Well, time for conversation about the American Flyer in the catalog that was released today online. http://catalogs.lionel.com/19bb/

I was amazed at all of the new tooling for O and none for S.  I think we have slid further down the line.  

The Pensy set for a work/crash train is interesting and I have Pensy friends that will snatch that up and all the extra cars.

The new freight trucks for the Cylindrical Hoppers is the only new feature for Flyer.  I wonder why only on those freight cars?

Overall I am underwhelmed as I was hoping for some type of new locomotive in FlyerChief as in this mode the price is less.  

 

Original Post

Bill,

Ditto, except I was hoping in for a steamer with Flyer Chief and BlueTooth.     Oh well, at least so far we have the Berks.  How's that song go, "Anticipation, is keeping me...".

Dave

Dave

S happens

TCA, NASG, ACSG W&OD

x-Chief Wrench & Bottle-washer of Precision Flyer Repairs 

I am finally going to order an SD70ACe, the 8321 UP. Of course I will also order the Christmas boxcar. No new S gauge engines, so nothing else to buy.

I am wondering if the electronics in the 6-83519 Sensor Car will fit inside an S gauge boxcar. If so I may buy a couple for the S gauge engines that do not have the IR included so I can also use those engines with my sensor tracks.

Tom

I did a high speed scan of the Flyer stuff in the catalog and have a couple of observations/questions (beyond not finding anything I am desperate to buy  - though I think there is Berk somewhere in my future).  First, speaking of locos, I note that for both the Berks and the SD70s, the minimum track curve is "S36" while for the GP7s its "R20" (except for the Pennsy work train GP7, where its "S36"...!).  I think I know what "R20" means (Fastrack seems to come in two flavors, R20 and R27 - which is the same as the old Flyer track radii) - so, I'll bite - what's "S36" (I've seen that designation before, so its not new to this catalog).

Does anyone know what the mapping is for FlyerChief or (Flyer) Legacy to Lionchief or the Legacy offered for O-scale?  The second-to-last page of the catalog (inside back cover) has a table of control systems - LionChief, LionChief plus, LionChief plus 2.0 and Legacy - and their various features.  There is no explicit mention of the Flyer control systems - is FlyerChief equivalent to LC plus or LC plus 2.0 or ??.  I note that the bluetooth feature is checked for all four of these systems - so does that mean, for example, that one can use BT to control the legacy equipped (Flyer) SD70s?  The BT logo is shown on all the Flyer pages advertising the various locos (and train sets) EXCEPT for the SD70...  It appears - one has to read the descriptions carefully - that the FC controllers are included with the Berks and for the two trains sets - Polar Express and the Pennsy work train - they say so explicitly but for the GP7s it isn't clear at all.

It would certainly seem that Lionel is migrating toward BT and their control app for iOS and Android, which probably makes sense since one can 'easily' build-in a lot of control features/buttons, etc. in Silico that are more difficult  on a 'mechanical' controller.  Besides, even us - uh - old farts are finding that its hard to not have your smart phone within reach - even if its to settle arguments like who first performed 'Fever' (not Peggy Lee).

Lastly, speaking of tables - you will see that for a mere $900, you can have an official, 86 x 58 inch Lionel train table (p. 253) - man, that's a lotta plywood or foam core ...

- Rich

richs09 posted:

Does anyone know what the mapping is for FlyerChief or (Flyer) Legacy to Lionchief or the Legacy offered for O-scale?  The second-to-last page of the catalog (inside back cover) has a table of control systems - LionChief, LionChief plus, LionChief plus 2.0 and Legacy - and their various features.  There is no explicit mention of the Flyer control systems - is FlyerChief equivalent to LC plus or LC plus 2.0 or ??.  I note that the bluetooth feature is checked for all four of these systems - so does that mean, for example, that one can use BT to control the legacy equipped (Flyer) SD70s? 

FlyerChief is equivalent to LionChief Plus with the fan-driven smoke, electrocouplers, etc. The only exception so far is the 0-6-0 which is equivalent to a LionChief engine - no smoke or electrocouplers.

Flyer Legacy locos do not have Bluetooth. It says so on their respective pages.

 

Dave Olson

Director of Engineering

Lionel LLC

Dave - thanks much for your quick reply - so my summary of what you said is

1) FC is currently equivalent to LC+ (but not LC+ 2.0) - with the docksider 0-6-0 exception as noted (I happen to have handy a print version of the AF 2017 and see that it doesn't have smoke at all...) and

2) Flyer legacy is not a 1 to 1 match with O-scale legacy - lack of bluetooth, anything else?  Not to quibble, but I don't see anything in the 2019 writeup about the SD70s - or elsewhere in the Flyer portion of the catalog - that says they aren't BT capable (only by lack of the logo or explicit mention...).

