Guys, if you read the catalog description it never said the backup light on the tender or figures in the cab. (Page 4 of catalog) It did say their would be an Electrocoupler. i agree the button on the FlyerChief for that is hard to make operate. It needs a separate button.
Are any of you with more than one Berk going to order the hand controller that lets you run three Berks with the same controller? I think it is labeled for LionChief.
Roundhouse Bill: Just to re-iterate the instruction manual directions for the electro-coupler operation - "press the coupler button twice WITHIN one second" to fire the coupler. Mine works as advertised when following those directions. I think a lot of new owners have glossed over that new detail.....
D&H 65 - I am glad you wrote this again for me and all to see.
Thanks
richabr posted:The Flyerchief control is pretty much idiot proof
Entering the yard.
Stopping for a drink at a recently built water tower.
Finally got to some recent York purchases.
Companionship.
Now that winters here, back to layout work.
Rich
Rich what an impressive layout! Not being an S guy what track do you use ? Is there a track plan somewhere?
I also notice that you kept the AF lobster claw couplers so would your layout be called S Hi-Rail?
As for the quality control issues I am reading with some of the Flyer Chief engines I hope Lionel is reading this thread and rectifying the necessary issues with this and future engines.
Hi Rusty,
I did not mean to insinuate that if you have a problem that you shouldn't report it, just don't go crazy about it bad mouthing the company without giving them a chance to remedy the situation, remember everything today has a shake down period.
Most probably Lionel's supplier shipped the product first, then the spare parts will follow. I was told by Hennings that the replacement tires were shipping shortly, which confirms the theory. Someone also said they were coming from a new factory (China? USA?), again the dreaded learning curve.
Also, my PE Berk does have a backup light in the tender, and the PE is the cheapened version.
Yes, I have had issues with the wires on the passenger cars, but that is a 5 minute solder job, no big deal, although it is a pain.
Francine
BTW, Lionel obtains its spare parts by disassembling assembled units. Strange, but true. As a consequence, someone at Circle L has to first obtain the extra engines and physically take them apart, which results in the lag time between the initial sales of a piece and the availability of parts. Sincerely hope that all who purchased the Berks gain much enjoyment from their new locos. Personally, I am glad to have passed on these. I am holding out for a reasonably upscale full-featured Legacy version.
Have fun!
Bob
Bob Bubeck posted:Personally, I am glad to have passed on these. I am holding out for a reasonably upscale full-featured Legacy version.
Have fun!
Bob
I think it's going to be a long wait, Bob...
Depends on which way the weather-vane is pointing at corporate.
Every time it points "S" for a brief period of time, it seems to get blown in another direction shortly thereafter.
Rusty
Bob Bubeck posted:BTW, Lionel obtains its spare parts by disassembling assembled units. Strange, but true. As a consequence, someone at Circle L has to first obtain the extra engines and physically take them apart, which results in the lag time between the initial sales of a piece and the availability of parts. Sincerely hope that all who purchased the Berks gain much enjoyment from their new locos. Personally, I am glad to have passed on these. I am holding out for a reasonably upscale full-featured Legacy version.
Have fun!
Bob
What a messed up way to run a business. Can you imagine if the auto manufacturers did this?
Yugo did.
I will say that on my experience in buying Lionel s gauge since they started it back up in the late 70s and early 80s I have had mostly positive responses. And I can say this with many years of experience as a train repairman and collector
RoyBoy posted:Engineer Fred posted:
Sharing a YouTube Video to go along with Ray's Comments in previous post.
Testing the Lionel S Gauge American Flyer Berkshires On Wayne's Plywood Central Railroad 01-02-2016
Very Happy With My Berkshires.
Fred
I like the look of that track. What brand is it?
Roy,
It looks like SHS flex to me, however I don't know what kind of roadbed the mainline is on.
Tom Stoltz
in Maine
Rusty Traque posted:Bob Bubeck posted:Personally, I am glad to have passed on these. I am holding out for a reasonably upscale full-featured Legacy version.
Have fun!
Bob
I think it's going to be a long wait, Bob...
