@SteveH posted:

recently discovered this forum, and its friendly and knowledgeable members...

Welcome aboard!

Just keep moving and don't make any eye contact !

That Vertical Video one is a pet peeve of mine coming from an amateur photography background.

Jerry

UHOH!   Etiquette

Welcome to the O-Gauge forum, a wealth of knowledge and great place to make friends.  The fact that you actually read the terms of service puts you one up on a lot of the new members.  Most members here are pretty easy going , but there are a few who get their feathers ruffled easily. They usually mean well so I don’t let it bother me.

I think the most important rule is to post in the correct sub-forum. The most important unwritten rule is to post photos and video horizontally, not vertically. Since you already mentioned these in your original post, I would say you are in good shape.

@baltimoretrainworks posted:

Welcome aboard! Just keep moving and don't make any eye contact ! That Vertical Video one is a pet peeve of mine coming from an amateur photography background.

Jerry

Fixed it Jerry: I see you are top row-center, next to Robert and Mitch <g>

@SteveH posted:

Hi, I'm a relatively new forum member currently working on my next 9' x 19.5' conventional control 3 rail O-Gauge layout with my daughter. I have been model railroading on and off for a little over 40 years and recently discovered this forum, and its friendly and knowledgeable members.

Would it be possible to extract the pertinent information from these unwritten rules and condense them into one easy to find place on the site and also be sent to new members when they join? And If so, how would be the best way to compile this information in a way that would be useful to the moderators?

hmmm, I DO remember a quote from some group, long time ago, may I Respectfully insert it here: 'Great Idea, You are in charge".

Someone with a better background on such matter will help, I am sure. I am but a lowly 4x8-er comic-relief-minion. <s>

Uh Oh!  More rules.     And what, there are now  "unwritten rules"?

I see "Double Secret Probation" in my future!

(And, I have lost track.  Are we at war with Europia or Eurasia today?)

Mannyrock

Is this like the salad fork thing?

I’m guilty of misspelling words and using the occasional comma splice. It’s probably due to a combination of declining vision and use of an iPad.

We don't need no stinkin' rules!

@baltimoretrainworks posted:

...Vertical Video one is a pet peeve of mine coming from an amateur photography background.

AMEN!

Have you  seen this?

Unfortunately this #short thing on YouTube seems to be popularizing vertical videos.

Landscape / horizontal always preferred. Just saying.

Who are those hippies with guns?

To be honest I think everyone does a good job policing the forum and if something goes sideways Alan or the moderators are here to slap your hand and help get thing back on track! Like the old saying don't fix what isn't broken.

But if they are going to fix something maybe when one does a search they can show results in order of date posted! LOL Just sayin!

Another vote against vertical videos here, and not wishing to derail the OP's very laudable proposal.  But is there a technical reason for vertical videos?  Does it have something to do with smartphones?

The main reason people unintentionally end up with vertical videos taken with smart phones is that they hold the phone upright instead of horizontally when they start recording.  There may also be settings in the phone (depending on the OS) that interfere with this typically automatic orientation based on the phone's position at the time they start recording the video.

@West Side Joe posted:

Another vote against vertical videos here, and not wishing to derail the OP's very laudable proposal.  But is there a technical reason for vertical videos?  Does it have something to do with smartphones?

Try watching an episode of AFV tonite. With the pandemic, nearly every video is sent in from a smartphone and nearly every video is vertical. The show is almost unwatchable.

After you do it once you would "think"the average person could figure it out...but...

I have no idea what the controversy about vertical videos is about, "So for that reason, . . . I am out."

Mannyrock

Thanks for your welcome to the forum and suggestions.  To be clear, I'm not looking to establish new rules nor get anyone in "trouble".  I'm hoping for a condensed consensus of existing Suggestions that are easy to find and understand /hard to miss for anyone wishing to "play nice with others."  If you consider yourself a rebel, I respect that too.

So, the determining question may be for the Moderators to answer first:

Is this notion of a concise list of Suggestions doable and if so, what might I do to help?

I think there may already be something here that fills the bill.

It's called the Terms of Service, and it's always available at the "TOS" link in the blue menu bar at the top of the screen.

Rich, thank you for your replies.  You are correct to point out the TOS, which I also referenced in the original post.  What I'm proposing would be in addition to the existing TOS Guidelines.

