Hello all 

Fred Icken was one of the O scale pioneers ..beginning in 1927 ..some of his first pieces were a bit "basic" ...but he joined up with Barker in 1930   and the models took an up turn in design and performance.   The Icken and Barker marriage lasted only till April of 1930 .....but the high quality ..and always improving continued with Fred Icken's work for the next several decades. 

 PRR engines were the go to steamers for early manufactures .. high stepping E6 and K4's ... looked great and could take a 36" radius curve ...  space has always been a factor in selling O scale . 

Fred Icken wrote a series of article for Modelmaker  covering the new line of engines  beginning August 1930 ... covering the E6 and K4 .  Retail pricing   E6 ..$60.00...K4 $90.00 ........big time money in 1930 . 

Double gear reduction is similar to Paul Egolf's , who had been building scale models since 1924 .  Icken did beef up the drive ...and would change it again for the fair engines of 1933. 

Here we have a 1930-31 Icken-Barker   ......and a 1931-32 Icken K 4 ...note more details ... price had climbed to the $150.00 range at this time ....  video clip shows the pair double heading pulling 9 ( heavy)  Walthers ..with original Walthers trucks ....

Cheers Carey 

 

oh yes running outside 3rd rail ...which came into being about 1929 ..

 

 

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MELGAR posted:

Does anyone make small ring and pinion gears like that today?

MELGAR

Boston Gear does.  They will make gears to your specs and also have bevel gears in this size as part of regular stock.    I saved a pile of gears from slot cars years ago and have several pair of bevel gears from 2:1 down to about 5:1. I used a pair of 1:4 to turn a shaft with a worm and wheel to power a kit bashed 2-8-0 from a Lionel 1615 and a chassis from a 671 turbine perhaps thirty years ago. My chief complaint was they whine too much.  I pulled it apart and never got around to working on it again. I think if they were in a case with an oil bath the whine would be much less a problem.   Weldon was another US company that made micro gears I think they got out of that business in the early 90s.  I have run across Weldon gears in one of my favorite places on earth, the junk boxes under the tables at York.         j

Hello all ..thank you for your kind words ..    brass sheet ..and brass / bronze castings .... most of the castings on the early one are stamped   I B  ( Icken -Barker) .    There is a casting where the boiler tube and fire box meet to help keep the shape .   Icken in a few short years would be the master of building a locomotive that would run miles ..real miles ...none of the scale crap stuff ..in a day  for days ,weeks, months on end ....just keep adding oil .. he provided many of the engines at the Chicago World's Fair of 1933 ..... folks like Scaft craft ... had their K4 's running ...but quickly had the drive train rebuilt by Icken  .    IC layout ... Icken's ran  the other's on the side track . 

Cheers Carey  

Carey Williams posted:

Hello all perhaps you would like to see a video of the double reduction gearing in action..?

 

Modelmaker June 1930 articleModel Maker September 1930

Carey,  do you know what the final drive ratio between the armature and the drive wheels is ?  You could position the  set screw on the motor shaft straight up and put a pencil mark on one of the wheels and turn the motor by hand counting as you go till the drive wheels make one complete turn. I tried to count teeth but gave up.    I like those old K&D motors and have substituted a couple in place of Lionel Pullmor motors in a Hudson and a Lionel 18009 NYC 4-8-2 Mohawk. The seven pole K&D improves slow speed performance quite a bit.          j

John, the blueprint sheet in Mr. Williams' second post says the gear ratio is 12:1.  Based on my efforts at counting teeth, and the author's assertion that the drive coasts, that seems about right to me.  Of course the 18:1 back-drivable worm gearing that Lionel used in the 700e wasn't too shabby either!

Creep, coast, and pull.  We're not talking about cold fusion here.

Ted S posted:

John, the blueprint sheet in Mr. Williams' second post says the gear ratio is 12:1.  Based on my efforts at counting teeth, and the author's assertion that the drive coasts, that seems about right to me.  Of course the 18:1 back-drivable worm gearing that Lionel used in the 700e wasn't too shabby either!

Thanks Ted.  I missed it the first time.  You know something I have wanted to try with a pullmor motor was to pull the wire off and skew the armature laminations before rewinding it.  Wonder if anyone has tried this.  Would like to know if they thought it worth the effort.  I am curious what affect on low speed growl it might have.  Think I will start a thread on that tomorrow.          j

Ok, we're talking Icken. My dad had a very large outside 3rd rail O layout in the 1980-2000's timeframe. He had an Icken K4 and an E6. When he converted to straight 2 rail, they both got retired. I still have the E6, a real work of art. Carey - great to see 2 of them running. (neither look like my dad's Icken K4 - thought maybe you found it)

Shots of the E6 attached, and one of an Icken N-5 PRR cabin car. I really like the handpainted lettering on both of these. If I'm ever out your way, Carey, I'll bring it and see if she will run on your layout!

Jim

Jim Waterman

Lee Lines Limited

Custom Built Standard Gauge

 

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John I thought about doing this to the armature of a metal scout motor (2034-100.)  These are cheap and I was willing to sacrifice one for scientific advancement.  Couldn't figure out how to do it.  If you succeed, please tag me and post pics!

As you said, swapping in a K&D no. 2 is an easy mod that turns the 700-series Hudsons into great runners on par with anything made up to the advent of electronic speed control.

Creep, coast, and pull.  We're not talking about cold fusion here.

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