Depends on which way the weather-vane is pointing at corporate.
Rusty
So be it.
We have lots of other trains to run. In the meantime, one can continue to remind Circle L that some of us want a more upscale Berk.
Bob
Tom Stoltz posted:RoyBoy posted:Engineer Fred posted:
Sharing a YouTube Video to go along with Ray's Comments in previous post.
Testing the Lionel S Gauge American Flyer Berkshires On Wayne's Plywood Central Railroad 01-02-2016
Very Happy With My Berkshires.
Fred
I like the look of that track. What brand is it?
Roy,
It looks like SHS flex to me, however I don't know what kind of roadbed the mainline is on.
Tom Stoltz
in Maine
Tom you are correct, It is all S Helper code 125 Flex track . MTH is now making and selling the code 125 Flex Track. This is a temporary layout to run trains on, until the main layout is finished. Bench work will go around Wayne's entire basement (outside wall) for the main layout. He is using all code 125 flex track.
Fred.
George
The track is American Models both sectional and flex. Most of the larger radius turns are flex. Being unfamiliar with any track planning software a track plan is lacking at this time until I can figure out how to scan a plan drawing. In general is in the shape of a "J". With the couplers and hi rail flanges I would call it hi rail. No plan for weathering on locos or cars but I try to make the landscape and buildings as real as possible.
Rich
Tom Stoltz posted:Roy,
It looks like SHS flex to me, however I don't know what kind of roadbed the mainline is on.
Tom Stoltz
in Maine
I'm taking a guess here but it looks like strips of Berber carpet or something similar.
Check out 1:35 in the video and it looks like the strips are the same as the carpet in the room where the layout is located.
Remember...this is just a guess!
Mark
Mallard4468 posted:What a messed up way to run a business. Can you imagine if the auto manufacturers did this?
This is a HUGE "Apples and Oranges" comparison if there ever was one.
The model train manufacturers make a very limited run of a very specific model locomotive that sells during a limited period of time to a very small market. There is very little demand for spare parts and very little continuity from one model to another with regard to the inventory of those spare parts. The manufactures make very little if any profit selling spare parts.
The automobile manufacturers make a virtually unlimited run of a car model with only minor changes from year to year. That car sells year-round to a huge mass market. Spare parts are an on-going and profitable business with a great deal of demand and a lot of continuity from year to year.
There is absolutely no comparison between an auto manufacturer and a model train maker. It's a totally invalid argument.
Maybe I'm missing something. I have a large inventory of Lionel s gauge trains. Have had some issues over time. Lionel has either fixed my problems or offered a complete refund. As for a lot of the complaints of not having this or that on a pactiur engine could have been rectified by reading what the product included, not complaining what you think it should of had. This is a hobbie the money it cost for tooling engineering development and production of their product and to provide them in the timeframe we demand to a minority of the people who prefer S gauge Ian thankful for the to stick their neck out for the cost verses profit they make. Look around there is not many s gauge manafurtures out there. I have many friends who fish. Spend tons of money on a boat dockfees gas tackle bait and don't hear one negative thing when they come home with nothing but a sunburn. Enjoy the hobbie and don't keep bad mouthing a company who tries to supply us with things we keep asking for. If you don't like the products and you don't like to tinker with trains that sometimes need TLC don't buy them and soon we will have no resources for our hobbie. Notice I said hobbie
I was considering buying a Berk.......After reading these posts it is plain to see that the Berks have problems. I already have two problem children with the Challengers ....I don't want anymore headaches. My two Y's run like champs and my' Big Blue" N&W diesel runs great. Sorry Lionel.
richabr posted:George
The track is American Models both sectional and flex. Most of the larger radius turns are flex. Being unfamiliar with any track planning software a track plan is lacking at this time until I can figure out how to scan a plan drawing. In general is in the shape of a "J". With the couplers and hi rail flanges I would call it hi rail. No plan for weathering on locos or cars but I try to make the landscape and buildings as real as possible.