I'm genuinely confused now.  I believe the forum runs pretty smoothly the way it is now, what is the drive to impose more rules?  Truthfully, I don't know about any "unwritten" rules, and I hope they never get written down!

My take on interacting on the forums is to keep what you're posting to what you would say to in person.  I think for the most part here on OGR, that is what happens.  

Please: Don't fix stuff that ain't broke!

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I'm genuinely confused now.  I believe the forum runs pretty smoothly the way it is now, what is the drive to impose more rules?  Truthfully, I don't know about any "unwritten" rules, and I hope they never get written down!

My take on interacting on the forums is to keep what you're posting to what you would say to in person.  I think for the most part here on OGR, that is what happens. 

Please: Don't fix stuff that ain't broke!

Man, do I agree with that!!!!      Otherwise, we would have, "If it ain't broke,,,,,,,,,,,,work on it until it is!".

after a while here, you learn to live with the various personalities of the members without taking offense.

John, sorry if you think I'm implying something is broken, I'm not.  This forum is great!  I'm simply looking to condense many of the great suggestions for its usage.  Using the example "My train broke how do I fix it" type of post lacking any meaningful detail about which you started a topic called "Clairvoyance and Problem Solving".  I think there are some great Suggestions in that thread.  There are other posts with great suggestions too which also aren't in the TOS Guidelines and may not be easy to discover for new members.

So just like our layouts, that aren't broke, we still keep working on them to make improvements.  That what I'm proposing, a compilation of Suggestions, not more rules.

SteveH - One other thing that's very helpful to the 'experts' on the Forum (ie. people that really are technically saavy) when Posters are looking for advice to resolve a technical issue is - whenever possible - including the manufacturer's product number either in the Heading or the first or second sentence of the original Post.

@SteveH posted:

John, sorry if you think I'm implying something is broken, I'm not.  This forum is great!  I'm simply looking to condense many of the great suggestions for its usage.  Using the example "My train broke how do I fix it" type of post lacking any meaningful detail about which you started a topic called "Clairvoyance and Problem Solving".  I think there are some great Suggestions in that thread.  There are other posts with great suggestions too which also aren't in the TOS Guidelines and may not be easy to discover for new members.

So just like our layouts, that aren't broke, we still keep working on them to make improvements.  That what I'm proposing, a compilation of Suggestions, not more rules.

FWIW, these suggestions have been posted countless times, I don't think posting them one more time is going to make a significant difference.  I don't think many new people wade through the mountains of sticky threads in every forum now, adding one to the list isn't going to make that happen, at least IMO.

I'm not saying you don't have a point, but I seriously doubt a posting about it is going to change anything.  I've moderated forums for many years, and I've had very limited success in a "magic" posting that clears up all the clouds and makes every posting clear as day.

Steve - with respect, I don't see the need for a more elaborate and detailed set of published rules, as you might with engineering, to figure out the forum. It's just an online place like millions of others, but nice. Cruise along as you have been, read the posts, reply as you see fit. That's all there is to it. On the other hand, I never read any of the rules already in place so a few more won't bother me. But why? I was on a jury once in New York City and the guy confessed to the crime. He wasn't browbeaten or coerced or anything, he just blurted out exactly what happened. Much to the dismay of his lawyer, naturally. When we, the jury, began deliberations, one juror said, well, I have a problem with this, he might not be guilty. The rest of us were like, huh? So that's how your post strikes me: huh? why?

@Mannyrock posted:

I have no idea what the controversy about vertical videos is about,

Jerry

@wb47 posted:

after a while here, you learn to live with the various personalities of the members without taking offense.

It used to be a lot worse. There were a few who while thankfully they seem to have fallen by the wayside could be counted on to throw out a comment that would just send the topic off on a dark path and get it locked or deleted. If someone posts pics of say zombies on their layout and you're not a fan of say zombies or fantasy things on a layout just ignore it and move on, no need to bash what they have done like some seem want to do (side note, my layout did have zombies in one corner and Minions and Batman and the Lost In Space robot B9 and a Tardis et al,  never got around to putting in a Stargate but there's still time!). And as for politics and religion just STEER A WIDE PATH AROUND THEM !

Jerry

John, I think you're right in pointing out that there is no such thing as a "magic" POST that would clear-up all issues.  Maybe there's another way besides a post, but without knowing the possible limitations of the forum framework, I don't know what exactly to suggest.

