Skip to main content

I had a confab with Jonathan and Richard over the weekend and ironed out these projects. Thanks guys. No, they will not all come at the same time, and you should know by now, we hold models for customers making layaway payments if they do come too close together. Point being, we are in business to serve our customers, not to shove models down their throats. Relax, enjoy the offering and reserve the one's you want, so we can plan our production accordingly. We'll take care of the rest. THANK YOU ALL AGAIN!!!

Regarding Amfleet and Viewliner Run#2: We will now take your reservations for a 2nd run. It can take a year or more to produce, so if you couldn't get all you wanted from these, please put in your new reservations now. We'll transfer them to the new run.  We are now sold out of the first run of Amfleets and Viewliners.  Yes, we will be offering Amfleet IIs in the future.

Last edited by sdmann

This is huge. Scott, if there's any hope of putting DCS in these via a licensing agreement, that would seal the deal for me, as only DCS has authentic P42 sounds.

A few questions, if you don't mind:

-Are any of the 50th Anniversary liveries part of this run?
-Would you consider adding dummy units as an option? I'd love to doublehead some of these, but I don't necessarily need the power in both units.

Thanks!
Rafi

This announcement is still a little bit in its infancy in that we only discussed all of this Saturday. 

  • Dummies are a funny animal.  Some people want them and some don't.  For this project though dummies might be possible. Traditionally they are not a lot cheaper to build than a powered unit, but for 3 rail if there are enough orders for them, anything is possible. 
  • We did discuss 50th anniversary schemes.  I would expect that they will be offered.  
  • DCS is not going to be an option.  Scott has the license for ERR boards.  I would expect that the cost to license it and put it in the 20-30 locomotives that might be ordered with it would be offset by purchasing one with a factory ERR board and replacing it with DCS.  The ERR board has the ability to accept different sounds and I expect we will get a good GE sound set for it. 


I have the same challenge as everyone else on the overall announcement.  I will want three FP45s for my EL Capitan, three SDP40Fs for my Southwest Limited, and at least two P42s of which one is the "Pepsi-Can" 50th Anniversary scheme for my Viewliner / Amfleet Consist.

Add to that a set of Superliners too.  Probably Phase III paint for me, but some in Phase II paint might be interesting to mix with my former El Cap cars.  Then again, I have some K-Line Superliner IIs in phase IV paint.  This could be quite the challenge!  

@sdmann posted:

Regarding Amfleet and Viewliner Run#2: We will now take your reservations for a 2nd run. It can take a year or more to produce, so if you couldn't get all you wanted from these, please put in your new reservations now. We'll transfer them to the new run.  We are now sold out of the first run of Amfleets and Viewliners.  Yes, we will be offering Amfleet IIs in the future.

So if we were already on Standy By for Viewliners, should we put in a new reservation?

@The GN Man posted:

Scott & Jonathan, are you considering a Superliner transition sleeper? It’s the “missing car” on your list of Superliners. I will definitely be a buyer!

Bingo--if at all possible, a transition sleeper is vital for a prototypical consist. We need something to connect the Superliners vestibule-to-vestibule to a Viewliner Baggage car.

Transition cars are Superliner IIs, we are doing Superliner Is this round. IIs in the future.

Sound reasonable?

Regarding Dummy Diesels, we will never do them as they cost almost as much to make and very hard to sell if left over. FL9s taught us a big lesson.

Regarding DCS: If an MTH Licensed Repair / Dealer wants to offer some of these post production, converted to DCS, that would be the way to get that done. There are few dealers that are interested in doing that.

Regarding Further Schemes: We consider them when we see enough orders in general. E-60s showed promise on the forum regarding  enthusiasm, but only resulted in 60 reservation after 1 year on the reservation page. Amtrak (Matt) said, if your not going to make it, take it down, so we did.

Last edited by sdmann

Until I move the current part numbers to OLD part numbers for Amfleet / Viewliners, we will record new reservations as Stand-By and transfer them all at one time to a 2nd Run. This takes time as things are still in flux with stand-by orders that we are in the process of filling. A couple weeks and we can do this with confidence.

I'll let the experts discuss / comment on further offerings.

@sdmann posted:

Transition cars are Superliner IIs, we are doing Superliner Is this round. IIs in the future.

Sound reasonable?

Regarding Dummy Diesels, we will never do them as they cost almost as much to make and very hard to sell if left over. FL9s taught us a big lesson.

Regarding DCS: If an MTH Licensed Repair / Dealer wants to offer some of these post production, converted to DCS, that would be the way to get that done. There are few dealers that are interested in doing that.

Regarding Further Schemes: We consider them when we see enough orders in general. E-60s showed promise on the forum regarding  enthusiasm, but only resulted in 60 reservation after 1 year on the reservation page. Amtrak (Matt) said, if your not going to make it, take it down, so we did.

