These days I’m running such a small layout, the large scale stuff is out of the question as well as the price. I still have most of my postwar stuff, but decided to make the current layout mostly LionChief. It’s much easier for my kids to operate, even my 2 year old and I’m all about getting them involved. Besides, kids being kids is much easier to take on a 200$ LionChief engine than an expensive postwar item. The kids also enjoy the sounds. Even though the trains are traditional size, I think you can mask a lot of that with realistic scenery.
Christopher2035 posted:Even though the trains are traditional size, I think you can mask a lot of that with realistic scenery.
As you have amply proven as evidenced by your photos I shared above. Here's another of your photos that you shared years ago that I've saved:
Though "technically" the Lionel NW2 is very near scale in overall proportions... the original model was still aimed at the "toy" market so its details and such are impressionistic. Anyway, the above photo still illustrates your point nicely: Toy trains on good looking scenery = nice result!
Andre
Attachments
laming posted:Christopher2035 posted:Even though the trains are traditional size, I think you can mask a lot of that with realistic scenery.
As you have amply proven as evidenced by your photos I shared above. Here's another of your photos that you shared years ago that I've saved:
Though "technically" the Lionel NW2 is very near scale in overall proportions... the original model was still aimed at the "toy" market so its details and such are impressionistic. Anyway, the above photo still illustrates your point nicely: Toy trains on good looking scenery = nice result!
Andre
That switcher screams the 1970's and MPC! Lionel had many locomotives in CS colors!
From the FWIW Dept....
Back a couple years ago I seriously looked at just building the "Kansas City Lines" concept mentioned above and being done with it. (Bypassing HO.)
I was a bit concerned finding a "traditional sized" switch engine for use switching the KC industries I would design into the layout. My "go to" was going to be the RMT "Bang" (nee K-Line/Marx) S-2. Having owned one back during my great experiments, they ran surprisingly good on my old ZW and figured they would be very smooth and nice using more modern controls. (I intended to go wireless walk around.)
Only thing that bothered me a bit about the Bang was that it was almost too "traditional". That is, the body looked awfully short. Well, this morning I received an email from RMT announcing to the modeling world that they have miraculously found a few more Bang diesels out in that, what must be an incredibly large and disorganized, warehouse. (Sort of like the parting scene in Raiders Of The Lost Arc.)
Upon seeing the side shots of the two road names, I thought "hmmmm. I wonder?"
SO, after a quick patch job in my photo software, I experimented to see what a Bang would look like if the cab was moved back and the end of the cab flushed as an S-2 should be. Here's a pic (stock on the top, stretched on the bottom) to illustrate. Looked nice...
Whether it would have been worth the trouble and expense (it would take two shells per engine) is dubious at best. BUT, it was a fun experiment that didn't cost me a red cent.
I had in mind using Bang's (a couple) to be the power my own freelance "Kansas City Belt" switching railroad, and the Kansas City Belt rails would play host to other KC lines moving about the city (as was the case on the prototype Kansas City Terminal). It could have been a ton of fun!
Andre
Attachments
Christopher (or anyone else that knows): Are the bodies for the cheap NW2's the same length as the scale? I've considered swapping some out (I know it'll take a little fitting) with a couple of beat-up SF 622's if they are, but I never remember to take measurements before going to a meet, and I'm too much of a tightwad to want to buy without knowing.
That said, like Andre, I've always enjoyed your layouts. Got any new photos?
I realize this is off topic but that modified Bang diesel looks like a great candidate for all of the upgrades @gunrunnerjohn made to his PRR Beep provided all the necessary electronics are still available.
For anyone interested, here is a thread on the PRR Beep Upgrades.
Note that the BANG has cogging motors that don't work well with back-EMF cruise, just a warning... I tried a Cruise Commander in one, and low speed performance was pretty bad.
artyoung posted:Christopher (or anyone else that knows): Are the bodies for the cheap NW2's the same length as the scale? I've considered swapping some out (I know it'll take a little fitting) with a couple of beat-up SF 622's if they are, but I never remember to take measurements before going to a meet, and I'm too much of a tightwad to want to buy without knowing.