Trrentschler, again not rules, suggestions.  The difference: if you break rules there may be consequences.  Ignoring suggestions mostly results in annoying people who think the suggestion's recipient lacks common sense or social skills.  I'm not asking what I should do here on the forum, I'm trying to make it easier for those who might be interested in knowing what is generally accepted.

@baltimoretrainworks posted:

Welcome aboard!

Just keep moving and don't make any eye contact !

That Vertical Video one is a pet peeve of mine coming from an amateur photography background.

Jerry

I'm fourth cousins with one of those guys,, Jesse Woodson James

@SteveH posted:

lacks common sense or social skills.

You ain't been to York yet have you?

P.S. York is one of those trigger words here ! I've seen "My first time going to York what can I expect?" kind of posts just disintegrate into a bar argument.

Jerry

If I ever go to that unmentionable Y place, I'll be sure to stay away from the bars.

I appreciate and applaud all those that make and operate a layout, regardless of how simple or elaborate that it may be. Sharing an image or plan is really a nice thing for this forum. One’s choice of accessories, pattern, lighting, and etc is just the little extra that makes image that much more special. I for one am not going to critique ones choice of superheroes or long forgotten auto brands in the background. Put it out there and let’s all enjoy this fun. And let’s all just be nice,

@WRW posted:

Is this like the salad fork thing?

I’m guilty of misspelling words and using the occasional comma splice. It’s probably due to a combination of declining vision and use of an iPad.

oh man, now i gotta look THAT up. "hey Alexa, whats a comma splice"?. A comma splice, also called a run-on, occurs when a writer has connected two main clauses with a comma alone."

"Hey Alexa, what's a main clause?"

Gosh  SteveH,  you are one persistent guy!   :-)

Why the hard push for these "Suggestions"?    I think a large majority of folks have taken the position that they don't want them.

Mannyrock

I think a lot of it has been posted before and I didn't even know Emily Post was interested in trains.

Please do the following when asking for help with a problem (sage advice posted earlier by the late Marty Fitzhenry) | O Gauge Railroading On Line Forum (ogaugerr.com)

Your intentions are good, but you're over-thinking this. The bottom line (which my first reading of this full thread makes clear ) is the answer is basically "no." Stuff happens, and it works itself out in the natural order. No lists, no suggestions, no rules, other than the aforementioned TOS.

Btw, welcome to the forum.

Manny, thanks for your observations and question.  If the forum consensus truly is that the majority doesn't want these suggestions to be more than a bunch of old posts that few pay no attention to, then I will gladly drop it.

To answer your question: what you refer to as a hard push, I consider to be simply trying to answer the questions raised about this topic as they are asked.  My original reasons for making the suggestion are based on observations that many of the long time members have grown frustrated (based on their Posts, replies and/or lack thereof) with other posters who don't follow the generally accepted expectations, and that these expectations may not become clear to new members for a long time after joining the forum, if at all.  I've also noticed that at least half of the requests for help, rarely have enough useful information in the original post for someone else to actually help the requestor without asking a bunch of questions that are very similar from one instance to the next.

I don't care for heavy handed rules, I'm just hoping for a easy to find resource which concisely outlines some of the generally accepted expectations for posting.  If there are no further questions or interest, I will allow this Topic to fade away.

Richie C, Thanks for including the link to Marty's post, its another good one I discovered before starting this thread and is similar to one of the others I mentioned called Clairvoyance and Problem Solving.

Johnstrains, thank you for the welcome.  I won't disagree with you.

Yeah Steve, I believe Marty's list is akin to the Ten Commandments if you include the last paragraph which is not numbered.  Seriously though, I think it's a great guide for anyone contemplating posting something!

As a new forum member myself, I have picked up on many little things that I should do. I have posted once on a wiring problem and I was quickly given a solution that worked. Everybody on this forum is very helpful. Thanks!

Welcome @SteveH

I totally get why you suggested this, but given my experiences here, I don’t think it would help 99% of the time because most folks just don’t bother to read.  There is apparently a huge problem with posts going in the wrong forum despite a giant post at the top of the forum in all caps advising people about this.  That said there are a lot of big messages and warnings in all caps to dig through.

Personally, I’m all for a newbie posting guide, because written policies are better than unwritten ones.  But thats just the engineer in me talking.