Nice to get a bit more clarification on the E-60's. I actually didn't realize that the reservations were up for a year, so I understand why they got canned; hopefully the project can be started up again in the future.

Even though I have a bunch of dummies in my train collection (being a traditional-sized collector, they come naturally ), I actually like that you guys just make powered units and that's that. IMHO I wish that any sets of diesels can come with all powered locomotives, at least as an option. I want my locomotives to actually help in pulling stuff, and not just get dragged around for appearance purposes only. And this isn't a jab at anyone that wants dummies, just putting in my $.02. Also Scott, do your locomotives still have the switch on the bottom that allows you to change the direction in which the locomotive goes when you start it up on conventional control?

And with all that out of the way, I actually did not expect to see more Amtrak stuff being up for reservation so soon, at least not until next year. I'm honestly very shocked, and also afraid for my finances, haha. I'm also glad to hear you sold out of the Amfleets too

@Will Ebbert posted:

Just wanted to point out that while Atlas O recently announced P42s, the price is so high that to me it makes the 3rd Rail version a no brainer. Only $280 more for fixed pilots, scale trucks, accurate details,

Not only that, I'm not sure what Atlas was thinking with the "matching" Amfleets.  You can't get them in Phase VI which would make it prototypical, even for 18" cars.

I don't want to hijack this thread for an Atlas product, but the prospect of running some of these fantasy scheme Amfleets with the GGD Genesis is intriguing to me.

Will rightly points out that Atlas' price point on their model is precipitously close to the GGD price point; indeed, the only reason I would even consider the Atlas model, really, is for PS3 compatibility out of the box.

But those fantasy schemes are intriguing to me, and if I'm not mistaken that Phase V scheme is actually very, very close to the Acela Regional scheme that Amtrak very briefly ran in the early 2000's. I may actually get a set of those Amfleets for the GGD Genesis to pull.

Rafi

@Rafi posted:

I don't want to hijack this thread for an Atlas product, but the prospect of running some of these fantasy scheme Amfleets with the GGD Genesis is intriguing to me.

Will rightly points out that Atlas' price point on their model is precipitously close to the GGD price point; indeed, the only reason I would even consider the Atlas model, really, is for PS3 compatibility out of the box.

But those fantasy schemes are intriguing to me, and if I'm not mistaken that Phase V scheme is actually very, very close to the Acela Regional scheme that Amtrak very briefly ran in the early 2000's. I may actually get a set of those Amfleets for the GGD Genesis to pull.

Rafi

The offering in Phase V is quite interesting! I always thought the splotch scheme was neat. I bought a run of the Nicholas Smith MTH ones maybe a year or two back. They're quite colorful.

The PS3 inside the Atlas units are a big draw, and I wish that was an option with the ones from GGD which will most certainly be nicer in every way.

I might be doing the opposite of you. I have a collection of the MTH P42s and I cannot wait to put in a reservation for the GGD Superliner Is once more things come to light (mainly if Superliner IIs will follow soon after)

@P42Amtrak83 posted:

The offering in Phase V is quite interesting! I always thought the splotch scheme was neat. I bought a run of the Nicholas Smith MTH ones maybe a year or two back. They're quite colorful.

The PS3 inside the Atlas units are a big draw, and I wish that was an option with the ones from GGD which will most certainly be nicer in every way.

I might be doing the opposite of you. I have a collection of the MTH P42s and I cannot wait to put in a reservation for the GGD Superliner Is once more things come to light (mainly if Superliner IIs will follow soon after)

I'm actually in a similar conundrum with the engines. I have two MTH DCS premier P42s (Phase IV and V) that I have every intention of keeping, and now I'm faced with a choice: get GGD P42s to augment that fleet and if I run doubleheads, it could look...weird. Or...do I go with Atlas' new stuff and rest assured that things will look consistent, but know in the back of my head that I could have had much better-looking, more realistic engines. The Superliners are so enticing, too, as they've always been on my "one day" wish list.

In a perfect world, money would be no object and I'd just outfit my whole fleet with the GGD stuff and sell off my old MTH stuff, but the world ain't perfect. <sigh>

On the flip side, how fortunate we are that we have Lionel, Atlas and GGD putting out some fantastic looking Amtrak equipment in O scale! If someone announces a Charger or Sprinter, I'll probably need to be committed.

Rafi

@Rafi posted:

I'm actually in a similar conundrum with the engines. I have two MTH DCS premier P42s (Phase IV and V) that I have every intention of keeping, and now I'm faced with a choice: get GGD P42s to augment that fleet and if I run doubleheads, it could look...weird. Or...do I go with Atlas' new stuff and rest assured that things will look consistent, but know in the back of my head that I could have had much better-looking, more realistic engines. The Superliners are so enticing, too, as they've always been on my "one day" wish list.

In a perfect world, money would be no object and I'd just outfit my whole fleet with the GGD stuff and sell off my old MTH stuff, but the world ain't perfect. <sigh>

On the flip side, how fortunate we are that we have Lionel, Atlas and GGD putting out some fantastic looking Amtrak equipment in O scale! If someone announces a Charger or Sprinter, I'll probably need to be committed.

