GG1 Gets $$$$$

It is a good way to get lots of attention and there fore the highest price.  You can always get a buddy to bid it back in for you.

I am curious, what would a realistic price be for that black 2332?

Darn.  After seeing the title, I was hoping someone donated a chuck of money to restore old rivets (or at least get her out of the weather).

Bob: That was also my first thought when I saw the thread title.

Dan Padova posted:

Oscar posted:

It is a good way to get lots of attention and there fore the highest price. 

I don't know if I would have had the nerve to put a starting price of $.99 on an item like that.  

I'm with Dan. I wouldn't do a starting bid like that. I tried it with several items a number of years ago to see what would happen, and really got hosed. Never again. 

You do know that if a friend buys it back for you, you still pay Ebay  20% unless you have an Ebay store, then you pay less.

where do you get 20% I do not have a store and there only charging me 10% and I just got done selling something. I know they charge the 10% on both the sale and the shipping

breezinup posted:

Dan Padova posted:

Oscar posted:

It is a good way to get lots of attention and there fore the highest price. 

I don't know if I would have had the nerve to put a starting price of $.99 on an item like that.  

I'm with Dan. I wouldn't do a starting bid like that. I tried it with several items a number of years ago to see what would happen, and really got hosed. Never again. 

you can always have your friend to request to cancel the sale and it cost you nothing, but I bet if you did to many of them they would give some type of warning

Isn't that the purpose of a reserve price?

Steve Maier and I visited The Train Station in Mountain Lakes NJ on the way to Trainstock this year. Don Shaw Jr (?) showed us a black GG1 that was supposed to be a one of a kind, perhaps a prototype that they bought in a collection. It was right handsome!

penn station posted:

Isn't that the purpose of a reserve price?

Reserves are well-known turnoffs to buyers. Many won't even bother to bid on items that are listed with a reserve.

I dunno, if you bid what you are willing to pay and then it doesn't hit the reserve or you are outbid, either way you don't get it but you haven't lost anything.  It's silly to think you are going to get it for $0.99.

I believe that the story of the Black GG1's was that Bill Vogel, a large Lionel dealer back in the day wanted a black GG1 so he took six cabs removed them from the chassis, had them stripped and painted black. Then brought them to his friend Lionel Cowan and asked that they apply the stripes. Lionel was happy to oblige. AFAIK, the black GG1 was not a Lionel product (cataloged or uncatalogued) but still a part of its dealers history . 

rtraincollector posted:

breezinup posted:

Dan Padova posted:

Oscar posted:

It is a good way to get lots of attention and there fore the highest price. 

I don't know if I would have had the nerve to put a starting price of $.99 on an item like that.  

I'm with Dan. I wouldn't do a starting bid like that. I tried it with several items a number of years ago to see what would happen, and really got hosed. Never again. 

you can always have your friend to request to cancel the sale and it cost you nothing, but I bet if you did to many of them they would give some type of warning

I assume you realize that is called shill bidding, and illegal. If someone suspects a shill bidder is involved, eBay will look into the allegation. If confirmed, which isn’t necessarily hard to do, the seller and shill bidder can be booted off eBay.

I have seen some obvious shill bidding, mostly for other categories other than trains, over the years. The one I had to carefully navigate around was for the purchase of a Nikon digital SLR.

Jim R. posted:

rtraincollector posted:

you can always have your friend to request to cancel the sale and it cost you nothing, but I bet if you did to many of them they would give some type of warning

I assume you realize that is called shill bidding, and illegal. If someone suspects a shill bidder is involved, eBay will look into the allegation. If confirmed, which isn’t necessarily hard to do, the seller and shill bidder can be booted off eBay.

I have seen some obvious shill bidding, mostly for other categories other than trains, over the years. The one I had to carefully navigate around was for the purchase of a Nikon digital SLR.

If they don't "Boot" them can the buyer bring the Feds in against the 'Bay? 

rtraincollector posted:

where do you get 20% I do not have a store and there only charging me 10% and I just got done selling something. I know they charge the 10% on both the sale and the shipping

 

The fees for selling on Ebay end up totaling 14% because of the Pay Pal fee.

There are several points to remember about Ebay buying and selling.

1) New sellers get lower bids (if at all), the extreme being someone with zero history will be lucky to see a bid.

2) Sellers with tens-of-thousands of sales with nearly 100% positive feedback get premium prices.

3) Even buying with few transactions in your record can be difficult. Ebay occasionally runs a sale (10%-20% off final bid figure) but will only allow one sale per registered buyer. So I registered with a new account (zero feedbacks) and had to explain to the seller that I was for real before he would ship the $600 set I had already paid for using Pay Pal.

4) Selling OR buying with any negative feedback in your record gets dicey quickly because trust both ways is necessary. 

5) Shilling is a reality which is why wise buyers decide at the outset the maximum they are willing to pay for an item and follow an ironclad rule to not get Buck Fever and bid higher than that assessment. 

