Gargraves Track

Just a couple comments - some may agree or not.

1. Once the flex track is bent. It's difficult to reuse for several reasons. The track has to be bent AND cut to make what ever diameter curve you need. - It ca be reused, however, only at the same application, i.e. in your case a 42" curve. You'll have little luck trying to reuse or "rebend" the flex track.

2. Its somewhat challenging to get the exact diameter curve you need. 

3. I would look at the cost of buying a fixed curve versus custom bending a piece of flex track.

4. Check out on line auctions, you can usually find pretty cheap gargraves track

Geojr posted:

Just a couple comments - some may agree or not.

1. Once the flex track is bent. It's difficult to reuse for several reasons. The track has to be bent AND cut to make what ever diameter curve you need. - It ca be reused, however, only at the same application, i.e. in your case a 42" curve. You'll have little luck trying to reuse or "rebend" the flex track.

2. Its somewhat challenging to get the exact diameter curve you need. 

3. I would look at the cost of buying a fixed curve versus custom bending a piece of flex track.

4. Check out on line auctions, you can usually find pretty cheap gargraves track

 

 

Thanks. I kinda figured that flex is only really useable once. I'll stick with the performed 042 curves. Now, should I use flex for my straights or use the sectional track? 

flex track is best used for those areas where preformed track doesn't quite lineup.  rigid track is better for a straight line of sight mainlines makes it easier to make a straight line with it. only my opinion but I used flex track for mainlines never could get it without a wiggle someplace.

On my 12' x 44' layout, the majority of my curves I formed from Gargraves flex track. I cut curve forms from 5/8" plywood. I used string and pencil to create radii cuts at 48" (for O96), 44" (for O88), 40", 36", 32", 28", 24", 20", 16" (for O32). I measured the distance from center rail to outside of tie, then subtracted from the above radii when I marked the cuts, so that the O96 (and all the rest) would be center rail radii. As per Gargraves site video, you remove a couple ties at both ends of a section of flex track. I clamp ties against bending form at one end, then start bending from clamped end to the other end. I have not found a way to easily make a direct track to form match without a bunch on manual playing with the track. Once you are satisfied with the curve, you cut the ends. I normally have to use a lot of screws, some into the plywood below my soundboard, to hold the curve in shape. I am probably missing a couple things, but I think this gives you an idea. It takes me, a very novice person at bending track, 15 to 20 minutes per curve to get it bent and installed.

I also used scraps of plywood to create spacers that I can use to keep the distance between ties from an outer loop to an inner loop, thus keeping the nested loop spacing constant around the curve.

So you can see that, at least for me, there is a lot to do to use flex track.

So in my mind, flex track:

Pros - Cheaper, make custom esses as your layout requires, can make custom track to track spacing to give extra clearance between nested loops.

Cons - Takes a lot of time and patience. Use of screws into plywood substructure of you layout may increase operational noise.

StPaul posted:

flex track is best used for those areas where preformed track doesn't quite lineup.  rigid track is better for a straight line of sight mainlines makes it easier to make a straight line with it. only my opinion but I used flex track for mainlines never could get it without a wiggle someplace.

Thanks. Thinking about it more, another question I have is should I get the track with the tinplated outside rails? I don't own any postwar but I want to get some. 

Hello Matt:

From the FWIW dept:

My last attempt at a 3 rail layout used GarGraves track exclusively. I chose to use their sectional track for uniformity on the curves, as well as increased "clickity-clack" on the straights. I also used GarGraves switches exclusively: Yard ladder was 072 (as I recall), some 042 switches in the industrial areas, and 100R (I think?) on the crossovers.  Mainline was 042 minimum.

The tracking performance for all the GarGraves was excellent with no issues with any of the assortment of brands/types of equipment I was using at the time.

IF I re-enter 3-rail and IF I ever do another 3-rail layout, I will again use GarGraves products. I was very pleased with their products.

A "work in progress" (I never got any actual ground texturing/etc in place) pic from my former 3-rail layout:

Best of luck whatever you decide.

All fer now.

Andre

laming posted:

Hello Matt:

From the FWIW dept:

My last attempt at a 3 rail layout used GarGraves track exclusively. I chose to use their sectional track for uniformity on the curves, as well as increased "clickity-clack" on the straights. I also used GarGraves switches exclusively: Yard ladder was 072 (as I recall), some 042 switches in the industrial areas, and 100R (I think?) on the crossovers.  Mainline was 042 minimum.

The tracking performance for all the GarGraves was excellent with no issues with any of the assortment of brands/types of equipment I was using at the time.

IF I re-enter 3-rail and IF I ever do another 3-rail layout, I will again use GarGraves products. I was very pleased with their products.

A "work in progress" (I never got any actual ground texturing/etc in place) pic from my former 3-rail layout:

Best of luck whatever you decide.

All fer now.

Andre

Awesome. 

Hello, in the design and construction of my 8' by 24' layout. i used Gargraves track and Ross Custom switches and the two processes went very well.

Another perspective from someone just building a layout now. I am using a mix of both Gargraves and tubular track, against the recommendation of most people. That is because I already had hundreds of feet of straight and pre-bent Gargraves (in storage for 30 years) and it seemed a shame to not use it.

So, my solution was to use Gargraves on my two outer loops (roughly 40' x 9'), and tubular for my switch yard and crossover. That way the dozen 022 switches I had (also in storage) didn't have to go to waste and Gargraves switches, while beautiful, are expensive.