Do you happen to know which controller - if any - the various FC/BT locos come with (Berks, Geeps, etc.)?

again, thanks

Rich

richs09 posted:

  I think I know what "R20" means (Fastrack seems to come in two flavors, R20 and R27 - which is the same as the old Flyer track radii) - so, I'll bite - what's "S36" (I've seen that designation before, so its not new to this catalog).


- Rich

S36: The typo that refuses to die...

Rusty

Actually, the thing that makes FlyerChief similar to LionChief Plus is the fact the locomotive can be switched to conventional control or to use the assigned remote. 

Regular LionChief (used O gauge in the starter sets) can only be run with the assigned remote.  No conventional operation.

Rustyu

Roundhouse Bill posted:

The new freight trucks for the Cylindrical Hoppers is the only new feature for Flyer.  I wonder why only on those freight cars?

 

 

This is why: TOO HIGH (BN on the right)

LNL CH 031614 scale-hr 1

Corrected using AM HiRail trucks and SHS couplers.  This is what the new trucks should do.

LNL CH 032314 scale-hr2

Rusty

 

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Rusty - I think Lionel has 'fessed up about their truck problems on the cylindrical hoppers:

"Now back in the [AF] lineup, Lionel's first S Scale freight car returns with an improved truck design that reduces ride height and simplifies conversion to scale wheels and couplers!"  (p. 216)

I also saw this on eBay (from Trainz):  Lionel part number 6-49081 pair of hi-rail 70-ton, roller bearing, sprung trucks w/AF couplers:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ameri...8:g:7skAAOSwKSlcOHq9

Are these replacements for the 'too tall' trucks?

- Rich

Bob Bubeck posted:

Hi Dave,

Will there eventually be  separate sale pairs of the new trucks offered for the cylindrical hoppers? It would be desirable to lower the hoppers we already own.

Bob

I believe that's the plan but it all depends on how well this new run of hoppers sells. If the orders are low, I'm not entirely sure.

I'm awaiting samples of the new truck design, so nothing is out there yet.

 

AmFlyer posted:

Regarding your question 2, pending a reply from Dave, the Flyer Legacy engines do not have Odyssey II speed control. The exception was the Flyer 4014 BigBoy which had Odyssey.

Flyer Legacy does have speed control. It just cannot do a Legacy lash-up with engines of different types. I.E. you would probably have issues running a SD70 with a Challenger. But two SD70s or two Challengers would lash-up just fine.

Also note that Flyer Legacy cannot support Bluetooth. The Flyer Legacy board isn't capable.

Dave Olson

Director of Engineering

Lionel LLC

Odyssey was in the AF 4014 Big Boy but followed by AF Speed in subsequent AF Legacy engines like the AF Challengers, and most recently listed simply as Constant speed control in the description of FlyerChief Berks, and while I've been told FC Baldwins and Geeps have it there's no mention to that affect in their descriptions.  I think it's a great and important feature that should never be missed among things listed for an engine - assuming of course it has it.  

Dave

S happens

TCA, NASG, ACSG W&OD

x-Chief Wrench & Bottle-washer of Precision Flyer Repairs 

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Getting back to the contents of the 2019 catalog...

Overall like 2018 v1 & v2, I think it once again has a pretty good selection, particularly for the Flyer Folks.  Even though I've backed off from buying "traditional" Flyer, I'm intrigued by the TOFC cars, especially with the use of Hennis and Mason-Dixon trailers.  A nice touch.

I also find the Atlantic Coast Line GP7 tugging at my wallet, not sure who's going to win that tug-o-war yet.  Might be nice to have a FlyerChief loco I can call my own.  The aquarium car is also a possibility, once I get over the yellow roof and the bubbles painted on the side.  I guess that's what airbrushes are for...

My need for SD70's is satisfied, so I'm passing on those.

But for now, I'm in for a couple of cylindrical hoppers, which of course will be scalified.

Rusty

I just enjoy looking at the new trains in all of the Lionel catalog. 

One thing I noticed was that the LionChief Plus 2.0 engines now can use TMCC and Legacy as well as the hand held unit and phone app.  

What an interesting option if future Flyer engines could to this too.  It would mean the Legacy preferred people could enjoy FlyerChief engines. 

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