Lehigh74 posted:

Darn.  After seeing the title, I was hoping someone donated a chuck of money to restore old rivets (or at least get her out of the weather).

Now that would be a nice thing to see happen.  But the donations would most likely come from hobbyists and rail fans.  Since most of us have to watch what we spend on trains, the donations could be on the light side. 

breezinup posted:

penn station posted:

Isn't that the purpose of a reserve price?

Reserves are well-known turnoffs to buyers. Many won't even bother to bid on items that are listed with a reserve.

I agree.  As soon as I see a reserve price auction I move on.  Reserve pricing doesn't compute in my mind.  If you want to sell something and won't take less than a certain amount, why not just do the best offer thing and not take less than what your reserve price would have been. 

penn station posted:

I dunno, if you bid what you are willing to pay and then it doesn't hit the reserve or you are outbid, either way you don't get it but you haven't lost anything.  It's silly to think you are going to get it for $0.99.

I don't think anyone would expect to get something for $.99.  

I have been buying from ebay for 20 years.  I don't sell but my impression was sellers were balancing trying to minimize ebay charges while trying to get the highest price.  It is clear there are multiple approaches to selling as well as buying for both auctions and buy it now and the hybrids of these.

If you find an item with a low starting price and no reserve you hope you are the only one to notice it - maybe there is a misspelling or in the wrong category that keeps it below the radar - so maybe you can sneak by and get that low starting price.  Also you need two bidders for the price to go up.  Maybe the other guy who would want it is on vacation.

My wife watches car auctions on TV.  There is often a reserve to protect the seller if the "right" buyer isn't around at that show.  Of course, they are dealing with 10's to 100's of thousands of dollars or more.

There are so many factors that there is no one size fits all approach.

When I started with auctions I would get into last minute bidding wars, get really worked up, and way overpaid for some items.  Eventually I gained perspective and took one bid and either you get it or you don't approach.  Now I mostly go for buy it now items if the price is reasonable.  Some high volume sellers have low prices and count on the volume.

What I hate the most is absurd shipping charges.  That will always get me to move on.

I very recently had an unusual experience with a seller when I purchased a Lionel PRR T1 advertised "as 'New and Unrun' from my late father's collection". Was listed in the NEW category. I wrote and made him a reasonable offer and he countered with us settling on a decent price. His shipping charge was $48. I wrote and offered to send him a prepaid UPS label but he wouldn't do it. Tried a 2nd time. It should have been $23-$27 tops as I have an account and do this often with no problems. 

I paid his last price offer thinking I was buying a New Unrun T1 from 2000 and reluctantly paid the $48. When it arrived (quickly) by FedEx, I realized that it was not NIB but indeed been run as the rollers were marked.  I wrote to him and asked for some compensation because it was not 'NIB' but he refused saying "I'm not familiar with trains and my dad didn't have a layout so I didn't think he had run it".  There was nothing wrong with it but it was not as advertised. We went back and forth a bit with me telling him I didn't want to give him negative feedback and that I would accept a mere $20 posted to my account to cover the overage in shipping. He retorted with "Don't try to shake me down for extra money" and refused to give me anything. I asked him twice more telling him I did not want to give negative feedback and never have since 1999. He ignored me so this morning I gave him Neutral feedback stating that 'it was not as described' and that 'the shipping was excessive'.   Those were the facts...

Not trying to Hi-Jack this thread but I just had to respond.  Ebay is a funny thing.  You either like it or you hate it.  I’ve be buying and selling on “The Bay” since the beginning and for the most part, everything goes smooth.  Every once in a while, there will be a bump in the road but overall, it’s been good.  That being said, the key to the Magic 100% Positive Feed Back, (which usually equates into more buyers) is Happy Customers.  It’s a two-way street.  There have been only a few times that I have had to “compensate” a buyer because they were less than pleased with my conservative grading practices, (I have 3,000 plus feedback both buying and selling) because “beauty is in the eye of the beholder”.  And to be fair, “used” is a subjective term which is usually interpreted differently between the seller and the buyer.  Overall, it seems to me that the seller that is unwilling to “negotiate” will usually have less than 100% positive feedback as a result.

I once left “Neutral Feedback” for a very well-known seller because the condition of the item I purchased was broken on arrival.  The reason for this action was because the item wasn’t packed very well and when I messaged the seller through Ebay, he didn’t respond at all.  I repaired the item (a very nice Atlas Boxcar) and ultimately left “Neutral Feedback”.  The seller’s response was to block me from future bidding.   Like they say, “it is, what it is”.  Again, Ebay isn’t for everyone but it works pretty good for me.

Chief Bob (Retired)

c.sam posted:

I very recently had an unusual experience with a buyer when I purchased a Lionel PRR T1 advertised as "New and Unrun' from my late father's collection". Was listed in the NEW category. I wrote and made him a reasonable offer and he countered with us settling on a decent price. His shipping charge was $48. I wrote and offered to send him a prepaid UPS label but he wouldn't do it. Tried a 2nd time. It should have been $23-$27 tops as I have an account and do this often with no problems. 

