actually mounted on your observation's frame.

I don't think you're being lazy.  It's always a hassle returning things by mail, be it trains or t-shirts.

Anyways, I get most of my stuff through my LHS (an option that is disappearing for many folks) and turn things like this over to them. 

However, at minimum a letter to Lionel with photo's of the problems, including the wrong frame, should go to Lionel.  They should be made aware of the problems.  Can't guarantee they'll do anything about it.

Rusty

Rusty,

As far as writing Lionel, I frankly don't think they care.  If I knew who to send my rants to, I would, but it would fall on deaf ears.

Anyway, I powered up the locomotive using a Flyer 18B and after installing new batteries in the remote, I turned it on and the loco came to life. So far, so good.  It responded to all commands well and that made me feel better.  Up until I put the three cars that came with the set behind the loco.  With full power to the track, the lights in the cars shows up nicely.  HOWEVER.... one car's roof glowed like a Plasticville gas station!  The others didn't.  Examination showed that it looks like the Chinese skipped a painting step.  It looks like there should have been a coat of black paint on the roof to block the light shining through before the other colors were applied, then the "snow" coat to cover the roof.  There is no black to block the light, and light shines through the roof.  I plan on fixing it myself.... again.  I've done custom painting for many guys, and this is a simple job.  One coat of black on the inside followed by a coat of white to reflect the light.  HOWEVER (there's that word again) as a further note, the light bulb is held in the socket with rubber cement!  The bulb may not be able to be removed, since it WILL burn out with full power in Flyer Chief mode.  A fix?  Unsolder the socket from the wires, soak it in lacquer thinner, replace the bulb and re-solder the socket.  But I'll wait until the bulb burns out before doing that. 

The saga continues.  I can't wait until I try the "add-on" cars. 

Further comments withheld.

Entertaining video and well done!! What software program did you use to produce this?

Jerry, I would let Mike Reagan at Lionel or someone in customer service know of your damaged product. This is totally unacceptable in my opinion, they should take care of this issue for you. It's worth a try, A picture is worth a 1000 words.

How do I contact this Mike Reagan?  And does Lionel even HAVE a customer service?  And is it worth even trying?  I cannot even begin to express my disgust with Lionel.  My previous post was edited from what I originally said.

And by the way, the headlight on the PE locomotive is the weakest LED I've ever seen.  The back up light is brighter!  Not anything like in the video that trainboy10 made. 

You can look up Lionel.com, this is what I found.

Phone: 586-949-4100 or 800-454-6635

George,

Thanks.  If I can manage it, this set is going back.  One minor thing is bad, but there are too many things are wrong. A customer shouldn't have to fix something that's straight from the factory. I only wish the factory was still in Chesterfield, Michigan rather than where it is. 

Just so you all know, they have moved Mike Reagan out of the customer service and repair area.  The new guy is Dean Bussair (Spelling a guess).  I have not talked with him.  Mike has gone into the planning and production end of Lionel.

Beautiful. The gang who couldn't shoot straight rides again. At some point, it doesn't matter how good customer service is, or that they pay shipping both ways.

I admire all of you who have stuck with S scale. With the paucity of product, coupled with poor quality from one of the main players, it takes a ton of gumption to hang in there.

Jeff C

Wow... after reading about the PE deliveries w/issues in this and other threads, I'm very disappointed with, and for, you S scale guys. I know how much this set was being anticipated.

I think the guys that post here are a few of the many who got the PE set.  Those with problems are more likely to post than those who had none.  I have heard lots of positives from people about the set myself included.  

I bet that those with the O gauge PE sets have problems sometimes also.  

Well then, I'd also like to hear from those who have no problems.  So let's hear it guys!  Tell the world about a successful PE set.  That is, NO problems whatsoever.  Start a new thread!

This isn't the first time I've had issues with Lionel Flyer.   Other locomotives I bought in the past few years have also had something wrong.  The only one was the Great Northern U33C.  My Defender geep's sounds crapped out and the side frame fell off.  My Commemorative Docksider had a bottom plate for power pick up that was bent in assembly and the pick up shoes were not sprung correctly.  I've had freight car side frames fall apart.  This is not acceptable!  I seriously don't think the O line has problems like this in the same ratio. 

