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I wonder if anyone out there is like me....

I have collected so much postwar,  amassed just about the entire high end line of MPC, (Engines, Sets) LTI  and TMCC engines and sets, and the entire PWC and CC series, I have also collected some Legacy Engines, and all of the Scale Premium Freight Sets from the past 20 years. I have been collecting Lionel since I was 10 ( I am now 43) But I am getting the bug of going back to focusing on the older items again. I like the new items, and love my entire collection, and with some of the premium freight sets, ( Coal Trains, Tank Trains, Auto Rack Trains, etc) area actually the trains I see on the lines here in South Eastern PA on the NS and CSX Lines which is why I collected them,  But with more and more newer items coming out, I am finding that its just too much.

I am Lionel 100% (some AF as well) but just how many SD70ACE, ES44AC, etc do we really need? Its nice having different road names, other then the big Class 1 railroads, but the scale stuff is just starting to not feel like Lionel O Gauge Anymore, I love my operating accessories, and my complete postwar Plasticville collection (over 400 pieces with all variations) but the scale stuff is starting to not to  appeal to me as much anymore, and i am afraid of the electronics going bad...I know the upgrades for TMCC are available, to repair older units, but what about Legacy??  

Dont get me wrong, I love Lionel and I am glad they are still producing great items, but with quality control, things not working out of the box etc, I am hesitant on pre-ordering anymore, and the recent price for the Postwar Inspired items, especially the Santa Fe set, is just crazy.....Everyday, The older keep calling me back! I will always be a collector.......Has anyone else felt this way? 

Sorry for the long post....I guess being bored and working from home has got me thinking.....

 

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I like the older "Postwar" Lionel also. Maybe it is because that is what I grew up with. Maybe it is because I am "afraid" of the newer electronics. I think it is a combination of the two. I only have one MTH engine, and  run it with my ZW transformer. Somehow, to me, the old Lionel is just the epitome of toy trains, so , that is what I have collected and run.

Jeff

I’ve been thinking along the same lines.   For years I had a large PW collection sitting on shelves gathering dust.    Lately, nothing new excites me.    I started running my PW and have found a long lost love for my roots in the hobby.   I still run my subways but now I’m running my 2020 and 671 engines with all PW cars.   I have complete PW sets and soon they will be seeing action again.

I enjoy my scale stuff, but I often find myself looking at the older stuff lately as well.  I'm a rather mechanically oriented person and not so much circuit board electronics oriented, so I'm not as comfortable popping the hood to maintain my new stuff.  The Postwar stuff is fun to take apart and service/repair for me because I can understand how the basic electronics work in it.  I also enjoy bringing long dormant pieces back to life.  You can also do a lot within pretty much any price range.  While some of the nicer and more collectible pieces still fetch a lot of money, you can also get some decent runners for not much more than a scale piece of rolling stock in some cases.

Like a lot of folks, I grew up and — later on — out of trains before returning to the hobby in my thirties.  I love the pre-war, early post-war and some of the post-war-inspired items of the mid 90s.  However, with all of the modern electronics and confusion they often bring, I like the simple operation of straightforward analog operation.  (Same goes for my Marklin HO collection.)  As a fellow collector/operator once told me, “no need to program... just play.” 

I've been going through the modern era back to post-war cycle for literally years.  Right now and for the last month or so I've been in the command command control mode but for almost the entire previous year I was in the post-war conventional mode.    I must admit I have a slight preference for post-war because of its simplicity and reliability but then eventually I swing back to our present technological wonders.   Actually guys, having both conventional and command control at our fingertips simultaneously makes for more interesting and diverse operating sessions.  Get tired of one then bounce over to the other.  When you think abut it, its great.  I don't think I'll ever get completely weary of either.

Last edited by OKHIKER

I'm only going 1 or 2 steps back looking at Tmcc stuff from the mid 2000's or so.

I find the build and paint quality superior to the same Loco offered in legacy and Tmcc versions can be had for as low as 30% of a legacy offering.