That said, like Andre, I've always enjoyed your layouts. Got any new photos?
Are you talking about the legacy ones? If so, I would suspect not. I believe the hood was a bit too wide on the PW NW2. The mountings would also be different. I should have some new photos soon. With being home 24/7 now with the kids, it has given me renewed interest to just get the layout done - I need something to do!
laming posted:Christopher2035 posted:Even though the trains are traditional size, I think you can mask a lot of that with realistic scenery.
As you have amply proven as evidenced by your photos I shared above. Here's another of your photos that you shared years ago that I've saved:
Though "technically" the Lionel NW2 is very near scale in overall proportions... the original model was still aimed at the "toy" market so its details and such are impressionistic. Anyway, the above photo still illustrates your point nicely: Toy trains on good looking scenery = nice result!
Andre
Exactly! I'm glad you liked some of my shots enough to refer to them 
To me, part of the hobby is imagination and with nice scenery, even an 027 steamer can seem larger than life & close to the real thing if you use a bit of imagination
gunrunnerjohn posted:Note that the BANG has cogging motors that don't work well with back-EMF cruise, just a warning... I tried a Cruise Commander in one, and low speed performance was pretty bad.
Should have suspected that you had already attempted an upgrade of a BANG. Sorry about that.
I still love running any Lionel trains be they PW or “modern” with TMCC or Legacy. My 2 biggest thrills were 1) in 1960’s seeing Gargraves 3 rail track and switches with more closely realistic wooden rails & ties. 2) The Holy Grail for me of controlling multiple trains on the same track without electrical blocks arrived with TMCC.
In late 1960’s I had modified each side of my ZW transformer with big diodes to match 2 modified PW trains with big diodes with opposite polarities — this allowed me to control 2 trains on same track. ( Had to disconnect whistle features, but overall worked pretty well).
Similar to some previous posts above, I have had no TMCC / Legacy failures, so continue to enjoy true wireless controls of my trains.
Carl J
IMO, post war Lionel represents a simpler time in our life when electric trains were part of our Christmas season fun. As time progressed innovations took us from simple to improved to high tech. I have gone back to the older stuff just a bit but can't ignore running improvements. The newer rolling stock with the fast angle wheels run far smoother and you can pull longer consists with them. DC motors have brought us better scale speed operation but the older engines can be tuned to run pretty well. I believe that the best layout would have a combination of the old and the new.
My main problem with the new stuff is the sound systems. I'm old enough to have heard many steam engines in the 50's and diesels of the 60's, and I have a good memory for them. The model sound systems rarely sound right. The only railroad where I've heard realistic sound is an outdoor railroad in Fn3 on an acre of wooded land.
The most consistent problem is that both steam and diesel have a steady sound that is proportional to speed. That wasn't true then of real railroads and isn't today. A diesel going up grade would be in the eighth notch. At the top of a hill, he'd cut back several notches and the speed would increase - opposite of what model sound does. Coming into a station, the train would be coasting for the last quarter or half mile - no engine sound at all and not proportional to speed.
Another problem is the volume. When running a model railroad, our view is what a railfan sitting on a nearby hill might see, but the sound is that of being next to the train. Being able to hear the sound from many trains at one time is totally unrealistic.
One of the reasons that I've stopped attending operating sessions at my model railroad club is too much sound that destroys the illusion of seeing just the part of the railroad where I am. Much better to have no sound at all and imagine the correct sounds.
I could say more about caboose, dining car and station sounds, but I think this rant has gone far enough. Back to my basement of trains free of modern electronic inconveniences.
For O Scale I am 95% postwar, some of it remnants of my childhood trains. The non postwar pieces are Lionel Postwar Celebration pieces, Like the 164 Log Loader, Culver Loader, Fire Car, And Navy Missile engine that run as good or better than there Postwar counterparts. I have a nice layout that features most of the postwar Accessories that I enjoy just running with few issues. If I want DCC, I can run my N Scale layout but since I work with computers all day, some days I just want to come home and run trains “old School”
gunrunnerjohn posted:I'm on the other side of the fence. The command stuff with all the whistles and bells is what sucked me back in, I love it! It helps that I can fix it if it breaks...