Rich
Hi Rich,
What type of control do use use? TMCC or DC? Do you purchase American models engines with DC and hirail wheels or AC powered? I like S just trying to figure what others use.
cocker posted:Maybe I'm missing something. I have a large inventory of Lionel s gauge trains. Have had some issues over time. Lionel has either fixed my problems or offered a complete refund. As for a lot of the complaints of not having this or that on a pactiur engine could have been rectified by reading what the product included, not complaining what you think it should of had. This is a hobbie the money it cost for tooling engineering development and production of their product and to provide them in the timeframe we demand to a minority of the people who prefer S gauge Ian thankful for the to stick their neck out for the cost verses profit they make.
And yet, somehow AM and the former SHS always managed to deliver on what they promised. The one thing I was confident of from both these companies is (or was) that what was in the box was what was cataloged and I could take it out of the box, put it on the track and operate with no problems. (Admittedly, I've heard over the past year some issues about cracked gears from some on older AM locomotives, but you can still get replacements.)
The problems and concerns expressed with Lionel products aren't limited to the Flyer line, all one has to do is cruise the 3-rail side of the forum.
Now, I've been fortunate that most of my Flyer has been trouble free (although I still have a couple of clunkers from the Khun era...) and the stuff that needed repair has been repaired to my satisfaction.
But, these kind of issues keep popping up, and that's what is worrisome.
Rusty
Rich & Cocker have it right.
S gauge/scale is a limited market. I thought of going "S" over 10 years ago because they were "Goldilocks Scale" (not to big, not to small), but the choice was very limited and the old stuff at shows were old Northerns that needed a ton of work, had no electronics, cost $200 plus and would have cost another $200 plus to make useable. I had to leave O scale, because the price (usually in the $1,000s) was beyond my reach and unless you have 2,500 square feet for a layout, impractical. HO was fun, but finicky and unless you are in a large club, DCC is very expensive and tech oriented.
I think Lionel did a great thing producing a steam engine that has great crawling speed, remote control, sound and is scale for mid $300. More people, like me, who were sitting on the fence will come over to S and enlarge the market, then with higher volume, manufacturers will be encouraged to offer more variety and features which would result in the need for spare/repo parts to grow which would enlarge the hobby further.
If the manufacturers can not make product that sells and is reasonably priced, either they won't make things, or the consumer won't buy. That's economics 101.
By the way, there is nothing stopping anyone from upgrading their model to their own taste level.
All I can say is, keep up the GREAT WORK LIONEL! Some of us appreciate your efforts in S.
Francine
I guess that I think Lionel has done pretty well over the years. The early era stuff after 1981 still runs and I have a lot of it. They have never been loads of work to keep running. The newer stuff with TMCC and Legacy electronics have caused me some problems, but Lionel has always come through in the end. My new Berk has a problem, but I expect it to come back from Lionel running fine.
I have some AM and no SHS products. Since I run and have lots of Gilbert Flyer I thought SHS stuff was pretty expensive and more scale than I wanted. AM stuff is reliable, but it just doesn't do much compared to current Flyonel and promised MTH. I wish AM would add modern electronics so his products did more.
I just hope we get as much new product from the current companies as they have been doing. Overall, they seem to want to serve the small market for S. My feeling is that S guys want more new product than will ever happen.
American models make a fine product SHS did too. Nobody made or makes a steam engine that is die-cast with the remote control for the money like Lionel. Keep making em lionel and I will buy them and if you continue to supply me with my needs I won't throw you under the bus when we have a problem. These Berks are new lets work it out. Beautiful engin and again I say. FOR THE MONEY
TrainWorld is reporting the Berks are sold out at Lionel and the distributors, so given what's been transpiring (today's $5 word) on this thread, there's two things that jump out at me:
1) The Berkshires are meeting a demand for a mid-priced, mid-range S gauge command control locomotive.
2) IF there is a higher than expected failure rate, there's probably going to be nothing left to exchange them with. So there's going to have to be either repair parts or (more likely) refunds available.
Rusty
Roundhouse Bill posted:AM stuff is reliable, but it just doesn't do much compared to current Flyonel and promised MTH. I wish AM would add modern electronics so his products did more.