Of what I currently own. My Tmcc locos have been bullet proof. Right down to the smoke unit. Ironically,all of them were bought nos out of warranty, and had no issues of any kind.

If I wanted. I could always  upgrade those that need it with gunrunners upgrade package and still come in several hundred dollars below a new legacy equipped model.

Also not thrilled with the new direction Lionel has taken, but hey, that's my problem.

Last edited by RickO

As some of you have pointed out, the electronics are what makes me back away from the modern stuff. If it isn't repairable with a screwdriver or pliers, I'll pass. Plus, having a small layout means all the DCC, TMCC, whatever, etc. really has no use to me. The most modern engine that I own is the first Lionmaster T1 Duplex just because I fell in love with the real thing, and if / when the boards fry, they'll be replaced by a rectifier and a mechanical e-unit. 

Postwar and Conventional for me thanks.

I'm in the process of selling all my boxed postwar stuff and some boxed MPC.   Just keeping enough PW & MPC to run and enjoy.

Never got past William's level stuff and a few PS-1 engines (so cheap they can be doorstops).

Reading the forum threads kept me from the electronics stuff.  I don't  know of a dedicated train store within 1000 miles of me.  So getting repairs would also be a pain.  I enjoy seeing it on layouts at train shows, but I couldn't justify that price/heartburn ratio. 

PW is so dependable and repairable.  And I enjoy the smell of ozone, smoke pellets, and hearing the clackity clack that lobster claw toys make when running on tubular track. 

But that's just me

When I left 3-rail, it was the "Hi-rail/Scale" approach that caused me to start looking for the door to go elsewhere.

Long story short: When I was indulged in PW and PW-type engines and 6464 type rolling stock, I enjoyed it. I was enjoying toy trains and the center rail was SUPPOSED to be a part of that scene. It wasn't until I started attempting to make my 3-rail hobby look more scale (with scale sized engines/cars) that the center rail submarined my immersion. Mistake. However, it's for the better, for my true modeling roots is steeped in HO, and that's where I ended up back into. (And I'm thoroughly enjoying it at this point.)

Now, having said that: IF, for dexterity reasons, my HO becomes too small/piddlesome, and IF my health and ambulatory ability were still up the challenge, at that point I would be VERY tempted to pull down my current HO layout. In its place I would build an around the walls w/peninsula "yard scene", and thereon create a Kansas City-type layout within my 20' x 16' layout building. HOWEVER, all this with a twist: The layout would only use 3-rail "Traditional sized" equipment, AND I would build reasonably realistic scenery. (Emphasizing the "gritty" nature of city railroading during the 1950s.)

A long time ago, the following pictures helped me to truly see the potential of traditional sized trains when the setting is convincingly realistic.

From an OGR member that I can never remember who...

a734

In the above picture, I love the overall look of those cast frame FA's look pulling those 6454-type rolling stock through such scenery. They would also look good at the head end of 6464 boxcars.

And from ORG member "Christopher", come these two photos:

Note even the little stamped frame FA's look great when the scenery is convincing...

5217275911_ed9a567fb8_z

And another from "Christopher" that takes the lowly little 2-6-4 and makes it look great. Again, (IMHO) the setting (scenery) is the key...

5750828592_0c5d0499a0_z

So yes, if my aging body gets to the point that HO has a bigger H Factor (Hassle Factor) than F Factor (Fun Factor)... then it would be very tempting to do something along the lines illustrated in these pictures. Upside: In view of the above, I already have a plan IF HO eventually gets to be too small and the H Factor overtakes the F Factor. 

Yup, I certainly understand the way PW can call out to one's inner self.

Andre

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RickO posted:

I'm only going 1 or 2 steps back looking at Tmcc stuff from the mid 2000's or so.

I find the build and paint quality superior to the same Loco offered in legacy and Tmcc versions can be had for as low as 30% of a legacy offering.

Of what I currently own. My Tmcc locos have been bullet proof. Right down to the smoke unit. Ironically,all of them were bought nos out of warranty, and had no issues of any kind.

If I wanted. I could always  upgrade those that need it with gunrunners upgrade package and still come in several hundred dollars below a new legacy equipped model.

