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We are considering re-releasing some of our famous trains of the past in Aluminum. And due to our ability to make smaller runs in these trains, how popular do you think 18" Shorties in Aluminum would be with all the trimmings? (Flush Windows, Full Interiors with LED Lighting, 10 Figures / car, 042 Compatible, ball bearing journals on every car?

Yes, we would still make the same trains in full Scale Length, at the same time. Just 2 styles, Shorties and Scale.

Considering The Following:

1948 20TH CENTURY LTD. (8 Car Set) + Extras

1948 BROADWAY LTD.  (8 Car Set) + Extras

SP DAYLIGHT WITH ARTICULATED CARS. (10 Car Set), 5 Articulated, 5 Regular.

What yee say to that?

One thing, the cost and the prices would be the same as the full length scale cars we have been offering about $285 / car. Just making them to run on smaller layouts for thee.

Last edited by sdmann
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Unfortunately, they don't work on regular cars only articulated cars. The problem is that on regular cars the ends of the cars move sideways to each other much more than a diaphragm can displace. The articulated cars pivot on a common center point so the diaphragms always maintain alignment. But these would be great for display for regular cars.

I'll consider making them widely available.

Hm, mixed emotions here.
Good to hear about ability to make quick turns/production runs going forward.

Less enthused because none of these are for me since I'm fortunate to have these consists already. Although mine is the '38 Century Limited. It did take some time to acquire them.  But very glad to have them.

Frankly, GGD/Sunset is my preferred producer of scale models. I love finding out about new announcements, as rare as they may be. Certainly makes them more exciting when they do happen!
It'd be great to hear about something new coming out. But understand the need to get products out in order to keep the gears of the business machine greased...
As much as I'd like to say give something new a shot: You should still do these!
Everyone should have the opportunity to have a set (or two, or three) of GGD cars in their collection!
And these consists really do represent some of the finer products done in the past and, in some cases (SP Daylight) are the  non-cost prohibitive/realistically obtainable standard for these consists in this hobby.


That would be outstanding!! I'm in for the 20th Century and the Daylight.. and if you were to do an El Cap in 18" I'm all over it. 

The 21" cars are beautiful and no one does them better than you but they are just too big for my layout and most of the average sized layouts out there. Lionel has pretty much abandoned the 18" market and the few sets made by MTH are all plastic. I believe there is a large market for that size car especially if made from ALUMINUM!


Last edited by RD
rex desilets posted:

Mixed feelings. 3rd Rail, GGD have provided us with models as close to perfect scale as achievable at a reasonable price. Making shorty passenger cars degrades that reputation.


How?    It's not as if he is advertising one thing and sending something different.   Yes, the scale stuff is magnificent.     I see no issue with the shorter cars, with same level of scale detail.

I know of at least 2 other importer/manufactures in 3 Rail O Scale, one known for their scale accuracy in O Scale 2Rail, who puts out models in 2 levels of detail / accuracy. I don't see that they have diminished their reputation for scale accuracy in the former. I just need to make it clear in Logos and words, GGD for O42... and that should tell the customer what to expect.

I also imagine the customer with the smaller space layout enjoying their engines pulling crappy cars with no interiors and completely incorrect details, or those bulging windows and totally wrong window configs and the such, enjoying a near scale model for their layout, with good lighting, interiors and figures. I bet 1/3 of our potential customers have this issue preventing them from buying the full size cars. If I have a minimum at the factory for so many cars per project, this could put us over the limits we need to get you scale guys what you want too. That's my thoughts on the subject.

And thanks for all the advise. It's what I asked for. Some times you like it, sometimes you don't but it's you the customer that matters.



Last edited by sdmann

Remakes in 18" of some of the earlier passenger trains offered by GGD seems like a brilliant idea.  I would think those would sell well for the reasons identified in this thread.  And if they could be reissued in 21" too at the same time, that would be great for those who may have missed out on the first run.  The resale prices on the GGD aluminum cars is high, when you can find them, so there appears to be a demand for the previously issued 21" trains.

Too....mixed emotions... don't want to have to question the scale accuracy of a brand, where some makers only offer "fantasy" rolling stock: out of scale, bad models, Santa Fe lettered N5C's, etc.  Not pleased to read some Atlas reefers might be "fantasy" cars, when l've read that the pot for prototype billboard reefers has barely been skimmed.  But...if the market is are not a charity and should meet the demand.  No interest to me....unless market opens up for other roadnames..

All the other manufacturers are making 72' passenger cars so unless their buyers want these prototypical cars I think there would be a limited market for these cars UNLESS they were some unique offerings.

I'm into PRR so I've always hoped that GGD would make the P54 series cars in plastic.  I have the brass versions that 3rdRail did many years ago.


OK, this response is only meant with the best intentions, as some of you I respect very much.