@Mannyrock posted:

Uh Oh!  More rules.     And what, there are now  "unwritten rules"?

I see "Double Secret Probation" in my future!

(And, I have lost track.  Are we at war with Europia or Eurasia today?)

Mannyrock

Neither, it has always been with "Freedonia"!

Welcome aboard. Etiquette? Manners? Courtesy? Well, those go against every principle I stand for, but I'll try to be nice.

In my not-so-humble opinion, there's no such thing as a dumb question. There's just the dumb mistake you make because you didn't ask a question. Now that I've retired, bought a home and know where I'll have layout space I'm trying to settle in on a design and will be asking more questions myself.

Matt - Always seem to have something positive to bring to the table, thank you.

SteveH, you're over thinking this.  Like some previous poster said " don't do or say things you wouldn't in person and in front of a group". 

Everything else is pretty easy going.  There are no dumb questions and a lot of really smart experienced people on the forum.  Just wade on in.

And vertical videos are fine.

.

@aussteve posted:

And vertical videos are fine.

NO, NO THEY'RE NOT !  

Case in point, even when faced with the reality of the situation the "cameraman" still chooses to go vertical recording this scene....

At no point did he become cognizant he was only recording less than half the scene. 

(I actually found this clip looking for one of Fred getting laid out by Bam Bams train!)

Jerry

Well I guess we are in for a new rule here on OGR about taking videos.

@baltimoretrainworks posted:

NO, NO THEY'RE NOT !  

Not allowing vertical videos is like banning portrait mode in photography. I understand that viewing vertical videos on a horizontal screen is painful, but some social media platforms have made this commonplace and are actually designed around it.  Portrait mode is for... well, portraits, and some video content fits the style.  Things like testimonials come to mind.  It doesn’t make a lot of sense for train videos, but vertical displays are becoming more and more prevalent.

As long as all of the pertinent action is captured, who cares?

Well since we are on the subject, I agree with the "no clairvoyance posts" rag. Put something in the title to help us a little.

As for video, I prefer mine horizontal for trains and looking at on my computer. But I don't get my panties in a wad about it. Things change. There is a lot of vertical video shot with a phone whose final destination for viewing is a phone. I'm not sure people realize that most young people look at video almost exclusively on their phones. So we sound like clueless old farts if we get apoplectic about it.  I certainly have taken plenty of vertical video of my granddaughter. People are after all, vertical, and movies used to be almost square. 16:9 doesn't lend itself to the close up . Who knows, maybe one day TVs will all be vertical.

When I was a TV production designer I used a lot of vertical screens for which we had to make vertical content. As soon as plasmas came on the market and we didn't have to use those massive projection TVs, we said "Hey vertical!!' This of course was just background eye candy, but maybe we were ahead of our time.

All that notwithstanding, shoot your trains you post here horizontal.

@Will posted:

Who knows, maybe one day TVs will all be vertical.

As a broadcast engineer and designer...oh god no!

When I was a TV production designer I used a lot of vertical screens for which we had to make vertical content. As soon as plasmas came on the market and we didn't have to use those massive projection TVs, we said "Hey vertical!!' This of course was just background eye candy, but maybe we were ahead of our time.

I agree that for background displays with specialty graphics yes there is a place.  They do it all the time for WWE because of the ring apron, jumbo tron, and even ring post displays but we should never use it for viewing content.

All that notwithstanding, shoot your trains you post here horizontal.

Another suggestion is if you thing you have something that goes in the 3RS section...you probably don't and will be told so.  LOL!

@rplst8 posted:

Not allowing vertical videos is like banning portrait mode in photography.

As long as all of the pertinent action is captured, who cares?

No one is suggesting not allowing vertical that but most videographers do consider it sloppy, lazy and annoying. If you're going to do something at least do it so the viewing experience is remotely enjoyable. We're not talking about a once in a lifetime thing like Bigfoot or a UFO or a meteor where you just want to get it on film fast as you can.

Also...

You’re limited in what parts of the scene you can see and in smaller detail, and if someone is shaky with their shot it’s VERY hard to keep them in the frame. That causes people to tune out.

Instead of black bars, they letterbox it on the sides with a blurred color spectrum that matches what’s happening in the video. That causes people to tune out.

Sorry, but that’s effectively the same thing as black bars, only far more annoying. You can always turn yourphone sideways to see a bigger picture with more detail but the annoying blur box on desktop playback is forever.