Jerry, I think if you were to talk to the O gauge guys or follow the o forum you would see it is littered with QC complaints.  Every big deal release had its portion of Lionel sucks threads.  The big boy and the scale berk off the top of my head had plenty of issues.  It's an issue with all gauges, and probably with most offshore produced product companies. It is what it is.  No one else is making a RTR set in S that appeals to a mass audience like the PE set, no one else is making challengers, y3s and lots of new diesel locos...just Lionel.  It's not an excuse by any means, it's an understanding.  I have had lots of issues with Legacy S gauge equipment, heck I had to have Lionel replace my defective ZW-L (at their cost). It gets old, no doubt...But it's part of the hobby at this point.  I remind myself that everyone is dealing with this, not just us S gauge guys. 

What I have far less tolerance for is a lack of commitment to growth in S, after all if they don't make the new "this or that" to begin with, there is nothing to complain about to begin with - and nothing to get excited about.  

Ben. 

What is interesting to me is you see some of these topics viewed hundreds of times, but there is only a couple of dozen people that write.  I have members of my train club that look to see what is said, but never enter into the conversation.  I wish those who view, but not write would tell us what they are thinking.

I don't know about the wallwart as I ran it on my layout. Only thing with my PE set is steps on observation car. My layout is half Fastrack and American Models train ran great on 18 volts 180 watt brick.

Bob

Just saw that these were released and they look gorgeous and NASSAU Hobby has them instock and free shipping i think i might have to start a flyer layout.

 http://www.nassauhobby.com/THE...EADY-TO-RUN-SET.html

http://www.nassauhobby.com/THE...S-BAGGAGE-CAR-S.html

http://www.nassauhobby.com/THE...ANDONED-TOY-CAR.html

So far by the responses, it appears the baggage steps on the observation is a chronic issue.  I doubt the assembly workers assemble one train at a time, but rather one type of car at a time. 

The assembly workers for the observations and baggage cars were probably issued the wrong underframes in their stock bins.

As long as you've ordered the baggage car, it should be a simple matter to swap the underfame with the observation.

Rusty

Both my Baggage and Observation cars have the same metal frame.  You know the steps at the end of the observation car are part of the plastic shell so the there isn't really much of an issue with me.  If the metal ones on the frame were an issue I could just take them off. 

Yes, it's the metal steps that are aligned with the baggage doors that are the "problem".  They're not that noticeable, but once noticed, it's aggravating.  I could have lived with it, but luckily my baggage car DIDN'T have steps, so a swap was possible in my case.  Others may not have that option. 

And the steps on the ends of the cars are part of a small insert that includes the inner vestibule door, the floor and steps.  That way, each car can get the proper style of steps.  The baggage car gets straight steps and others get the slanted ones.  Very clever design.  I think old A.C. would approve.  I've taken these cars apart to their basic components.  I can't help it.  

And yes, the metal baggage style steps can be removed if one goes that route. 

Sorry for opening the proverbial can of worms with these posts, but getting something we've all been waiting for since the announcement so long ago, and then getting a product that seems rushed into production is aggravating. 

The local S club (Southeastern Michigan S Gaugers) will be hosting the 2016 National Convention, August 10-14.  I plan on bringing my PE set to run on the club's layout and will have a small kid friendly layout somewhere at the convention site.  Look for me, and I'll be glad to finally put a face to all the people I've "met" online.

Jerry,

     I am very sorry that you received this set that ended up having so many defects. I, too, Have received sets from Lionel that had defects. I too treat them as a challenge to fix the problems so that I could understand just how could this happen. Back in the days of the A C Gilbert company I never received a set of my own that was bad. This was because of the lack of the Internet and Social Media. Today we can write, call or view on the internet about the great or the bad things that happen to our train purchases.

     WE need to contact Lionel or MTH and return the merchandise to the company and see if they can't repair the problem now and then ask the manufacturing company why is this still happening. Back when everything was made here there were more ways to improve on our assembly or manufacturing to resolve these problems fast but then we had clout

now  China holds the only means to rectify these problems.