Rafi

I hear you completely!

You're right, you'd certainly would need two of the same brand P42s for it to look right.  I'm a bit attached to the sounds of the Protosound system.

I've got a bunch of MTH P42s. I had a 50th anniversary unit custom painted just before the 3rd Rail announcement.  I think I had it running a week before the announcement.  I got it to go with my Viewliners.

I'm with you, in a perfect world, I'd have all GGD stuff haha. But reality is, I can't swing it...as much as I want to.

I suppose I have a decision between the MTH engines I have with a nice consist of 21" cars or two amazing P42s with a consist of 18" cars I have already.

I'll take out a loan if GGD comes out with next-gen motive power. Haha

Well the question  regarding the P42 quanundrum is

1] how much more detail is one gonna get on a GGD P42 compared to the MTH/Atlas O P42 with a msrp difference of $280.00 per unit.

A previous comparison would be Sunset vs. MTH premier ALCo PA-1's. Bodywise there was no difference that really stood out. It was the details such as simulated sealed beam headlight [ss] vs. Plastic lense with 3mm led insert [mth]. Trainline and air hose details on the pilot [ss]

And the big one. No swinging pilot and gap for Sunset models

2] the GGD will be using the ERR reverse and Railsounds GE Dash 9 sound file. Will the Atlas O units have DCS?

What's the delivery date for Atlas O units as their current locomotive delivery history for the past decade has been sketchy at best.

Sunset/GGD track record is once reservations close, 6-10 months til delivery.

@P42Amtrak83 posted:

I hear you completely!

You're right, you'd certainly would need two of the same brand P42s for it to look right.  I'm a bit attached to the sounds of the Protosound system.

I'm with you, in a perfect world, I'd have all GGD stuff haha. But reality is, I can't swing it...as much as I want to.

I suppose I have a decision between the MTH engines I have with a nice consist of 21" cars or two amazing P42s with a consist of 18" cars I have already.

I'll take out a loan if GGD comes out with next-gen motive power. Haha

In regards to GGD vs MTH superliners is there really is NO COMPARISON!

For the price point, one really gets their moneys worth with as much details on a $350.00/GGD car than anything on the market! From the correct window configuration to the correct trucks for that passenger car and 10 figures per car included as well!

The question one really has to ask is can you run 21"passenger cars that really need 072 or larger diameter curves? If you can. Than go for the GGD stuff if you love scale. You will not look back once you do!

Personally a distant second to GGD superliners would be the K-line21" cars followed by the Lionel 18" Amtrak superliner sets painted only in 2 flavors- phase II and phase IV.

@Will Ebbert posted:

Just wanted to point out that while Atlas O recently announced P42s, the price is so high that to me it makes the 3rd Rail version a no brainer. Only $280 more for fixed pilots, scale trucks, accurate details, etc.

Atlas is offering 2-rail models. So I am guessing that these would have fixed pilots and the announcement mentions Proto 3-2 conversion capable. Also Forum Sponsors are offering a preorder price around $570. So you could get something good enough for less than what the Sunset models cost.

These are just my opinion,

Naveen Rajan

@GG1 4877 posted:

I am obviously biased, but the MTH tooling is at best Railking Scale quality having been introduced in 1998.  I'll be happy to replace my MTH one with a better quality model.

Whole heartedly Agree !!! I’ve never purchased a MTH P42 as they just are not very well done !!! Swinging pilot with huge gap to body, lobster claw, and sits WAY too high. 🤭😑😵‍💫😖☹️I don’t know about the P42 trucks, but Many MTH trucks have Never been upgraded from crude Simple moldings. Definitely Rail King quality on a premier priced product. Whenever 3rd rail offers my roads, I sell my old MTH models and put what $ I get into the Serious 3rail model Upgrade !!!!!  
Cheers

Will the various GGD Amtrak coaches including the heritage 3/4 dome brass car in the works look properly scaled with the MTH F40PH Tooling (now from Atlas O)?   Note:  I consider any Amtrak car that is a rebuild obtained from a pre-1971 operator to be Heritage Equipment.  That is exactly how Amtrak branded it in their catalogs back then.  "Heritage Fleet" "Amfleet" etc.

Second, when will the GGD Amtrak (and other) Slumber coaches be available?

Last edited by Mike W.

I know there was talk of Amfleet IIs a while back.  What would be the chances that they will be offered with another run of Amfleet Is?

If I were to build a Pennsylvanian, I'd need two Amfleet Is and four Amfleet IIs.

Should I reserve the two Amfleet Is now and bank on the Amfleet IIs being available in the future...or assume I can reserve the IIs and the Is at the same time?

@P42Amtrak83 posted:

I know there was talk of Amfleet IIs a while back.  What would be the chances that they will be offered with another run of Amfleet Is?