Ditto! The best thing that ever happened to toy trains...
ZWPOWER13 posted:I wonder if anyone out there is like me....
I have collected so much postwar, amassed just about the entire high end line of MPC, (Engines, Sets) LTI and TMCC engines and sets, and the entire PWC and CC series, I have also collected some Legacy Engines, and all of the Scale Premium Freight Sets from the past 20 years. I have been collecting Lionel since I was 10 ( I am now 43) But I am getting the bug of going back to focusing on the older items again. I like the new items, and love my entire collection, and with some of the premium freight sets, ( Coal Trains, Tank Trains, Auto Rack Trains, etc) area actually the trains I see on the lines here in South Eastern PA on the NS and CSX Lines which is why I collected them, But with more and more newer items coming out, I am finding that its just too much.
I am Lionel 100% (some AF as well) but just how many SD70ACE, ES44AC, etc do we really need? Its nice having different road names, other then the big Class 1 railroads, but the scale stuff is just starting to not feel like Lionel O Gauge Anymore, I love my operating accessories, and my complete postwar Plasticville collection (over 400 pieces with all variations) but the scale stuff is starting to not to appeal to me as much anymore, and i am afraid of the electronics going bad...I know the upgrades for TMCC are available, to repair older units, but what about Legacy??
Dont get me wrong, I love Lionel and I am glad they are still producing great items, but with quality control, things not working out of the box etc, I am hesitant on pre-ordering anymore, and the recent price for the Postwar Inspired items, especially the Santa Fe set, is just crazy.....Everyday, The older keep calling me back! I will always be a collector.......Has anyone else felt this way?
Sorry for the long post....I guess being bored and working from home has got me thinking.....
Sounds like you got a case of o gauge burn out.The only cure is time and maybe step back for a bit.And keep in mind this is just a hobby.Take a breath and run your older stuff if you like.Heck I still have my very first railking erie berkshire.I take it out every now and then.
My trains date from 1995 on, only bought new. I now own 1/20th of what I used to, but it's what I am really happy with. Did order the Lionel 120 year Santa Fe set & the Star Trek set ( I always liked sets).
Now I got the Tinplate bug so I'm buying new O gauge & Standard gauge trains for my last layout.
mlaughlinnyc posted:My main problem with the new stuff is the sound systems. I'm old enough to have heard many steam engines in the 50's and diesels of the 60's, and I have a good memory for them. The model sound systems rarely sound right. The only railroad where I've heard realistic sound is an outdoor railroad in Fn3 on an acre of wooded land.
The most consistent problem is that both steam and diesel have a steady sound that is proportional to speed. That wasn't true then of real railroads and isn't today. A diesel going up grade would be in the eighth notch. At the top of a hill, he'd cut back several notches and the speed would increase - opposite of what model sound does. Coming into a station, the train would be coasting for the last quarter or half mile - no engine sound at all and not proportional to speed.
Another problem is the volume. When running a model railroad, our view is what a railfan sitting on a nearby hill might see, but the sound is that of being next to the train. Being able to hear the sound from many trains at one time is totally unrealistic.
One of the reasons that I've stopped attending operating sessions at my model railroad club is too much sound that destroys the illusion of seeing just the part of the railroad where I am. Much better to have no sound at all and imagine the correct sounds.
I could say more about caboose, dining car and station sounds, but I think this rant has gone far enough. Back to my basement of trains free of modern electronic inconveniences.
Ok. I'll take over for you.
I agree with all you've said. And those engineer and station announcements......oh my goodness. Hoky . Cheesy. Annoying.
Sorry to those that have them. My opinion really means nothing. I promise. Just ask my whole family!
I have a few older MTH PS-1's, the engine sounds and bell/ horns are fine, the crew announcements are cringe worthy.....
Hi Christopher: I should have been more clear, I'd like to mount an MPC body onto the Postwar 622. I know I'll need to put the older clips onto the MPC shell, but I can take them off the postwar shell. Thanks.
Sorry for the hijack.
MattR posted:I agree with all you've said. And those engineer and station announcements......oh my goodness. Hoky . Cheesy. Annoying.