Also not thrilled with the new direction Lionel has taken, but hey, that's my problem.

Wish I could give this two...or four....thumbs up!!!

I am a scale guy with no real appetite for PW equipment but there are still things that concern me, especially pricing.  I am starting to think along the lines of @RickO that backing into TMCC models from 15-20 years ago may be the way to go. I was looking at a TMCC Allegheny over the weekend that was brand new in the box for $700 versus $2100 for the latest Legacy version. I will never be able to justify that price tag and its really the same mold with upgraded electronics and some extra hand installed pieces which I could create/purchase and install myself. 

The other concern I have is how rapidly the technology is changing.  Its great to see and I'm happy there are a lot of young people in the hobby but I'm concerned when we are going down the path of using our phones exclusively for running trains. I hear the rumors/fact that MTH will not be building DCS remotes soon and I'm sure at some point Lionel will follow suit. That is when the hobby becomes frustrating because if the apps don't work, trains cease to be fun. There is something to be said for PW crowd; its a simpler, more consistent running experience that will continue to bring them joy for many years to come.    

For me, it has always been about the trains, not the technology to run them. In my past lives in HO and On30, simple block control was all I needed to make trains run, so that's all the higher up the control system food chain I wanted to go.

In O gauge 3 rail, mechanical E units have been doing the job for decades, so why bother with anything else? Besides, it's the trains I like to see run. They don't have to be scale, they just need to be clearly identifiable as trains. Another plus for me, older stuff like pre and post war trains tend to be undersized compared to actual O scale trains, but that just means more trains in a given space.

For me I grew up with postwar Lionel items and still like them the best. Nowadays I like them for new reasons in that they now have the nostalgia aspect to them, they are durable and when they need fixing many times I can do it myself. I do have a few modern items, but even they are run conventionally. In my world durability and simplicity wins the day.

Fireball RR posted:

I am a scale guy with no real appetite for PW equipment but there are still things that concern me, especially pricing.  I am starting to think along the lines of @RickO that backing into TMCC models from 15-20 years ago may be the way to go. I was looking at a TMCC Allegheny over the weekend that was brand new in the box for $700 versus $2100 for the latest Legacy version. I will never be able to justify that price tag and its really the same mold with upgraded electronics and some extra hand installed pieces which I could create/purchase and install myself. 

The other concern I have is how rapidly the technology is changing.  Its great to see and I'm happy there are a lot of young people in the hobby but I'm concerned when we are going down the path of using our phones exclusively for running trains. I hear the rumors/fact that MTH will not be building DCS remotes soon and I'm sure at some point Lionel will follow suit. That is when the hobby becomes frustrating because if the apps don't work, trains cease to be fun. There is something to be said for PW crowd; its a simpler, more consistent running experience that will continue to bring them joy for many years to come.    

I think Lionel, MTH, or somebody else need to make a transformer or "PowerMaster" which can be Bluetooth or Wi-Fi controlled.

Dominic Mazoch posted:
Fireball RR posted:

The other concern I have is how rapidly the technology is changing.  Its great to see and I'm happy there are a lot of young people in the hobby but I'm concerned when we are going down the path of using our phones exclusively for running trains.  That is when the hobby becomes frustrating because if the apps don't work, trains cease to be fun. T.    

I think Lionel, MTH, or somebody else need to make a transformer or "PowerMaster" which can be Bluetooth or Wi-Fi controlled.

My issue with bluetooth/ WiFi running is you have to stare at your phone or iPad instead of watching the trains.

I can control all of the main features of locomotives by feel of the different controls on the legacy remote and watch my trains react as I do so.

There's no way one can do precise operations like switching out cars staring at a screen. Now we're drifting. Back to folks running older stuff.