And then there's nature.....

Jerry

The topic of this post has turned from forum etiquette to how bad verticle videos are

Hi Steve and welcome to our forum.  Aside from the TOS, every organization has certain unwritten  rules and procedures and the OGR Forum is no different.  I can guarantee that if you are here for any length of time you'll know what they are.  If you were ever in the military you know what I mean.  Anyway glad you're here and look forward to your posts.

@baltimoretrainworks posted:

No one is suggesting not allowing vertical that but most videographers do consider it sloppy, lazy and annoying. If you're going to do something at least do it so the viewing experience is remotely enjoyable. We're not talking about a once in a lifetime thing like Bigfoot or a UFO or a meteor where you just want to get it on film fast as you can.

Also...

You’re limited in what parts of the scene you can see and in smaller detail, and if someone is shaky with their shot it’s VERY hard to keep them in the frame. That causes people to tune out.

Instead of black bars, they letterbox it on the sides with a blurred color spectrum that matches what’s happening in the video. That causes people to tune out.

Sorry, but that’s effectively the same thing as black bars, only far more annoying. You can always turn yourphone sideways to see a bigger picture with more detail but the annoying blur box on desktop playback is forever.

And then there's nature.....

Jerry

Jerry, "I Do love a great power-point presentation in the morning" <salute> and I love the landscape videos the best...Lots of Layout to Seeeeeee

Captain Bogart.

Apparently, there ARE unwritten rules.

Break out the rat cages and head straps!

Mannyrock

Having been here since Week #1, I'll post a few things I've learned along the way:

1.  Thou Shalt Not "Lash Up".

2.  Thou Shalt Not ask: "How can I make black smoke?"

3.  Thou Shalt Not hyphenate PRR Steam.  It is NOT K-4, L-1, or B-6! (Thanks HW)

4.  Thou Shalt Not Try to Set The Record for Most Original Posts in a Day. (Robert Coniglio beat it)

5.  Thou Shalt Not Question a TOOG.

6.  Thou Shalt Consult the Manual and/or Dealer Before Complaining About a Product Here.

7.  Thou Shalt Not Use the Forum to Pick Up Men.  (They're either already taken, or have no money left for a date)

8.  Thou Shalt Not Promote Carcinogens to Clean Track.

9.  Thou Shalt TRY to Spell and Use Punctuation.  (Not a rule, but you'll get better results)

10.  Thou Shalt Not Post a Picture One Does Not Own. (It used to be a LOT more interesting when we could though...)

Jon

11.  Thou Shalt Not Crop Dust at Train Shows.

Jon

@KOOLjock1 posted:

Having been here since Week #1, I'll post a few things I've learned along the way:

2.  Thou Shalt Not ask: "How can I make black smoke?"

Or discuss using non smoke products or making your own in your basement.

6.  Thou Shalt Consult the Manual and/or Dealer Before Complaining About a Product Here.

Probably the one most often broken.

Jon

Good list but there are so many more...

How about...

Thou shalt not revive a seven year old thread only to add nothing new or to provide information that was already posted.

What is up with that, anyway? Happens all the time.

12. Thou shalt not answer questions directed to another forum member until that member has had an opportunity to answer.

13. Thou shalt not find fault in another member's efforts, since we are all in this for fun and relaxation, and not to see who is the best modeler on the planet.

@West Side Joe posted:

12. Thou shalt not answer questions directed to another forum member until that member has had an opportunity to answer.

I'm guilty of violating this quite often, but have never been reprimanded for it.  When someone asks a question, they probably expect an answer, but the member "addressed" by the question might not be back on the forum for hours or days.  After all, many here are still working, have other pursuits, or may be just too busy personally to be on the forum all the time.

So, if I think I know the answer (or have an opinion), I will provide it.  Of course, it always helps to be sure you know what you're talking about (I've screwed up here on occasion) before jumping in.

Chuck

And hopefully, lastly:  Please, PLEASE no "Does anyone know?" type questions.  Of course SOMEONE "knows", but the real point is, "I would like to know..............."!

How about, Thou shalt use the enter key to create paragraphs in long posts (makes it a whole lot easier to read).

Here's one...