     When I look at the bases I see the four bases are all the same. The baggage car requires all the end steps to be removed and the door steps to be riveted per/drawing. The observation does not require the end steps to be removed but the end platform needs to be riveted in place. In production plant, is a person delivers the assembled parts to the final assembly station and the cars are put together. Then they are sent for inspection and packaging. Possibly there wasn't enough regular bases to place and rivet the platform on the end so a substitution of the baggage floors were issued and the platforms were added, installed and packaged. I say this because all the sets I have seen so far the baggage steps have been installed on the Observation cars and I have only seen 2 of the American Flyer Chief Polar Express Sets so far. Mine has not been shipped yet so I will post how mine is when I checked it out. I have checked the other sets of Clearstory Roof passenger cars Made by Lionel. They are all made correctly. So The Question is Why Did China change the standards now when they have done this assembly many times before? I feel that we should do as Bill has said, don't be so critical at this stage but inform Lionel of the problem and hope they take care of it now and in the future.

Bill,

     I have been reading your comments and I like what you are saying. This isn't a fully loaded train engine and set but it is in the American Flyer Tradition both in scale and cost. I want to believe that Gilbert if he would have built a Berkshire Locomotive he would have made it a top of the line as the 0-8-0 Yard Goat, NYC Hudson, and The FEF Northern with added handrails and other add on items but yes we are not dealing with Gilbert but Lionel.Thank you Gentlemen of Lionel for producing the Berkshire and the polar express we ask only you manage to fix the problems which have cause a low acceptance of these products. 

Yours Truly

Donald Payer

With my PE set scheduled for delivery this week and anxious to run it asap, I first have questions for those who've already received their set:

1.) Did locomotive come already greased and oiled?

2.) If not, what parts of the engine did you grease? Where and what lubricant did you use? 3.) Did you also oil the engine, tender, and the cars? What and where did you oil it and          what oil did you use?

Thanks for the input.

OGG,

The instruction manual doesn't specify oiling before use, but I did anyway.  A VERY small drop of oil in the bearings of the drivers and any other wheels that are set in a metal bearing.  The cars have a plastic insert bearing, so I used a plastic compatible oil on them.  Maybe I shouldn't have, but I also used an extremely small amount of oil on the valve gear assembly too.  The key word here is use as little oil as possible. 

The manual also specifies oiling after 25 hours of running and points out the areas to be lubricated.

You guys are laughable. You complain and complain   but accept delivery and live with problems or repair defects yourself. Why should Lionel fix things when you accept the status quo

Herb Wasserman

I did not mean to sound unsympathetic. I merely meant, why aren't people returning

defective products to Lionel

Can we combine the three threads on what is really the same topic???

I am participating in all three and this is getting redundant when it does not need to. 

Ben. 

Herb,

I'm glad you clarified your posting.  At first it sounded a bit condescending and calling us "laughable" didn't sit will with me.  As Mark said, to us with problems, it's not laughable. 

Sending things back for some of us, although an option, isn't what we do unless a serious problem arises.  Accepting the status quo also isn't what we're doing.  Outside of sending things back, most of us prefer to fix the minor stuff, it's just easier in the long run.  This doesn't mean that Lionel won't hear about it.  My problems are minor compared with a full break down of the locomotive.  It's just that the sum of the minor ones I have is very aggravating.  And right now everything wrong is corrected but the light bleed issue.  That's pending.  And as posted in the last part of this topic, there isn't a lot that Lionel will do without any extra parts.  Is it because the production is in China?  Even it it is, why are no extra parts made?  I guess production nowadays means that they eliminate making extra parts to keeps costs down due to the tight profit margin.

The set has the potential to give S a good boost, but more thought and effort could have been put into the whole thing.  For those who are not into fixing minor things, it would sour any new people who are getting into S.  Not good for our scale. 

At any rate, at the least I will be sending them a message to their site's feedback page.  If that will do any good, remains to be seen. 

And Ben, to keep the threads on one page, and keep the griping down, I'll not be posting any more about my Polar Express set.  If anybody needs or wants help, I'm more than happy to lend any expertise I have to a fellow S gauger.  See you in person at the 2016 convention!