I've always liked 3 Rail stuff from the post war but I have to admit that I'm not all that crazy about the animated accessories for some reason, I guess that makes me weird in a crazy kind of way but I like the scale stuff as well but the fact that they can't figure out how to make a diesel's pilot be fixed and not have to swing really gripes me especially when they say it is SCALE.  I guess I could say that I like both but if I were to start all over again, I'd probably stick with the post war stuff from the 40's up to the point right before it became MPC.  Just my opinion here, I think when it became MPC the quality of Lionel went way down.  However,  I would love to have one of the original scale Hudson's, I love that engine, it is an outstanding engine and I think Lionel really had their act together when they came out with that engine.  Oh Snap, I just love trains, be they HO, HOn3, S or Sn3, O scale, O Gauge, G Scale or Fn3 (1:20.3) and especially 1:1, I just love trains and I forgot to mention 1 1/2" scale 7 1/2" gauge live steam or diesel .  Interesting topic.

 

I have eclectic tastes when it comes to buying trains - I have prewar, postwar, and all forms of modern era Lionel (MPC, LTI, LLC, and modern Vision/LEGACY), along with K-Line, MTH, Weaver, and Atlas. So, I have a little bit of everything, and they're all ones I'm very happy to have.

All that being said, the majority of stuff I hunt for nowadays is a mix of postwar and LTI era Lionel. Both eras' (especially the latter) stuff you can find for absolute bargain prices (compared to back in the late 90's). Plus a majority of the LTI locomotives, early LLC locomotives and MTH PS1 locomotives are scale and can be upgraded for inexpensive prices, all the while still spending less on a current LEGACY or PS3 version.

I grew up with HO and my Dad's tinplate at Christmas. Loved my HO trains but something about Lionel made me wish I had them. Fast forward to about 4 years ago when my In-laws found a box of old tinplate freight cars. Built a layout (albeit small), and started down the garden path.

I've got post-war, MPC, and "vintage modern" as I like to call it (Lionel and MTH), Williams and WbB, and lots of K-line.  I run all conventional using blocks to park trains. Scenery is a mix of things, no operating accessories as they take up too much room to fit my space. The third rail doesn't bother me, but 2-rail scale is impressive.

Might switch to modern controls one day if I build a bigger layout but for now what I have is fine.

I have mostly modern (post-1996) stuff.  Prototypical accuracy has never meant much to me, so I'm a toy train guy.  I like postwar, but I also like new trains out of the box and I like command control.  That said, I find myself enjoying LionChief, LionChief+ type locos that have much of the postwar feel (at least to this geezer) and some of the modern features such as command control, electrocouplers, digital sound etc. 

The prices are actually cheaper than the cheapest postwar stuff was in the 1950s, corrected for inflation.  Thus if you like postwar but want similar new and sparkling out of the box models with some modern features at a value price, in my opinion, nothing beats current LC and LC+ type locos. 

If you haven't tried them, you can use the included remote (Lionchief and LC+ prior to LC + 2.0) or the smart device app, or, in the case of LC+, a traditional transformer/power supply.  Not a big investment up front, compared with the high-end Legacy stuff, which has its appeal but is much pricier and more complex overall.  I've bought LionChief locos from Charles Ro for under $200 recently and they come with the necessary remote.  Looks a lot like postwar but not quite as heavy.  Just a thought .

Last edited by Landsteiner

These days I’m running such a small layout, the large scale stuff is out of the question as well as the price.  I still have most of my postwar stuff, but decided to make the current layout mostly LionChief. It’s much easier for my kids to operate, even my 2 year old and I’m all about getting them involved. Besides, kids being kids is much easier to take on a 200$ LionChief engine than an expensive postwar item. The kids also enjoy the sounds.  Even though the trains are traditional size, I think you can mask a lot of that with realistic scenery.

Christopher2035 posted:

Even though the trains are traditional size, I think you can mask a lot of that with realistic scenery.

As you have amply proven as evidenced by your photos I shared above. Here's another of your photos that you shared years ago that I've saved:

5807746755_17d626fb18_z

Though "technically" the Lionel NW2 is very near scale in overall proportions... the original model was still aimed at the "toy" market so its details and such are impressionistic. Anyway, the above photo still illustrates your point nicely: Toy trains on good looking scenery = nice result!

Andre

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laming posted:
Christopher2035 posted:

Even though the trains are traditional size, I think you can mask a lot of that with realistic scenery.