I agree there. That's why I either turn them off or never activate them. I don't want my trains talking to me.
artyoung posted:Hi Christopher: I should have been more clear, I'd like to mount an MPC body onto the Postwar 622. I know I'll need to put the older clips onto the MPC shell, but I can take them off the postwar shell. Thanks.
Sorry for the hijack.
Yes, that would work. It’s the same shell except for the mounting.
When I started into model trains for my young family to enjoy them at Christmas, the old stuff was all we had in 1976. The new stuff in1976 was available but so was the postwar stuff.
In all the 40 plus years since I have not seen any reason to trade the old postwar stuff in for the newest, greatest, expensive, and hard to repair new stuff that has paraded into fashion for many, both old and young over the years.
Two major things are one, Cost: new engines cost from a few hundred, to $1000 and now even $2000, at the same time prices of the old postwar stuff is low with most of my engines costing $20 to $40 with a few for $10 and one at $100.
The second thing is train gear must repairable by me. Trains with modern electronics are sensitive to damage by small over voltages and the electronics are not repairable except by replacement of expensive parts if available. This is the same with modern automobiles, flat screen TVs, appliances, stereos and hi fi etc.
I am glad there are a few folks still going into the old stuff and think the hobby is big enough for all of us. The main thing is look over the model train hobby and find out what you like, no matter scale, gauge, price, age or vintage and have enjoyment and fun building and sharing your layout or collection.
Charlie
I appreciate the PW and MPC conventional control trains. I still have quite a few packed away for the grandkids. But, I like to do a lot of switching on my layout. Command control gives me the ability to operate several locomotives independently. The speed control is remarkable. The remote couplers are a must. Sound is nice, but I don't need it. I don't use smoke (too messy). And who can argue about the play value of the TMCC crane?
Tom
I just bought a Lionel 264 PW Piggyback Loader from Nassau Hobby. On the way now. Always liked that simple accessory, and when I saw it in nice shape and reasonably priced...
Love them old trains of my youth.
Thanks Christopher, I appreciate it. Ah, so many MPC switchers to choose from!
Never going back to the buzz of E-Units. I would rather go N scale (because my wife wants to move out of the house and into a condo some day).
Reading this and other threads, it is amazing how diverse this world of O gauge trains is, which of course is what makes it appealing, in that you can do what you want with it, take whatever approach. Some of it in some ways is a bit ironic, these trains originally were built as toys, for example, and while some still love the 'toy train approach', others find annoying the elements of modern trains that make them more toy like, like the station sounds, train chatter, or the non prototypical sounds of the engine and such, because they are more into the prototypical aspects, it tells you how much this has grown and changed, and that is definitely all good
illinoiscentral posted:Never going back to the buzz of E-Units. I would rather go N scale (because my wife wants to move out of the house and into a condo some day).
That is what makes the world go 'round, Michael.
To me the silence of electronic E-Units is odd, and just seems wrong, like something is missing.
Stay healthy
Great responses everyone!
About 30 years ago I sold all of my 0-27/semi-scale stuff, which was all my meager O-gauge collection consisted of at the time. I got into N-scale, which I still have and eventually started buying O-gauge again, but only focused on scale items. I always missed my toy trains. A few years ago I decided to buy a few semi-scale things that I had back in the day. Now I have way more of the little stuff then I did 30 years ago. It is fun to play with the toy trains.
I never really left the old stuff. The new stuff interests me sometimes; but it's usually short lived interest and use. I like the parked pressure cyclings on tenders more than run sounds. I might leave one parked on a side with the bell on for an ambiance. (I've heard bells ring non-stop for hours in real life too; plenty real)
It sucks paying $100s for boards you don't want when a $15 option you do want is ignored. I haven't looked hard at an engine catalog since "mandatory sound" began.
The e unit doesn't have to buzz; some just don't buzz 
. TMCC open frame motors have the old PW feel when used conventionally too. If the guts toast you swap in an e unit or wire it fwd only just like old times 
It's can motors I don't like or trust as much. Two have been nicer than PW in some ways though. The can motor GG-1s are best (I said uncle.finally), and a Baby Berk that's been smooth and responsive (older berk jr). (Jr could be faster 🤔) It took some time to like them.