WWW.PATSTRAINS.COM Has the American Flyer Polar Express sets in stock now and shipping.

http://www.patstrains.com/View...Details=View+Details

The Polar Express™ FlyerChief Ready-to-Run Set

ZOOM

The Polar Express™ FlyerChief Ready-to-Run Set Coming 2014 American Flyer Ready-to-Run FlyerChief Train Set! Already a cornerstone of Christmas family tradition, The Polar Express™ movie celebrates its 10th Anniversary in 2014 with the FlyerChief Remote Control System. A newly-tooled American Flyer S-Gauge Polar Express Berkshire with dramatized pilot pulls three illuminated Polar Express Passenger cars. The S Gauge Polar Express Set comes ready-to-run out of the box, including a powerful transformer and all the track you need to get things started. Operate the Polar Express under your tree every Christmas for generations to come, or leave it up all year to enjoy continuous fun, excitement and railroading magic! Operating your trains has never been easier! • Total control - The “throttle” rotates to increase and decrease speed in both forward and reverse. • Full speed ahead - The red light at the top of the remote is a speed indicator; steady when in neutral and blinking faster as it accelerates. • Long range reception - Even at a distance of 60 feet or from another room, • Special “Sleep” feature - Helps prolong the life of your three AAA batteries. • Multiple frequencies available, so multiple engines can run on the same layout at the same time Realistic sounds! • Realistic steam chuff sounds are in-sync with steam engine’s speed • High quality speaker housed in the tender • Three sound buttons on the remote to control bell, whistle/horn and customized sounds or announcements Multi-System Operation! • FlyerChief Remote Control locomotives can run on any LEGACY, TMCC, or conventional transformer layout as long as 18 volts of power is being supplied to the track. • Families can run their locomotives at the same time and on the same track! At 18 volts -- Mom or Dad’s LEGACY/TMCC engine can be controlled with the CAB-1 or CAB-2 Remote Controller while the junior engineer commands the FlyerChief remote locomotive with his or her very own remote controller. Features Set Includes: All-new 2-8-4 Berkshire steam locomotive and tender Coach Car Hot Chocolate Diner Car Observation Car Three straight American Flyer FasTrack sections, twelve American Flyer FasTrack R20 curve sections, and one American Flyer FasTrack terminal section 36-W 18VDC Wall-Pack Power Supply FlyerChief remote control Anniversary Golden Ticket Santa's Bell Locomotive Features: Forward, neutral, and reverse operation Die-cast metal locomotive body and frame Durable plastic tender shell and durable plastic tender trucks Railsounds® RC sound system with steam chuffing while in motion. Realistic background sounds, whistle and bell all triggered by remote Operating headlight Operating coupler on rear of tender Fan-driven smoke unit Powerful maintenance-free motor Two traction tires for added 'grip' Large "Polar" pilot and headlight lens shield Passenger Cars Feature: Interior illumination Operating couplers on front and rear Decorated drumhead and rounded viewing platform on Observation Car Silhouettes in windows Underbody detail Simulated snow on roof Remote Features: Forward and reverse speed control knob Three buttons for whistle sound, bell, and special freight/crew announcements Requires three AAA alkaline batteries (not included) Road Number: 1225 Gauge: American Flyer/S Gauge Dimensions: Set Length: Approx. 50” Minimum Curve: S-36 Stock Number: 6-49632 Extra Shipping: Yes [1] Gauge: S Gauge Manufacturer: Lionel American Flyer Product Type: Sets Price: $298.99 Availability: In Stock

Mark, That's great news!  It's good to hear that you got it resolved so painlessly and quickly.  Looks like the Banloflyer household will enjoy a nice working PE set for the holidays!

Mike A.

I can tell you that Patrick's Trains offers the best customer service in the industry with a personal touch.