If I were to build a Pennsylvanian, I'd need two Amfleet Is and four Amfleet IIs.

Should I reserve the two Amfleet Is now and bank on the Amfleet IIs being available in the future...or assume I can reserve the IIs and the Is at the same time?

I highly doubt that a run of Amfleet II's will be produced with the second run of Amfleet I's and Viewliner II's. There's not too much [farther than 3ft rule] to distinguish between Amfleet I and Amfleet II and a lot of people may get confused. Best to leave Amfleet I and Amfleet II runs separate.

I could see a run of Amfleet II's coinside with either Superliner II or Viewliner I's though.

The MTH F40PH represents the early configuration of F40PHs or sometimes referred to as a phase I F40PH (not to be confused with Amtrak paint phasing).  I have six of which three are Amtrak.  My complaint about the model is similar to my complaint about their Genesis.  The tooling is from the late 90's.  As a result there are many deficiencies on the model.  The pilot steps are incorrect, it rides high, and the paint colors are too dark.  One would assume that Atlas will get the colors correct as their Amtrak offerings have been closer to correct colors.   

I also have three K-Line F40PHs and they represent the later or phase II F40PH configuration.  The roof fans are shallower, sit in a a well, and there are some other minor variations.  K-Line got the front pilot steps correct and the colors are much better.  The sound on the early K-line units is generic rail sounds but if I cared that much about sound, I could upgrade.  The other downside on the K-Line units is the electro coupler sticks way out on the nose.  I plan on taking them off mine at some point and either putting in shorter manual couplers or Kadees.  The Lionel Legacy version closely aligns with the K-Line model.

As for GGD Amfleet II's the plan is to offer them at a later date after second run Amfleet I, Viewliner II, and Superline I cars have been manufactured and delivered.  There are plans to to do them however as well as plans to offer the Viewliner I sleepers as single car offerings at some point in the future.

@GG1 4877 posted:

The MTH F40PH represents the early configuration of F40PHs or sometimes referred to as a phase I F40PH (not to be confused with Amtrak paint phasing).  I have six of which three are Amtrak.  My complaint about the model is similar to my complaint about their Genesis.  The tooling is from the late 90's.  As a result there are many deficiencies on the model.  The pilot steps are incorrect, it rides high, and the paint colors are too dark.  One would assume that Atlas will get the colors correct as their Amtrak offerings have been closer to correct colors.   

I also have three K-Line F40PHs and they represent the later or phase II F40PH configuration.  The roof fans are shallower, sit in a a well, and there are some other minor variations.  K-Line got the front pilot steps correct and the colors are much better.  The sound on the early K-line units is generic rail sounds but if I cared that much about sound, I could upgrade.  The other downside on the K-Line units is the electro coupler sticks way out on the nose.  I plan on taking them off mine at some point and either putting in shorter manual couplers or Kadees.  The Lionel Legacy version closely aligns with the K-Line model.

As for GGD Amfleet II's the plan is to offer them at a later date after second run Amfleet I, Viewliner II, and Superline I cars have been manufactured and delivered.  There are plans to to do them however as well as plans to offer the Viewliner I sleepers as single car offerings at some point in the future.

The MTH F40PH was retooled in 2006 I believe.  The F40 from the 90s didn't have ditch lights or strobes to my knowledge.  Of course, the retooled version was only released with ditch lights..even when inappropriate.

The Proto 3 models were released with the correct colors (Except Phase IV) after Amtrak released its livery guide publicly.  The Phase III variant I have from the late 2010s is significantly nicer than the previous ones I have.  The swinging pilot is certainly less pronounced than MTH's P42 that's for sure.

I should mention, for a time, Amtrak was quite inconsistent with their colors.  One of the last NPCU converted F40PHs had Amtrak Deep Blue as the bottom stripe:

https://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=259848

I'm not sure if this caused confusion with MTH, but seeing that their R&D department was based out of Michigan, it's possible they used this particular NPCU based out of Michigan to match the paint. It certainly didn't help that the Phase III Genesis and B32-8WH used Deep Blue as opposed to the blue found on everything else.

MTH seemed to struggle with Phase II and III until 2013 or so.

You are not the only one!  I have pre-ordered two sets of Superliner I cars in phase III to go with my F40PH fleet and phase VI to go with my P42 pre-order.  I also have a phase III Slumbercoach on pre-order to start completing the Broadway Limited I rode in the late 1980's.

For those who have not seen this, the 3rd Rail website has been updated with graphics I prepared for Scott on the P42 schemes.  A few are missing and I will be getting those to him this weekend.  To be added are the P32s which will be tooled correctly for that model and include some of the commuter versions as well as the Empire Service Phase III Scheme.  As can be seen, as-delivered schemes as well as the 40th and 50th anniversary schemes are being offered as they have never been done correctly at this price point before.  The graphics shown are not painting diagrams and should just be considered marketing diagrams as the painting diagrams will be more refined once the project actually goes into formal design.