Thou shall be respectful and kind to other forum members when they mistakenly post something in the wrong forum or "violate" these unwritten rules.  Rather than talk down to them, suggest the forum that would be more accurate.  Suggest respectfully when a post might not have enough information, or "violates" what you might think is a unwritten rule.  We all started out somewhere and probably had the same questions we might think is obvious now.  Shaming someone because they don't know does nothing for this forum.

The hobby is small enough without having potential, new, and old members alike not being able to enjoy themselves here and find the information and help they're looking for.  All this does is drive folks away.  Not everyone is internet savvy.

RESPECT.  Goes a long way to making this forum great.

@KOOLjock1 posted:

Having been here since Week #1, I'll post a few things I've learned along the way:

1.  Thou Shalt Not "Lash Up".  You can't stop me!!

2.  Thou Shalt Not ask: "How can I make black smoke?"  Ask away, but don't expect to like the answer

5.  Thou Shalt Not Question a TOOG.  Seriously I have no idea what that acronym is. 

8.  Thou Shalt Not Promote Carcinogens to Clean Track.  DO Not use simple green to clean fast-track. - the results are horrifying!

Jon

What is a TOOG? 

There have been some really good observations and suggestions in this discussion. Thanks to all who've contributed. If I may make another observation.

If you haven't already noticed from some of my other posts, I have a pretty dry sense of humor. With people who know me well, I often use sarcasm. But with people who don't know me well, I've found that using sarcasm often results in being taken literally at first, especially in written form when the recipient can't see my facial expression.

I've found that when writing to people who don't know me well, to avoid misunderstandings, it's better to either avoid sarcasm or make it really clear that I'm trying to be humorous.

@jhz563 posted:

What is a TOOG?

If my recollection is correct it stands for "The Other O Gauge" and is an outdated reference to fans of MTH.  I maybe wrong though.

Too funny KoolJock. Love the Coniglio reference (and quite accurate as well!). However, you left out a few:

• Thou shall take pity upon and be respectful towards those that use the other manufacturers inferior command control system (which you have never used and should have no real opinion on in any event)
• Thou Shall refrain from posting in all caps, unless of course you really do want to shout at someone, then see next edict -
• Thou shall refrain from shouting
• Thou shall refrain from engaging in all manufacturer wars, since these have been very bloody, resulting in the banishment of thousands of poster lives and costing countless dollars in wasted hours
• Thou shall refrain from calling yourself an "expert" in anything and demanding the final say in any discussion, since there are numerous people on this forum that absolutely know more than you, but are just too kind and civil to point it out.
• Thou shall not go bonkers when one of your posts that steps over the line  is deleted or edited by a moderator, remembering that their moderation has kept this place the BEST train forum on the internet for over 20 years and has prevented it from degrading into a complete mess like at all those other forums.

@MartyE posted:

If my recollection is correct it stands for "The Other O Gauge" and is an outdated reference to fans of MTH.  I maybe wrong though.

That sounds good.  I have been on the forum a while now, and TOOG was before my time here.  I always thought it was one of these two:

1) An old timer from the AOL days who showed resistance to new ideas, argued a lot, and did a lot of name calling.  This matches Jon's "Thou Shalt Not Question a TOOG."

or

2) The opposite, the new guys with a broader view of the O world and tried to make the forum less divisive.  This better matches "The Other O Gauge".

Whatever it meant, it is no longer applicable here.  Members of this forum do a great job in keeping thing civil and helping each other, even when they disagree.  The moderators also do a great job when someone temporarily forgets themself and shows a little too much emotion.

MartyE - Your 'respectful' comment reinforces what my mother used to say "If you don't have anything nice to say about something or someone, don't say anything."

"Don't go berserk or nuclear over minor criticisms. We are only talking about Toys here!"

I think the lack of respect is a problem on all social media platforms.  People can and do say a multitude of things to me online they would never say to my face.

@MichRR714 posted:

I think the lack of respect is a problem on all social media platforms.  People can and do say a multitude of things to me online they would never say to to my face.

True but I like to think we know better. Steve's observation on sarcasm is spot on as well.

The other thing it potentially affects is newbies or even those who just found us to shy away and not come back if they see we can't be respectful.

SteveH,

I agree with your concept and even have an idea how to implement it.  I signed up so long ago that I don't honestly remember the process, but I think you had to provide an e-mail address even if you chose to keep it private.  If so, why can't a "Suggestions to Make Your Experience Better" file and a "Terms of Service" file be e-mailed to the new member when sign-up is complete.  That serves the double duty of verifying the e-mail address and putting some useful info directly into the new member's hands.