However… some of the responses seem to think “fantasy” or non-scale is relegated only to the 3 rail, O gauge market. Me seems to think you have NOT walked the halls of the O scale March Meet in Chicago.

Walking the isles at the March meet and will see “fantasy” non-scale or hideously detailed “models”. Yes, they do operate on two rails, but please, this is NOT a true scale show or gauge by any means.

Some of you have mentioned (in other threads) that the HO guys seem to be free from the fantasy issue; again, I would say you are sorely mistaken. Yes, there are a few manufactures that are only scale, but the vast majority rebadge (as close as possible) existing models to feed a larger market and get more out of the tooling/project.

Escaperocks alluded to this earlier, Scott is not trying to market a bait-and-switch situation, but rather an alternative to other options where he thinks the market is lacking.

In my opinion, there are many engines that are sitting without a passenger train to pull and why should Scott not try to capture part of that market?

My one concern for success for this program, is that I suspect enough people will balk at the price… not because of the dollar amount, but because it will be too close to the price of the scale counterpart. Since the cars could be construed as non-scale or “lesser” then scale, some people will feel the price should also be less.

Maybe the answer is to raise the price of the scale cars to create a tiered pricing structure.

If a 1938 20th Century with blue stripes is ever in the works I would be a customer. I have a nice Dreyfuss Hudson sitting in a box with nothing to pull.


One thing to consider is hobbyists who would be interested in shorter cars for tighter curves have those tighter curves because of space restrictions. As such they might not be able to fit an 8-10 car train on their layout. If you go through with making shorter cars you may want to consider a base set with 4-5 cars, with the rest as separate sale.  

I've read that there were a number of railroads that had at least some streamlined passenger cars less than 85', among them Southern Pacific, Santa Fe, and B&O. I think many (and probably most by a significant margin) operators out there have layouts too small for 21" cars; the 18" versions would be welcome. Just because people don't have a huge layout doesn't mean they wouldn't like to run highly detailed trains. Lionel will probably eventually make more 18" cars, but they will be in plastic, so it seems there would be a good market for aluminum versions.

"Scale length" arguments are lost on those who simply don't have the room. You have to get real; you can only run what you can run.

Last edited by breezinup
RoyBoy posted:

How about making some silver cars with no names on them? They could run with a majority of locomotives.

That would be great for those who have stockpiled decals and can create their own fleet or favorite roads. IF I have the decals, I would love this since I can make ACL, SAL, Southern or SCL lettered cars depending on the era I choose. I wonder if Scott could ever have custom decals made for say 5-10 of the major railroads to sell with these cars? 

Years ago I decided to go with scale length cars so this suggestion doesn't appeal to me but I'm sure the shorter cars would meet a need for modelers with smaller layouts. However, a lot would depend on the aesthetics of how the shortening was done. Do you make the windows more narrow and keep the correct window layout or do you reduce the number of windows? It would be interesting to see a drawing of a full scale car and its shortened cousin side by side.

Would shortened cars appeal to the 2 rail scale folks at all?


I believe space more than price is the reason for many taking a pass on 21" cars.

I would love to have scale detailed aluminum passenger cars compressed to a size I could run. You could make a case that there are more small to midsize layouts than those large enough to make those 21" behemoths look good. If the value is there which I'm sure it would be as with anything Scott makes the market will be there also.  IMHO


Har!  I was in HO, and it was....dunno if still is ..cluttered with all kinds of fantasy cars, and locos...same caboose problem with plastic molds of NE cabooses lettered for coast to coast roads and probably CP, CN, and NdeM.  Uh..l didn't like them then, either.  I keep that in mind when l get sneered at for being in three rail by an HO "scale modeler". Other roadnames may come if these are successful, and l and others will shop...

Since we are talking different length cars what about 27" cars for those with really large radii curves? 

Seriously a great business decision.  Aluminum extruded cars lend themselves to being made in multiple lengths once the extrusion is completed.  I love my scale length cars, but I know everyone is different.  It might even work to offer 15" cars?   GGD-036?

What about taking the most popular of the streamline cars (by actual use) and make them in 18" size? This would allow 10-6 sleepers, 36 or 48 seat diners or other sleeper variations. Standard seat coaches would be nice too.

Could offer each car in 5-10 roadnames spanning east to west. I would really like super detailed dining cars for a train since they would have the most interior detail visible through the windows (image each table with full place settings).

If anything, modelers can purchase a few cars to match with their current roster to make a more prototypical train. 

Last edited by Larry Neal

I would like to add my thanks for considering those of us who have smaller layouts with sharper radii curves.  I would venture to say that the majority of us 3 railers can't run the scale length passenger equipment and that the 18" cars are a great compromise between the full scale and the shorty 15" versions.  I am looking forward to seeing GGD's 18" passenger car offerings!

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