P42-Midnight-50thP42-Ph_I-40thP42-Ph_I-50thP42-Ph_III-40thP42-Ph_III-50thP42-Ph_IVP42-Ph_IV-40thP42-Ph_VP42-Ph_V-50thP42-Phs_VI-50th

Attachments

Images (10)
  • P42-Midnight-50th
  • P42-Ph_I-40th
  • P42-Ph_I-50th
  • P42-Ph_III-40th
  • P42-Ph_III-50th
  • P42-Ph_IV
  • P42-Ph_IV-40th
  • P42-Ph_V
  • P42-Ph_V-50th
  • P42-Phs_VI-50th

@GG1 4877 that's awesome!! Thank you for -posting! I don't mean to hi-jack those awesome P42 pictures that Jonathan just posted but I have two questions regarding GGD and it's ordering process:

1.) What does standby mean?

2.) In late August/ear;y September ordered an Amtrak Budd Slumber Coach when it was on standby, it's now on the website and no longer on standby. Should I alter my previous order and re-ordder it?



On another note, definitely looking at getting some superliner 1s now as I successfully converted a 21" K-line Superliner II Sleeper that I had bought from 2 rail to 3 rail, if only my transition sleeper was 21" and not 18"!

Thanks for the info on the F40PH.  I am trying to model what would have been used on the Crescent until 1993ish.  Per pic of us kids in 1990 chatting with the friendly engineer on the Crescent in Greenville SC and also peaking in the cab!   Regarding the Lionel F40PH, weren't they plagued with the wiring harness rubbing on the flywheel?

Amtrak Clemson to Gvl. June 1990 - 2Amtrak Clemson to Gvl. June 1990 - 3Amtrak Clemson to Gvl. June 1990 - 7

Attachments

Images (3)
  • Amtrak Clemson to Gvl. June 1990 - 2
  • Amtrak Clemson to Gvl. June 1990 - 3
  • Amtrak Clemson to Gvl. June 1990 - 7

I also have both the K-line F40PH(tmcc,rs,cruise), both the Lionel phase I F40PH w/ Amtrak Phase II paint and Lionel phase II F40PH w/ Amtrak Phase III and tomorrow should be receiving the NPCU. I agree that the the K-line Phase F40PH closely resembles the Lionel ph.2 F40Ph w/ Phase 3 paint(exception- the red stripe and partially the blue stripe). Lionel's product pages on the F40PH powered units actually mention "phase I and Phase II F40PH details..." which I think is cool. I'll add that I have a Railing proto 2 Amtrak PhIV F40PH and Premier proto 2 Surfliner F40PH- the PHIV looks better than the Atlas model shown(although it's obviously incomplete- I hope) and the Surfliner has prototypical horn placement- so, honestly I'm happy with both of my MTH F40PHs. Can't say the same for my NJ Transit p42, however

@P42Amtrak83 thank you for sharing that picture of that NPCU with the phase 3 paint and dark blue stripe. I had always kind of wished Lionel would've done the cabbage in a Phase IV or later scheme because that's what we see on the rails today regarding NPCUs. I understand why Lionel wouldn't do a Ph IV or later when their powered units are Phase II & III paint paint. Regardless , despite the blue stripe, Im happy to see a prototype NPCU in Phase III.  

@Mike W. if you do a search you'll find threads regarding the initial shipment of Lionel's F40PHs and their issues. I Know there was something with wiring that after the first run would cause the unit to short, also believe there was an electro coupler issue that caused the same effect as well. I bought my Lionel Phase II paint scheme new and my Phase III used/LN(both over the last 7 months) and haven't had problems with either of them except for lower diesel exhaust output on the later.

@StevefromPA posted:

@GG1 4877 that's awesome!! Thank you for -posting! I don't mean to hi-jack those awesome P42 pictures that Jonathan just posted but I have two questions regarding GGD and it's ordering process:

1.) What does standby mean?

2.) In late August/ear;y September ordered an Amtrak Budd Slumber Coach when it was on standby, it's now on the website and no longer on standby. Should I alter my previous order and re-ordder it?



On another note, definitely looking at getting some superliner 1s now as I successfully converted a 21" K-line Superliner II Sleeper that I had bought from 2 rail to 3 rail, if only my transition sleeper was 21" and not 18"!

Standby means that should a reservation not be picked up by a customer, that product will be released in order of reservations on the stand-by list.  Just like the airliners.

I'd send an email to Scott or Shani at 3rd Rail and follow-up on your status.  As I understand it, the Slumbercoaches are still open for reservations.  They have not gone to design yet.

@GG1 4877 posted:

...