Of course, we will never be able to "force" them to read any of it, but then nobody can argue that they didn't know something-or-other.  And, if or when there is a change in either document, all members should receive files with the revisions via e-mail.

By the way, only one suggestion should involve anything unrelated specifically to trains, something like "Be civil, stay on topic, and try not to repeat what you say over and over again."  (Feel free to add any other non-train related ideas you might have.  Train related suggestions might be:

1. If you're talking about a trackplan, include a picture or drawing of your concept(s), include the overall room dimensions, identify objects in the area that might interfere, and identify the type of track and/or switches you plan to use.

2. If you're talking about command control. identify the system(s) involved, the hardware you plan to use, and the version of software employed as well as what products (engines, sound cars, switches, accessories, etc.) will be used with it.

3. If talking about layout wiring, include a picture or drawing of your layout with some ideas of how you would like the layout to operate.

This list is not all-inclusive, by any means, and probably doesn't mention all the ideas listed earlier in this thread.  I'm just trying to suggest that your idea is not impractical and should be easily doable by the forum operator once we agree on what should go into the introductory e-mail as an attachment.  Ultimate decision, though, is up to the forum moderators.

Chuck

@jhz563 posted:

@KOOLjock1 posted:

Having been here since Week #1, I'll post a few things I've learned along the way:

1.  Thou Shalt Not "Lash Up".  You can't stop me!!

Yeah, why not?

@MichRR714 posted:

People can and do say a multitude of things to me online they would never say to to my face.

Generally, you are correct with this comment, but I've seen a lot of poor social skills at train shows and have heard people say things to people to their face you'd think they'd only type online. I've not generally seen this nearly so much in any other community.

I think this speaks to an appreciable percentage in the hobby that tend to be quite "Sheldon Cooper*"-ish and probably operate somewhere in the Autism spectrum. You only have to go to a big train show to see it in action.

Not going into specifics, I encountered someone who had seen one my magazine articles and actually came looking for me at a large train show (Mike, it's the one I ran into you at), telling me all the errors I'd made on my layout and how generally he would have done a "far better job" than I had. The 'corrections' he had for me were all quite incorrect (for example, he said the ET&WNC never had tank cars, and that the line had 'lots' of former D&RGW locos and rolling stock, most of which never got re-lettered) and then he launched into how I should just scrap the layout "for the sake of the hobby." His arrogance was only matched by his comical level of ignorance of the subject and his lack of social skills.

In short, the things people think someone would only post online. But he was saying it to me face (and well into my personal space, as I keep backing up and he'd match the move each time).

I just looked at him with the same look NCOs would give me when I was saying something stupid as an Army 2nd LT. I then asked that he not stand so close and made it really clear that the only thing preventing me from offering to meet him out back to give him an attitude adjustment he'd remember in his old age was his clear lack of faculties. I then walked away, leaving him to ponder what I'd just said.

* "The Big Bang Theory" show writers clearly weren't big fans of train people and the ravaged us generally for the run of the show, never missing the chance to make train/model train fans appears nuts, lacking in any social skills or pathetic overall. "Pathetic" and "Sad" were words actually used to describe us on a few episodes I remember, one I saw last night on syndication. I'm still a fan of the show regardless. Sadly, their depictions of train folk 100% meet those like them I've met over the years.

@p51 posted:

I think this speaks to an appreciable percentage in the hobby that tend to be quite "Sheldon Cooper*"-ish and probably operate somewhere in the Autism spectrum. You only have to go to a big train show to see it in action.

I think one of the reasons people end up like this is because they are teased and bullied incessantly as children.

I just looked at him with the same look NCOs would give me when I was saying something stupid as an Army 2nd LT. I then asked that he not stand so close and made it really clear that the only thing preventing me from offering to meet him out back to give him an attitude adjustment he'd remember in his old age was his clear lack of faculties. I then walked away, leaving him to ponder what I'd just said.

*"The Big Bang Theory" show writers clearly weren't big fans of train people and the ravaged us generally for the run of the show, never missing the chance to make train/model train fans appears nuts, lacking in any social skills or pathetic overall. "Pathetic" and "Sad" were words actually used to describe us on a few episodes I remember, one I saw last night on syndication. I'm still a fan of the show regardless. Sadly, their depictions of train folk 100% meet those like them I've met over the years.