Thanks

Pat

WWW.PATSTRAINS.COM

The Polar Express™ FlyerChief Ready-to-Run Set http://www.patstrains.com/View...Details=View+Details

ZOOM

The Polar Express™ FlyerChief Ready-to-Run Set Coming 2014 American Flyer Ready-to-Run FlyerChief Train Set! Already a cornerstone of Christmas family tradition, The Polar Express™ movie celebrates its 10th Anniversary in 2014 with the FlyerChief Remote Control System. A newly-tooled American Flyer S-Gauge Polar Express Berkshire with dramatized pilot pulls three illuminated Polar Express Passenger cars. The S Gauge Polar Express Set comes ready-to-run out of the box, including a powerful transformer and all the track you need to get things started. Operate the Polar Express under your tree every Christmas for generations to come, or leave it up all year to enjoy continuous fun, excitement and railroading magic! Operating your trains has never been easier! • Total control - The “throttle” rotates to increase and decrease speed in both forward and reverse. • Full speed ahead - The red light at the top of the remote is a speed indicator; steady when in neutral and blinking faster as it accelerates. • Long range reception - Even at a distance of 60 feet or from another room, • Special “Sleep” feature - Helps prolong the life of your three AAA batteries. • Multiple frequencies available, so multiple engines can run on the same layout at the same time Realistic sounds! • Realistic steam chuff sounds are in-sync with steam engine’s speed • High quality speaker housed in the tender • Three sound buttons on the remote to control bell, whistle/horn and customized sounds or announcements Multi-System Operation! • FlyerChief Remote Control locomotives can run on any LEGACY, TMCC, or conventional transformer layout as long as 18 volts of power is being supplied to the track. • Families can run their locomotives at the same time and on the same track! At 18 volts -- Mom or Dad’s LEGACY/TMCC engine can be controlled with the CAB-1 or CAB-2 Remote Controller while the junior engineer commands the FlyerChief remote locomotive with his or her very own remote controller. Features Set Includes: All-new 2-8-4 Berkshire steam locomotive and tender Coach Car Hot Chocolate Diner Car Observation Car Three straight American Flyer FasTrack sections, twelve American Flyer FasTrack R20 curve sections, and one American Flyer FasTrack terminal section 36-W 18VDC Wall-Pack Power Supply FlyerChief remote control Anniversary Golden Ticket Santa's Bell Locomotive Features: Forward, neutral, and reverse operation Die-cast metal locomotive body and frame Durable plastic tender shell and durable plastic tender trucks Railsounds® RC sound system with steam chuffing while in motion. Realistic background sounds, whistle and bell all triggered by remote Operating headlight Operating coupler on rear of tender Fan-driven smoke unit Powerful maintenance-free motor Two traction tires for added 'grip' Large "Polar" pilot and headlight lens shield Passenger Cars Feature: Interior illumination Operating couplers on front and rear Decorated drumhead and rounded viewing platform on Observation Car Silhouettes in windows Underbody detail Simulated snow on roof Remote Features: Forward and reverse speed control knob Three buttons for whistle sound, bell, and special freight/crew announcements Requires three AAA alkaline batteries (not included) Road Number: 1225 Gauge: American Flyer/S Gauge Dimensions: Set Length: Approx. 50” Minimum Curve: S-36 Stock Number: 6-49632 Extra Shipping: Yes [1] Gauge: S Gauge Manufacturer: Lionel American Flyer Product Type: Sets Price: $298.99 Availability: In Stock

FREE Shipping everyday on ANY order over 200.00! 

Check out our large inventory of AF at nassauhobby.com! 

Do you guys have the replacement power supply to replace any in these sets that are defective?  Charles Ro has them and is sending them out to replace the bad ones in the sets they sold..

The new power packs are coming from Lionel and will be given out with all A.F. Polar Sets. We just got off the phone with Lionel Customer service and have confirmed it. If you have purchased a set from us call us and we will get this out to you as soon as they come into stock.

Thanks

Pat

PATRICK'S TRAINS

WWW.PATSTRAINS.COM

304-232-0714

E-MAIL PATSTRAINS@AOL.COM

Patrick:

You should have received this from Lionel as it was sent to dealers I know.

Roundhouse Bill, I also got that e-mail. I don't know who Pat is talking to at Lionel but according to them(and I have not had one single problem with any of the sets we sold) there is NO replacement transformer program!