I paid his last price offer and reluctantly paid the $48. When it arrived (quickly) by FedEx, I realized that it had it was not NIB but indeed been run as the rollers were marked.  I wrote to him and asked for some compensation because it was not 'NIB' but he refused saying "I'm not familiar with trains and my dad didn't have a layout so I didn't think he had run it".  There was nothing wrong with it but it was not as advertised. We went back and forth a bit with me telling him I didn't want to give him negative feedback and that I would accept a mere $20 posted to my account to cover the overage in shipping. He retorted with "Don't try to shake me down for extra money" and refused to give me anything. I asked him twice more telling him I did not want to give negative feedback and never have since 1999. He ignored me so this morning I gave him Neutral feedback stating that 'it was not as described' and that 'the shipping was excessive'.   Those were the facts...

 

Sam,  I am guessing you intended to say you had an unusual experience with a seller not a buyer.  Over the years I have about 1800 total transactions on eBay the vast majority have gone very smooth. However on four or five occasions I have received items that were grossly over rated.  In your case the day it arrived, if possible,  I would have made the best photos I could of the loco and the the worn rollers. File a complaint with eBay.  Then I would have either send it back or wait till the seller made an offer for a partial refund.   When eBay steps in it is amazing how fast an intransigent seller will change their position.  After they contemplate a full refund and return shipping cost they will make the first offer for a partial refund.  I let sellers slide a bit on describing something used but when they say "New In The Box" I expect new in the box and will raise a ruckus if it is not. EBay allows buyers two weeks to return items I think I would still file a complaint with them and see what the seller says. Twenty dollars is a very good offer on your part and he should have jumped on it. Something I watch for is an inexperienced seller. You can usually spot them by their description and poor photos.  Then it is time to ask a lot of questions most of them just don't know how to grade trains.  As for shipping cost USPS seems to be the base line for UPS and Fedex. For several years USPS had the best prices almost across the board but they doubled some rates in Jan. of this year and now are only competitive on lighter packages under four or five pounds .  I spoke with my mail carrier when the rates went up and he said the mail ladies did not like delivering the heavy packages and had been complaining since USPS went after the package market several years ago. I have actually asked sellers to add UPS or Fedex to their shipping calculator several times this year. A couple actually did.  The problem with many sellers is they pay counter rates for shipping and won't spring for the $30 for a bottom line printer to get the eBay's shipping discounts. I have enough trains now that when I sense a BONE HEAD SELLER I walk away regardless of how good the deal may seem on the surface.  Not too late to file with eBay. I would have sent this guy a negative feedback.          j

breezinup posted:

Dan Padova posted:

Oscar posted:

It is a good way to get lots of attention and there fore the highest price. 

I don't know if I would have had the nerve to put a starting price of $.99 on an item like that.  

I'm with Dan. I wouldn't do a starting bid like that. I tried it with several items a number of years ago to see what would happen, and really got hosed. Never again. 

I have done well with such low starting bids it attracts a lot of watchers.   If it gets too scary you can always end an auction early if it still has more than twelve hours left till the item ends.          j

Thanks for the comments fellas - Yes, I just caught that I had put 'Buyer' and edited it now.  The seller was experienced with a lot of feedback and may have been grieving his father's passing. He was very antagonistic but did offer to issue a return tag and refund IF it came back is the same condition. What might I have been facing with someone like that had I done it?

The locomotive was in otherwise LN condition and I paid a total of $578 for it. The best deal at the time was one w/out it's box and had a small scratch on the tender that a guy offered to me for $455 shipped. As good as that seemed, I figured that for $100 more I was getting a new one.  I'm pleased with it but just bristled at paying $48 for shipping.

Just don't want to give a negative if at all possible...

JohnActon posted:

I have done well with such low starting bids it attracts a lot of watchers.   If it gets too scary you can always end an auction early if it still has more than twelve hours left till the item ends.          j

Unfortunately, ending an auction with 12 hours left is pretty much the same as not not having it. The highest bids rarely come in before the very end of an auction. So the end auction 12 hour rule is of no real value as a safety escape. Ebay imposed that rule a number of years ago. Before that, a seller could end an auction up to the time the bidding closed, which a lot of sellers used as a way out if the bidding was too low. I can see why Ebay closed that loophole, but the 12 hour lockin gives the seller no option but using reserves, which buyers dispise.  

Lehigh74 posted:

Darn.  After seeing the title, I was hoping someone donated a chuck of money to restore old rivets (or at least get her out of the weather).

Yeah, I thought the same (well, at least one of the GG-1 sitting rotting away, of which I can think of several)…

But as for the eBay thing, I knew a guy who did that with everything. If someone managed to be the only bidder, he'd just undo the auction noting it was the wrong opening price. He only had to do that twice.