I just hope we get as much new product from the current companies as they have been doing. Overall, they seem to want to serve the small market for S. My feeling is that S guys want more new product than will ever happen.
That all depends on point of view. I'm perfectly happy with American Models locomotives and what they can do (and I have them in AC, DC and DCC.)
As far as S guys wanting more than will ever happen, S Gaugers/Scalers are not unique in that area.
Rusty
Rusty,
If it's true the Berk's sold out and the PE sets and add ons as well, expect to see more products in the same price range from Lionel and MTH, where there's dollars, there's action. I guess I switched in time.
Francine
George,
I operate with Legacy control. With the use of powermasters I am able to also run any non command equipped AC power. All AM,SHS,Flyer,Lionel,other, non command operation locos will work. AC and hi rail wheels when purchased.
Rich
richabr posted:George,
I operate with Legacy control. With the use of powermasters I am able to also run any non command equipped AC power. All AM,SHS,Flyer,Lionel,other, non command operation locos will work. AC and hi rail wheels when purchased.
Rich
On the old Gilbert flyer stuff do you disconnect the speaker when using the powermaster? Is there a work around for the wavelength problem when using the old stuff?
I HOPE any S gauge endeavor is a success at this point, but these engines were build to order. So the fact that they are "sold out" should surprise no one. And I would think as far as "extra" numbers being ordered so retailers/dealer stock had some, there were not a lot more ordered outside of what we stepped up for originally. For all we know, the only reason these were done was to offset the tool cost for the PE set and the actual production number of the single sale berks could be pretty low. I would be surprised if the sales of the PE set paid for the tooling of the berk itself.
Ben
Greekchief
On any older Flyer with "sounds" I always disabled it even when running conventional. I thought the sounds, whether whistle or roar were terrible.
Rich
I don't think these Berks were built to order as that was not in the catalog. The expensive ones say Built to Order in the catalog. I think Lionel had dealers and distributor order what they though would sell. I think this engine just has pretty high demand from the market.
Actually Lionel told me there weren't as many of these first run PE sets sold as they expected.
Roundhouse Bill posted:
Actually Lionel told me there weren't as many of these first run PE sets sold as they expected.
Well, gee-whiz. They've only saturated the Polar Express market with O gauge models of various sizes over the past 10 years.
Rusty
billy jack posted:I was considering buying a Berk.......After reading these posts it is plain to see that the Berks have problems. I already have two problem children with the Challengers ....I don't want anymore headaches. My two Y's run like champs and my' Big Blue" N&W diesel runs great. Sorry Lionel.
Considering that the majority here like them and that they are selling out at the stores, that's kind of a odd judgement.
Mine arrived today. Runs fine, smokes fine, responds to remote. However, there seems to be a lot of static in the sound coming from the tender. Anyone else have this problem, and any quick fix?
OGR Webmaster posted:Mallard4468 posted:What a messed up way to run a business. Can you imagine if the auto manufacturers did this?
This is a HUGE "Apples and Oranges" comparison if there ever was one.
The model train manufacturers make a very limited run of a very specific model locomotive that sells during a limited period of time to a very small market. There is very little demand for spare parts and very little continuity from one model to another with regard to the inventory of those spare parts. The manufactures make very little if any profit selling spare parts.
The automobile manufacturers make a virtually unlimited run of a car model with only minor changes from year to year. That car sells year-round to a huge mass market. Spare parts are an on-going and profitable business with a great deal of demand and a lot of continuity from year to year.
There is absolutely no comparison between an auto manufacturer and a model train maker. It's a totally invalid argument.
Yeah, I guess you're right. It's not like anyone ever needs spare parts for these things. They're disposable, even though most of them cost more than I paid for my first 3 or 4 cars. Even the AF berk cost more than my first car in 1975.
No, I don't expect every part to be available forever. But the mfr should be able to fix a problem on a new item, and parts that frequently fail should be available for a long time. If this is the "new normal", I'll go back to my postwar stuff - the parts trade for them seems to be healthy.
This thread has gone WAY off track.
We're all done here.
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