For those who have not seen this, the 3rd Rail website has been updated with graphics I prepared for Scott on the P42 schemes.  A few are missing and I will be getting those to him this weekend.  To be added are the P32s which will be tooled correctly for that model and include some of the commuter versions as well as the Empire Service Phase III Scheme.  As can be seen, as-delivered schemes as well as the 40th and 50th anniversary schemes are being offered as they have never been done correctly at this price point before.  The graphics shown are not painting diagrams and should just be considered marketing diagrams as the painting diagrams will be more refined once the project actually goes into formal design.

...

P40s or P32DMs not P32s.   Scott has never made and at this time has no plans to make P32s or any other Dash8 diesels.

Last edited by rdunniii
@Will Ebbert posted:

The K Line cars are Phase IV, but there aren't transition sleepers in this GGD offering as Scott is doing Superliner Is right now and the transition cars are IIs.

To add to this, the K-Line cars are Superliner IIs and they did make a transition car.  The biggest challenge is finding them at a price that is remotely competitive.  The last one to sell on that auction site went for more than the cost of a new GGD car.  K-Line offered transition coach, coach, diner, and sleeper configurations for their Superliner IIs.  The coaches come up most commonly and are least expensive.  The other cars regularly sell for over $350 each.  For that price I can be patient and wait for GGD Superliner IIs.

In addition to that, the finishing on the K-Line seems off. It doesn't look like stainless steel. It's certainly not at the level of quality from GGD...even if the price points are the same.

Without seeing what GGD has in store, I'd speculated that there'd be a noticable difference between GGD's cars and K Line's cars and would stick out quite noticably.

The lack of a lounge car from K Line is a bigger issue too. I'm very excited for the GGD versions with 9 cars ordered. When they offer the Superliner IIs I'll probably order 7 of them for two complete trains of mixed equipment.

I also agree that the finish on the K Line cars isn't very impressive but I expected to repaint mine anyway into phase VI. Here's a comparison of the two manufacturers silver. GGD has a warmer hue to it that picks up light better in my opinion. Screenshot_20211208-205732_Gallery

Attachments

Images (1)
  • Screenshot_20211208-205732_Gallery
@P42Amtrak83 posted:

In addition to that, the finishing on the K-Line seems off. It doesn't look like stainless steel. It's certainly not at the level of quality from GGD...even if the price points are the same.

Without seeing what GGD has in store, I'd speculated that there'd be a noticable difference between GGD's cars and K Line's cars and would stick out quite noticably.

I don't disagree at all.  The GGD cars will be a generational improvement over the K-Line ones.

I am having a hard time mating GGD Amfleets to MTH coaches; the latter seem but toys by comparison.  Even the Atlas Horizons don't quite compare, though they are of much closer quality.

I guess I am a GGD snob now; the Amfleets look fabulous with the Atlas AEM7s.  Now let's do the slumber coaches and then baggage cars after that.

@Pantenary posted:

I am having a hard time mating GGD Amfleets to MTH coaches; the latter seem but toys by comparison.  Even the Atlas Horizons don't quite compare, though they are of much closer quality.

I guess I am a GGD snob now; the Amfleets look fabulous with the Atlas AEM7s.  Now let's do the slumber coaches and then baggage cars after that.

Speaking of Slumbercoaches, how are they reserving? I can't get an answer from Scott which can equate to low reservations currently.

@GG1 4877 posted:

Exclusive here.  You won't see this from Atlas's Railking Scale line.   It will be up on the website by the end of the weekend along with a few other P32 offerings.

P42-Ph_III_Empire

CCAL doesn't have the capital for an additional locomotive (I ordered 3 -that's alotta $$$), but I will definitely amend my current reservation once this is available. I'm kicking that Phase V model off in favor of this much-needed Empire Service model. This is a big deal for me.

I'm currently using plain ol' Phase V P42's by MTH. Although I look forward to the GGD models, I have to defend the Atlas/MTH P42's. The last few runs are not as bad as people have commented here. No, they aren't up to GGD standards, but the most recent ones aren't "railking at the premier price."
There are actually 3 different MTH Premier P42's. The PS3 models are pretty great. The earlier ones from 1998 are pretty bad. The PS2 versions are fine. All are better than those goofy Williams/Bachman models.

I'll make a case for Williams too. For now, it's the only P40 out there. I have one to pull my Three Rivers train for a while and then I switch to my goofy E60.

Last edited by CharmCityAirLine
@Will Ebbert posted:

What are the external differences between a P40 and a P42?

The only external differences are with Phase III.

The Phase III P40DCs had two strobe lights and an emergency blinker above the cab.  The rear of the locomotive had a window next to the door.

The P40s also had the "fade away" stripe as well as black trim around the front windows.  The gap between those windows was also painted black.

The physical differences were eliminated during their first maintenance cycle...most received Phase IV paint during the overhaul.

In subsequent schemes, the only visible differences are thicker window gaskets around the front windshields.

@P42Amtrak83 posted:

The only external differences are with Phase III.

The Phase III P40DCs had two strobe lights and an emergency blinker above the cab.  The rear of the locomotive had a window next to the door.