I use Gargraves to tubular pin adapters, and I find that they work ok IF you don't connect the Gargraves directly to an 022 switch, especially on a curve. I found that out the hard way. So solution there is to connect one section of tubular to the switch and then do the adapter to Gargraves.

Some may find that it looks funky to have both types of track on one layout, but I'm ok with it. At the end of the day, I'm going to be watching the trains, not the track.

Hope this helps!

Trainlover9943 posted:

 

Awesome. 

Thank you.

I think the entire layout concept was a sound one... just didn't pan out.

Andre

dkdkrd posted:

StPaul posted:

flex track is best used for those areas where preformed track doesn't quite lineup.  rigid track is better for a straight line of sight mainlines makes it easier to make a straight line with it. only my opinion but I used flex track for mainlines never could get it without a wiggle someplace.

 

The 37" flex track (tinplate) is currently $2.75 less expensive than the same length of rigid track.  Gargraves volunteered this as a means of saving one of our (LHS) customers some significant $$$ on a track plan (rather LARGE) that he submitted to us for quote.  He generated his plan using RR-Track, specifying rigid 37" straights and preformed curves everywhere except for the custom transitions.   

When I built my own Ross/Gargraves layout I used flex for all straights (tangents).  I made a very simple jig to keep it in alignment.  If you're like me, you probably have accumulated a bunch of yardsticks from various/sundry political campaigns, hardware stores, etc., etc..  Rip one to a width of 19/32" and it will neatly fit between the center rail and one of the outer rails, keeping the 37" length straight as it's fastened down.  Drill a few 1/4" holes along the length of the jig strip, and you can shift it as necessary to give you access to a track tie for drilling a clearance hole to receive the track screw.  

So, I told the customer that's what I'd do for him if he so desired......donate another yardstick (political party of MY choice!) and rip him his own flex track jig so he could save some moolah.   

Negotiations are continuing.

FWIW, of course.

KD

Awesome. So if I use flex (as straights) do I have to cut the rails to mate up with the next piece or not? 

laming posted:

Trainlover9943 posted:

 

Awesome. 

Thank you.

I think the entire layout concept was a sound one... just didn't pan out.

Andre

You're welcome. 

I use the flex for all my straights. Use a straight edge and it’s perfect. 

I had no issues with straight flex. It should have the curves secured. You can rebend slightly larger without too much issue; but don't expect to make a right turn go left... or even straight again... wiggle would be there 99.9% of tries. Bending tighter is no big deal. 

There was no issue huge using Lionel turnouts ( track and turnouts secured, no pins connecting)  We had trouble with the kids running too fast at the scale turnouts and the anti derail vs tortoise type motors, the action was far too slow. Others with faster point motors had engine stalling issues. I cant even recall which was which, but we used Ross, GG, & Atlas, then reverted back to Lionel. They all had their strengths, but the Lionels out performed every other turnout we had tried.

GarGraves or Super O, then Kline/RMT. Those aRMT my favorites. (spell-wreck)

GG is the only way to go.  I used boxes of flex track, in the 1to1 scale world the track is not straight for miles and miles but just in a few places.  P.S. after I ballasted the track I removed 1/3 to 1/2 of the screws used to tack the track to the layout.

CBS072 posted:

GG is the only way to go.  I used boxes of flex track, in the 1to1 scale world the track is not straight for miles and miles but just in a few places.  P.S. after I ballasted the track I removed 1/3 to 1/2 of the screws used to tack the track to the layout.

Looks nice!

Actually, it's not that hard to rebend Gargraves flex. I had ten cases of salvaged track, about a third of which was bent. As long as you turn it back into a curve, and use a jig to reset it, your OK. It's almost impossible to take a curved piece and make it straight again. I'm not a fan of the rigid track, both curves and straights.

I also have a mix of "o"  tubular and GG flex  with Lionel switches. I've had no trouble connecting the GG to switches with pins . Most of my layout is 2" foam unsupported by plywood. I use cork roadbed glued to the foam then glue the track to the cork .To hold the curves in place until the glue dries I just stick nails into the cork and pull them later. To compensate for the height difference . I bend the track over a wine barrel to get different radii. 

I have been using Gargraves since the mid-80s.  I’ve used flex track for straights, curves and S-curves.  When new, it isn’t difficult to bend, but does get more difficult as the curve diameter gets smaller.  As a few others have said, the flex track can be re-bent, but it can be a PITA especially if it has been in one position for 30 years.  Another thing in favor of flex track is fewer joints so you don’t need as many power connections.  You might want to get a few pieces of flex and try bending to O42 before you decide.

 You asked about using the track with tinplated outside rail.  That is all I use in a sometimes-humid attic with no problems.  You should only need the stainless outer rails if the layout environment is very humid.

it takes some patience and a lot of practice to lay down Gargraves track... a slight misnomer to refer to it as "flex" track since it is vastly different than flex track associated with other scales.  i've never found plywood curve forms useful favoring any round object (i've often used a metal trash container) with a diameter slightly smaller than the tightest curve.  once a curve is generally formed, it can be gently widened easily enough while still keeping a smooth curve.  if you attempt to tighten a curve (without a generally round form), that is when a kink is likely to form.  i draw a centerline and simply follow that path.  when done correctly, forming Gargraves track vs using OTS hard radius curves will always produce more reliable layout.

the downside of your plan is the tightness of the curves you want.  when i have assisted in building large layouts using Gargraves, min diameter has usually been 72".  i've laid a few curves with a tighter radius, and it does get a bit trickier somewhat exponentially as the radius decreases.

the huge downside to stainless steel track is soldering leads.  unless you go outside, stick to tinplate.

good luck...gary