The depiction is sad, but do you really think that complaining about this person you met on here is doing anyone any good?  Or the veiled threat of violence?

Why not explain to the young man why you find his attitude unacceptable and maybe coach him how to better himself.  I’d expect more of a former military officer.

TOOG: "There's Only O Gauge" at least that is what I thought someone called it.

Also, I am really surprised that this thread has not been either locked or deleted by now!

@rplst8 posted:

The depiction is sad, but do you really think that complaining about this person you met on here is doing anyone any good? 

It addresses the incorrect assumption brought up here that people in this hobby won't say things to your face that they would be expected to only type online.

Other than train fans, I agree with that assumption, but I've seen what appears to be a lack of social skills (which is pretty prevalent in this hobby) allowing some people at train show to say stuff to people's faces you wouldn't really expect from those in other hobbies (not without losing some of your favorite teeth in response, anyway; Try doing that at a motorcycle or gun show).

That'd be the height of irony - the "Forum Etiquette Help for New Members" thread being shut down for lack of etiquette displayed by its posters !!

@p51 posted:

It addresses the incorrect assumption brought up here that people in this hobby won't say things to your face that they would be expected to only type online.

I think this speaks to an appreciable percentage in the hobby that tend to be quite "Sheldon Cooper*"-ish and probably operate somewhere in the Autism spectrum. You only have to go to a big train show to see it in action.

Your assertions about my post may be true of your experience, but not of mine.  See this is the problem with social media.  I told you this was about my experience, but you assert yours in an attempt to undermine what I know is true for me.  Then you go on and make a broad brushed statement about those on the autism spectrum in our hobby.  I'll tell you what, I know a few people on the spectrum...Happy to know them and have them participate in the hobby.

As on any forum, there's always a few people whose personalities cause issues like this.

• That guy (not being sexist; they're usually guys) who feels they are the first and last word on anything. No matter how obscure the topic, he has to jump in with his rarified opinion to tell you how wrong you are (because, well, he says so). We have a couple of those on this forum; most of you know who I mean
• The type who look for something to be offended by so they can 'school' others
• I call them "forum cops", but they are the ones who must correct others for the most trivial things (such as hyphenating PRR engine classes that was brought up earlier in this thread). You know the guy asking a question on a PRR road numbers 3750 or 1361 meant K4 when he typed K-4. Does it really matter he put the hyphen there? And do we really need to beat people up over small spelling errors?
• Let's not forget the "I know this, so you shouldn't ask the question" types. Someone asks a question because generally, they don't know the answer. Must people beat up on them for asking? Just because you know the answer doesn't mean they already do. Would they be asking otherwise?
• Also, the "this isn't the answer you asked for," type. On another forum, someone asked what kind of equipment would be on a stateside 1952 military train. I posted what I know about the era and what the military equipment by models would likely be, and how they would be painted, grouped together and secured on flat cars. Yet so many others went into the stuff they saw (or heard of) in much later eras. They probably mean well, but wouldn't it better to just not post a non-answer to the question? He had been specific about the time and load types he was looking for, what good does it to do going into something 20 years (or more) later or on another continent?

@p51 posted:

As on any forum, there's always a few people whose personalities cause issues like this.

• That guy (not being sexist; they're usually guys) who feels they are the first and last word on anything. No matter how obscure the topic, he has to jump in with his rarified opinion to tell you how wrong you are (because, well, he says so). We have a couple of those on this forum; most of you know who I mean
• The type who look for something to be offended by so they can 'school' others
• I call them "forum cops", but they are the ones who must correct others for the most trivial things (such as hyphenating PRR engine classes that was brought up earlier in this thread). You know the guy asking a question on a PRR road numbers 3750 or 1361 meant K4 when he typed K-4. Does it really matter he put the hyphen there? And do we really need to beat people up over small spelling errors?
• Let's not forget the "I know this, so you shouldn't ask the question" types. Someone asks a question because generally, they don't know the answer. Must people beat up on them for asking? Just because you know the answer doesn't mean they already do. Would they be asking otherwise?

Which type are you?

This being a train Forum Can't we all just talk about TRAINS. This Thread Should Be Closed. Myself I have read enough.