The P40s also had the "fade away" stripe as well as black trim around the front windows.  The gap between those windows was also painted black.

The physical differences were eliminated during their first maintenance cycle...most received Phase IV paint during the overhaul.

In subsequent schemes, the only visible differences are thicker window gaskets around the front windshields.

One of my "when I get around to it" projects is to cut out the recesses molded into the Williams model and install real "eyebrow" strobes.

I know it was covered but I'm unclear on the Transition car that's now available:

Is this a "fantasy" Superliner I Transition Car- basically taking a Superliner II transition car and imposing it on the superliner I? Is this like an el-Capitan step-down?

I know Scott has said that Superliner IIs are going to be produced and there will be a transition car. I already have a 21" Superliner Sleeper(K-line) and an 18" Transition(K-line) but would like to replace that with a prototypical transition and fill out my Superliner consist with a combo of Super Is and Super IIs.

Help/assistance/clarification would be greatly appreciated!!!

@Will Ebbert posted:

I believe before the arrival of the Superliner IIs in real life, the old Hi Level transition cars were used and that is what is being modeled, so it is prototypical for early trains.

This is correct.  Several El Capitan cars were upgraded to HEP and run with Superliners prior to the introduction of the Superliner II cars.  This included coaches, lounge cars, diners, and coaches that were converted to coach / dorm transition cars.  The single level El Capitan dorm with the streamlined roof profile that matched the Budd El Cap cars was retired with the introduction of the Superliner fleet.

Former El Cap coach / dorms had a few configurations.  One, which GGD is offering had the crew beds on the lower level of the car.  The other configuration utilized the front half of the transition coach as the dormitory space, while the rear half of the upper level had coach seats.

When I rode the Southwest Chief in the late 80's and early 90's the train always had a former El Cap transition dorm behind the baggage car and ocassionally had former El Cap coach, lounge, or diner in the mix with the Superliner I cars.

Last edited by GG1 4877

Awesome! Thanks @Will Ebbert and @GG1 4877 !

You guys answered my questions, but I should've clarified what I meant by prototypical a bit more and been more straight to the point:

1.) Will this  transition car be the similar outwardly to the one previously produced by GGD as stated in this 2015 ad ? Or look like the ones after question 2?(with the exception of the paint schemes)

2.) The Hi-level's were slightly but noticeably shorter in height than Superliners, will the GGD transition car reflect that height as shown in pictures below?

Transition Hi-level coach/dorm with HEP in the middle, Superliner on the right(Nov. 1981)- from Hebner'sAMT Hi-level trans w: sup1 & baggage or power car

Better pic-Superliner 1 on left(height difference), Hi-Level 39901 coach dorm in center, single level heritage on the right(year unknown.) from Hebner's

Amt 39991 HEP Transition w: Super1 & single level

The one below now in excursion service but has the paint scheme that would've matched with the single level baggage dorm(from Michigansteamtrain.com)

Amt Hi-level 39906 Transition excursion

Attachments

Images (4)
  • AMT Hi-level transiton with coach
  • AMT Hi-level trans w: sup1 &amp; baggage or power car
  • Amt 39991 HEP Transition w: Super1 &amp; single level
  • Amt Hi-level 39906 Transition excursion

Since we have been discussing the new Atlas F40PH's.  Now that Lionel has reissued the same but with the fuel tank placement towards the rear, can this fuel tank placement still be seen on long distance trains of the east and west throughout the 80's and early 90's in Phase III Paint?  I like the proportions of the Lionel F40PH better than the Atlas versions.  But the New Atlas ones do have the forward fuel tank.  I am anxiously awaiting my GGD 3/4 Amtrak Brass Dome car.  And will add this into the new Lionel Heritage set with finally a smooth sided coach.  Will interchange this with the Lionel F40PH's and the SDP40Fs from 3rd Rail when it is eventually offered for reservations. 

@StevefromPA posted:

Awesome! Thanks @Will Ebbert and @GG1 4877 !

You guys answered my questions, but I should've clarified what I meant by prototypical a bit more and been more straight to the point:

1.) Will this  transition car be the similar outwardly to the one previously produced by GGD as stated in this 2015 ad ? Or look like the ones after question 2?(with the exception of the paint schemes)

2.) The Hi-level's were slightly but noticeably shorter in height than Superliners, will the GGD transition car reflect that height as shown in pictures below?

Transition Hi-level coach/dorm with HEP in the middle, Superliner on the right(Nov. 1981)- from Hebner'sAMT Hi-level trans w: sup1 & baggage or power car

Better pic-Superliner 1 on left(height difference), Hi-Level 39901 coach dorm in center, single level heritage on the right(year unknown.) from Hebner's

Amt 39991 HEP Transition w: Super1 & single level

The one below now in excursion service but has the paint scheme that would've matched with the single level baggage dorm(from Michigansteamtrain.com)

Amt Hi-level 39906 Transition excursion

Somehow, I missed this post.  As your photos show, there are several variations on the baggage dorm cars rebuilt from former El Capitan cars.  Right now, there have been no decisions on which version will be done, but once the project becomes closer to actual design there will be more information available.  If I were to hazard a guess, and this is a guess only, the actual car will be a coach-dorm where the dormitory section is on the lower level as opposed to the bottom photo where the there is a half coach section on the upper level and the dorm section on the upper level in the forward half of the car.

