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My FC-BT NS #661 Baldwin ran fine for awhile and then one day I took it off the shelf and it started making a gear gnashing or grinding noise from the rear truck.  Upon closer inspection I discovered that only one of the two machine screws on the front truck that hold the motor in place was snug and the other screw was completely loose.  The front truck ran fine.  The rear truck, however, had the same screw snug, but the other one was only half loose (see photos below, Ls=loose, Tt=tight or snug).  When I completely loosened that screw on the rear truck it too ran fine.  As I tightened that screw on either truck the gear noise came back.  In fact, the more I turned that screw in the slower the motor would run until if I snugged it down the motor would completely stop.  I contacted Dean at Lionel Customer Service.  He promptly inspected some engines and found the same thing to be true there as well.  Apparently the worm is not installed far enough onto the armature shaft for both screws to be snugged.  The work around he came up with, tested, and recommended is to install two 6408639114 (0.114" ID x 0.180" OD x .0145" THK) washers between the motor mount or base plate and the top of the truck.  Dean offered to do that on my engine or I could.  I appreciated his offer, but did the work on both trucks of my engine and now both motor screws can be snugged on both trucks and the engine runs fine -- arguably better than ever.  I installed the washers between the motor and the top surface of the motor mount or base plate (see photo below).  Apparently either location of the washers works and serves the same purpose (to raise the worm up a little bit).  Dean passed this discovery onto engineering and the issue will be addressed in future production runs.  

PLEASE don't go buy mass quantities of this washer just to hoard them or sell them back at a higher price to others that need them.  I've seen this done with other Lionel parts found to repair or enhance an engine's performance to the point they're suddenly out of stock.  That isn't fair to the rest of us in the hobby.  Thank you.

PS  I tried to gently nudge the worm a bit further onto the armature shaft with an arbor press, and then light hammer (with the opposite end of the shaft supported in both cases) and it did not budge, so I think two washers is the answer.  I also applied a bit of Lubriplate 630-AA multi-purpose lithium grease to both worms before re-installation.  They both looked pretty dry.  Runs well.  

Hope this helps, maybe with FC-BT GP7's as well as BLW's.    

Dave

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Last edited by Sgaugian
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Hi Dave,

Just read your post about 2-motor Baldwin FlyerChief truck screws.  You mention in last line that the same issue / fix might be relevant to one-motor FlyerChief GP-7s.  I had a truck screw issue with my new GP-7 ... photo and letter to Lionel in atch'd memo.  Not the same as yours, but it was another truck screw length issue.  I have been running my GP-7 without one truck screw because I can't find a suitable replacement ... so far, no engine anomalies.  See atch'd memo to Lionel.

I still need a longer replacement truck screw for my GP-7 ... see atch'd memo.  Lionel did not respond.  I also wrote to Charles Ro and received no response.  all I need is the right spec for a long replacement screw.

Regards,

Tom

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Last edited by S-Runner

Glad this helped.  Thanks for the washer sourcing tip.  I recall some earlier posts about GP7 gear sounds.  Maybe related to this.  One post I think said those 2 screws in theirs were only 3/16" long (ought to be 20mm)?  Not sure in that case how the motor ever even stayed put.   

Click here for AF FC Baldwin parts -- 

Click here for AF FC GP7 parts -- 

The screw used to secure the motor to the top of the motor mount or base plate is the same in both -- see photo attached.  Not sure about the screw used to hold the motor mount or base plate to the top of the truck - 2 in each truck as well.  Might be the same one.

3233326408048046 

SCREW / 2.5 mm x 20 mm x .45 thd

Dave

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  • SCREW / 2.5 mm x 20 mm x .45 thd
Last edited by Sgaugian

I'm glad you got it running but that's crazy.

First- best engineering practice would be to NOT have the worm gear pressed directly onto the motor shaft.  If the motor fails you'll have to find an exact replacement.  There should be a U-joint, etc., between the motor shaft and worm gear.  (Look at American Models or S-Helper Service for example.)

Second- why didn't Dean advise you (or offer himself) to press the worm gear into its proper place on the motor shaft?  Then the original screws could be fully tightened and there would be no need for the washer!

Dave,

Appreciate that you provided the GP-7 and Baldwin illustrated parts breakdowns and part number / photo of the 20mm motor attachment screw.  I now realize that my GP-7 screw issue is a non-issue.  I didn't realize before that the long 20 mm screws were used in the powered truck to screw into the motor.  The two 20 mm motor mount screws on my GP-7 powered truck are both screwed in and snug and the motor runs without noise/grinding ... good.  As for the non-powered truck (see photo in my pdf attachment above), since there is no motor to mount to, then there is nothing to screw a screw into either.  Apparently, Lionel provided the same motor mounting through-holes in the bottom of the unpowered truck as they did for the powered truck even though there is no motor on the unpowered truck for a 20 mm screw to attach to.  Using a flashlight, I can see through the unpowered truck screw through-holes and up to the underside of the motor mount plate and see the holes in it that the motor mount screws would go through to then screw into the motor mount threads.  So, for the unpowered GP-7 truck, the motor mount screw through-holes are non-functional. 

Anyway ... your added info enabled me to sort that out for my GP-7.  Thanks.

Regards,

Tom

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