The tmcc E33 open frame is smoother and quiter than old ones. Magntraction too.
The cans CAN still be fun though. My little MPC RI dc-dockside with bridge rectifier for ac, lots of weights, metal plow, run cab fwd etc, etc. pulls a "stupid" amount for it's size and aesthetic quality.(first motor died fast, but the new has been abused near daily for many years now (7?)
In the last 8 years I met a lot of 20 something year olds waiting on a renter here. Those that showed interest, talked of maybe doing a layout, etc., but none really had any interest in the new stuff; controls nor sounds.
The Tin Wins with them...then Post War engines that whistle/smoke, then operating cars/stuff, and advertising/nostalgic aspect of billboard cars / etc.. A motorhead /rat crowd, 80mph+ Ruttman Indian downstairs etc.... and a phone in every hand 🙄
I wouldn't mind "A BIG RED BUTTON" app to emergency stop with at times but I don't want to look, it's not "hands on".
I can't wait for screens that FEEL 3d.... that I might go for.... only maybe
Wow...nearly two hours of fighting spellwreck and auto-composer up there. So monotonous time faded.
I'll throw my 2 cents in: I've been there and back with trains, Lionel O set as a little boy, then HO, then Lionel postwar, a 100% super O layout by means of a very large neighborhood buy in 1968, then back to HO, then pulling out most of the same Lionel Postwar 30 years later (and getting it all working well again), and then standard gauge, which has become a bit of an obsession over the past 5 years. The Standard Gauge Module Association and folks like Arno Baars really kindled my enthusiasm for almost all things standard gauge, Arno was also the impetus for me reproducing the Lee Lines GS4 Daylight and their passenger cars in STD, and later picking up the Harmon Challenger, passengers cars and my own design PRR GG1.
Jim
I personally wish lionel had moved forward with the odyssey motor back in the day so we could have retrofit some of the less collectible versions of the classics with cruise.
Trains for me are more of a soothing thing...I tend to like to turn them on and just let them run around a circuit for hours while just watching them run around the track...doesn't require engaging the brain...so much on thinking (work) as on thinking (visualizing train-like activities that don't generate stress...lol).
Actually running a setup as a miniature world activity is not my focus although I like the accuracy of setting it up with real world-like appearance...yards...working block signals...crossing gates...etc.
Otherwise...it's an activity that takes me away (intentionally) from the work I have to do...so I can play.
Right now...I'm assembling parts to build a 4x8 two-level o27 style old school setup that I can run lionchief and small o27 railking on...turn on the cruise...run them at slow somewhat proto speeds...and recede into my whimsical space...
Gibson Man, I think you just summed up my feelings on the older trains. I exercise my brain cells every day at work, I want to give them the weekend off. I dig running them, maintaining them, building them, even the scenery. But I do not like diagnosing electrical problems. So, I stay away from anything with more than 3 wires going to it. Good thing too, as I am color blind, makes wiring jobs really fun, loudish popen und spitzen sparken. 220v, 221v, whatever it takes.
Chris S.
MikeH posted:Nope. I got into O specifically for scale stuff. Without it, I'd be in HO.
I got back into trains after I picked up an O-27 Lionel stater set from a second hand store but I found myself longing for the scale stuff. Now my collection is almost all scale. I think whatever makes you happy is what you should go with. I am just glad we have the option of having plenty of choices between the old and the new and 0-27 and scale.
A question for you folks that have gone back or prefer the older trains. Do you run them on tubular track?
I'm not into the Lionel, I do have AF both Gilbert and Flyonel. I enjoy both and run it all on Gilbert T Track, which is the vintage as Lionel tubular track.
Ray
jim sutter posted:A question for you folks that have gone back or prefer the older trains. Do you run them on tubular track?
Yes.
Check out the "About Warrenville" link on my website - link below
jim sutter posted:A question for you folks that have gone back or prefer the older trains. Do you run them on tubular track?
I do not use tubular track for my postwar trains except for an accessory activation track section which is post war. All my track is modern Lionel Fastrack, which seems to work quite well with all my post war engines and cars.
