Fried Fastrack terminal section - Why?!?

Loose connection with a high load on track.

The voltage applied was maybe only 10-12v. The Fastrak plug type connector is pretty positive - I can't imagine it would arc and melt the plastic. This had to have been a long process of heating. Why would the Z-400's circuit breaker have not prevented this? 

The only other scenario I can imagine is that I was previously running 7  70 foot standards and two express boxes behind my childhood 1954 vintage F-3s. They take 21v and draw a lot of amps. Ran it for maybe 20 or more minutes. Wonder if that train did it and then the shorting out by the mike was the final straw?

Gentlemen,

  As usual Rob is correct, 99% of the time's a bad loose connect.

PCRR/Dave

Hi Everyone:  I recently watched a little movie on a problem with Fastrack that I did not know existed until this film.  For some reason, some of the connector pins in various pieces of Fastrack are not shinny metal, they are dull pot metal and they cannot be bent or they snap and break apart.  The only way to fix the problem is to sacrifice a scrap piece of Fastrack that has the shinny metal pins in them.  You can easily take the pins out of those not used pieces of Fastrack by prying up the tabs and gently straightening the  tabs with a needle nose plier.  You do not have to bend all of the tabs, just about 4 or 5.  Gently pull up the track section and get the pins out of it.  You can gently bend the center and outside Fastrack Rail Pins that are shinny.  Unfortunately, LIONEL does not sell those track pins as a spare part for Fastrack.  Another thing I noticed about Fastrack, there was a change in the molding of Fastrack because the early pieces I bought have little pin holes on the under neath side of the plastic and the later ones have little squares.  I can only guess why the shinny metal pins were changed to pot metal as pot metal is cheaper but you cannot bend it....oh well, such is the life of Lionel Fastrack......railbear601  

Griff Murphey posted:

The only other scenario I can imagine is that I was previously running 7  70 foot standards and two express boxes behind my childhood 1954 vintage F-3s. They take 21v and draw a lot of amps. Ran it for maybe 20 or more minutes. Wonder if that train did it and then the shorting out by the mike was the final straw?

The vintage train with pulmor motors and a small gauge wire - what gauge is that wire? The almost 18 , maybe 20awg that is included with the track?

You had to apply a high voltage to compensate for the inability of the wire to carry the necessary amperage.(current)

it was not a short for the breaker to react and the amperage had not exceeded the capacity of the transformer - the Z-4000 did what it was supposed to do - supply plenty of power

Use a 16 or 14 awg feeder wire the next time.

It looks pretty thick to me. Maybe it's just the picture. I'm guessing he's using 14  or 16 AWG.

I would also say that those crimps could be suspect.  I prefer when using these to add some solder.  I agree with Carl though, the pulmor motors probably didn't help.

Four pulmor motors and seven lighted cars = 9amps?

Train Nut posted:

It looks pretty thick to me. Maybe it's just the picture. I'm guessing he's using 14  or 16 AWG.

Nope, that's the red and blank shrink of the factory leads.

Just to clarify, that's one powered vintage F-3 and one dummy.

The wire is the factory stuff with the slip on plugs that Lionel sells. My Fastrack is all about 8 years old. I think you have a point about the gauge of the wire being too small, I think I will solder a heavier gauge wire to the tabs for next year's layout. 

Do you think it's ok to use this section of track as a normal straight if not a terminal? I am thinking yes.

It'll be fine. Just remove the burnt wires.

Griff Murphey posted:

...The wire is the factory stuff with the slip on plugs that Lionel sells...

There's your problem right there... and to compound the issue, this was likely the only track power connection, right?

ADCX Rob posted:

Griff Murphey posted:

...The wire is the factory stuff with the slip on plugs that Lionel sells...

There's your problem right there... and to compound the issue, this was likely the only track power connection, right?

Exactly what I was thinking.   I use SOME of them on my fastrack.  Along with maybe 10 others of heavier wire on a 6x12 loop. 

Jim

Loose connections = high resistance = higher load = increased current draw = heat = melted wire insulation and surrounding plastic things. ALSO I suspect that Fast Track isn't suited for the Vintage O Gauge Locomotion.  I very rarely see my local train shop put the older equipment on Fast Track to test it out. They put on Atlas Track. 

Noah posted:

 ALSO I suspect that Fast Track isn't suited for the Vintage O Gauge Locomotion.  I very rarely see my local train shop put the older equipment on Fast Track to test it out. They put on Atlas Track. 

 

Fastrack is fine when properly wired for the load.

You are correct it is the only track connection although there are a couple of jumpers they are track to track in two problem areas and not connected to the transformer.

Never a problem with the 736 Berkshire but I guess the F3 did it. I put it on because it needed more annual exercise to blow out the cobwebs and the guest children did not like the smoke the Berk was making. I was pretty much running it just off full bore power.

Thanks to all of you Genelmuns! Next year I will go to soldered connections and bigger wire and will run a lighter train for the old AA F-3 lashup! It was hauling a 5 car mth Pullman set, My Santa Fe talking diner, a Weaver ATSF RPO and two Express boxes.

Griff Murphey posted:

You are correct it is the only track connection although there are a couple of jumpers they are track to track in two problem areas and not connected to the transformer.

Never a problem with the 736 Berkshire but I guess the F3 did it. I put it on because it needed more annual exercise to blow out the cobwebs and the guest children did not like the smoke the Berk was making. I was pretty much running it just off full bore power.

Thanks to all of you Genelmuns! Next year I will go to soldered connections and bigger wire and will run a lighter train for the old AA F-3 lashup! It was hauling a 5 car mth Pullman set, My Santa Fe talking diner, a Weaver ATSF RPO and two Express boxes.

How long was the wire from the Fastrack to the Z4K?  Just the standard foot or so that comes with it? 

Yes the transformer is in the corner and I operate it from a folding chair. Wires are fairly short.

Volphin posted:

Griff Murphey posted:

You are correct it is the only track connection although there are a couple of jumpers they are track to track in two problem areas and not connected to the transformer.

Never a problem with the 736 Berkshire but I guess the F3 did it. I put it on because it needed more annual exercise to blow out the cobwebs and the guest children did not like the smoke the Berk was making. I was pretty much running it just off full bore power.

Thanks to all of you Genelmuns! Next year I will go to soldered connections and bigger wire and will run a lighter train for the old AA F-3 lashup! It was hauling a 5 car mth Pullman set, My Santa Fe talking diner, a Weaver ATSF RPO and two Express boxes.

How long was the wire from the Fastrack to the Z4K?  Just the standard foot or so that comes with it? 

Volphin has a point.  I had a similar incident as Griff's a couple of years ago on my Fastrack Christmas layout.  I had spliced a length of heavier wire to the end of the Lionel provided wire so I could have the transformer off to the side.  I can't remember if I had my Z4000 yet, or if I was using my ZW with circuit breakers and diode protection.  Anyway, all I can figure is I was pulling too much current through that wire.  I did not have a burn on the connector, but I did melt the insulation off the factory provided wire.  I had one connection to the loop at the time.  Now I have heavier gauge wire and two connections.