@Mike W. posted:

Since we have been discussing the new Atlas F40PH's.  Now that Lionel has reissued the same but with the fuel tank placement towards the rear, can this fuel tank placement still be seen on long distance trains of the east and west throughout the 80's and early 90's in Phase III Paint?  I like the proportions of the Lionel F40PH better than the Atlas versions.  But the New Atlas ones do have the forward fuel tank.  I am anxiously awaiting my GGD 3/4 Amtrak Brass Dome car.  And will add this into the new Lionel Heritage set with finally a smooth sided coach.  Will interchange this with the Lionel F40PH's and the SDP40Fs from 3rd Rail when it is eventually offered for reservations.

Yes, several of the "phase 1" F40PHs lasted into the '90s. By phase 1, I mean the first order of F40PHs, not their paint scheme. Phase 1 had the aft tanks. Phase 1 units were numbered in the low 200s and I have seen photos of them pulling Amtrak, MBTA, and MetroNorth trains wearing their pretty phase III outfits. Here is a link to one pulling the pre-Superliner Capitol Limited.
Lionel's Legacy Amtrak #206

Sadly, I missed on the first run of GGD Amfleets and Viewliners. For the most part, by the time I found the "remaining stock", most of what I would've wanted was gone. Except for this....

IMG_0254

My first GGD item- totally worth it!! Phase VI Amfleet Diner...Can't wait to pair it with something besides Phase 3 Horizons, 2 Phase IV Superliners(the transition is only 18") and/or K-line Heritage cars(Phase VI just doesn't look great with it...)

Also, on the subject of dome cars, while not nearly as cool as the 3/4 dome pics I've seen- picked up this K-Line Heritage

K-line Amtrak Heritage Vista Dome and Lionel PH3 NPCU

Just thought I'd share. Thanks Scott Mann and everyone at 3rd Rail/GGD!!!

Attachments

Images (2)
  • IMG_0254
  • K-line Amtrak Heritage Vista Dome and Lionel PH3 NPCU

As far as the GGD Superliners, I have some questions about the Sightseer Lounge phase III paint scheme.   There were 2 styles on this car.  The original phase 3 Sightseer paint had the 3 stripes angle up and follow the window line and drop back down at the other end of the car.   Later some Sightseer cars would be painted with the phase III  stripes running straight across the car just like the rest of the consist.  I believe the change happened later as cars needed repainted.  I prefer that the models have the stripes that bump up to follow the window line.  Wondering which GGD plans to produce.

Last edited by VistaDomeScott

As far as the GGD Superliners, I have some questions about the Sightseer Lounge phase III paint scheme.   There were 2 styles on this car.  The original phase 3 Sightseer paint had the 3 stripes angle up and follow the window line and drop back down at the other end of the car.   Later some Sightseer cars would be painted with the phase III  stripes running straight across the car just like the rest of the consist.  I believe the change happened later as cars needed repainted.  I prefer that the models have the stripes that bump up to follow the window line.  Wondering which GGD plans to produce.

Whatever one(s) get sufficient reservations.  OBTW, if you don't know then Scott doesn't know either.  This project is far enough down the line that Jonathan has not started the artwork yet and he will notice the differences and ask for advise.

@rdunniii posted:

Whatever one(s) get sufficient reservations.  OBTW, if you don't know then Scott doesn't know either.  This project is far enough down the line that Jonathan has not started the artwork yet and he will notice the differences and ask for advise.

Only putting the matter out here for conversation and future planning and discussion.   Lots of cash outlay with these  if I maintain my order. I prefer to get ideas or issues into the discussion ahead of the curve.

Last edited by VistaDomeScott
@VGN64 posted:

Judging by the Amfleet Is and Viewliners I can't see Scott not doing the Amfleet IIs and Superliners.  There is inflation, supply chain and the effect the Ukraine will have on our dealings with China.  I don't envy Scott's position at all.

Never say never.  The supply chain challenges and inflation will eventually resolve themselves as they always do.   When it comes to manufacturing overseas, business is business.  The mighty greenback speaks every language. (....well except for one that does not need mentioning on a train forum...)

Based on other projects currently in design and / or production I fully believe we will see these products.  Especially true considering design and manufacturing is a multi-year process and economic / geopolitical issues will always be different between then and now.

Add Reply

Post

OGR Publishing, Inc., 1310 Eastside Centre Ct, Suite 6, Mountain Home, AR 72653
800-980-OGRR (6477)
www.ogaugerr.com

×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×
×