As you have amply proven as evidenced by your photos I shared above. Here's another of your photos that you shared years ago that I've saved:

5807746755_17d626fb18_z

Though "technically" the Lionel NW2 is very near scale in overall proportions... the original model was still aimed at the "toy" market so its details and such are impressionistic. Anyway, the above photo still illustrates your point nicely: Toy trains on good looking scenery = nice result!

Andre

That switcher screams the 1970's and MPC!  Lionel had many locomotives in CS colors!

From the FWIW Dept....

Back a couple years ago I seriously looked at just building the "Kansas City Lines" concept mentioned above and being done with it. (Bypassing HO.)

I was a bit concerned finding a "traditional sized" switch engine for use switching the KC industries I would design into the layout. My "go to" was going to be the RMT "Bang" (nee K-Line/Marx) S-2. Having owned one back during my great experiments, they ran surprisingly good on my old ZW and figured they would be very smooth and nice using more modern controls. (I intended to go wireless walk around.)

Only thing that bothered me a bit about the Bang was that it was almost too "traditional". That is, the body looked awfully short. Well, this morning I received an email from RMT announcing to the modeling world that they have miraculously found a few more Bang diesels out in that, what must be an incredibly large and disorganized, warehouse. (Sort of like the parting scene in Raiders Of The Lost Arc.)

Upon seeing the side shots of the two road names, I thought "hmmmm. I wonder?"

SO, after a quick patch job in my photo software, I experimented to see what a Bang would look like if the cab was moved back and the end of the cab flushed as an S-2 should be. Here's a pic (stock on the top, stretched on the bottom) to illustrate. Looked nice...

 

cf_StockBang_StretchedBang

Whether it would have been worth the trouble and expense (it would take two shells per engine) is dubious at best. BUT, it was a fun experiment that didn't cost me a red cent.

I had in mind using Bang's (a couple) to be the power my own freelance "Kansas City Belt" switching railroad, and the Kansas City Belt rails would play host to other KC lines moving about the city (as was the case on the prototype Kansas City Terminal). It could have been a ton of fun!

Andre

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Last edited by laming

Christopher (or anyone else that knows): Are the bodies for the cheap NW2's the same length as the scale? I've considered swapping some out (I know it'll take a little fitting) with a couple of beat-up SF 622's if they are, but I never remember to take measurements before going to a meet, and I'm too much of a tightwad to want to buy without knowing.

That said, like Andre, I've always enjoyed your layouts. Got any new photos?

artyoung posted:

Christopher (or anyone else that knows): Are the bodies for the cheap NW2's the same length as the scale? I've considered swapping some out (I know it'll take a little fitting) with a couple of beat-up SF 622's if they are, but I never remember to take measurements before going to a meet, and I'm too much of a tightwad to want to buy without knowing.

That said, like Andre, I've always enjoyed your layouts. Got any new photos?

Are you talking about the legacy ones?  If so, I would suspect not. I believe the hood was a bit too wide on the PW NW2. The mountings would also be different.  I should have some new photos soon. With being home 24/7 now with the kids, it has given me renewed interest to just get the layout done - I need something to do!

laming posted:
Christopher2035 posted:

Even though the trains are traditional size, I think you can mask a lot of that with realistic scenery.

As you have amply proven as evidenced by your photos I shared above. Here's another of your photos that you shared years ago that I've saved:

5807746755_17d626fb18_z

Though "technically" the Lionel NW2 is very near scale in overall proportions... the original model was still aimed at the "toy" market so its details and such are impressionistic. Anyway, the above photo still illustrates your point nicely: Toy trains on good looking scenery = nice result!

Andre

Exactly! I'm glad you liked some of my shots enough to refer to them   To me, part of the hobby is imagination and with nice scenery, even an 027 steamer can seem larger than life & close to the real thing if you use a bit of imagination

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Note that the BANG has cogging motors that don't work well with back-EMF cruise, just a warning...  I tried a Cruise Commander in one, and low speed performance was pretty bad.

Should have suspected that you had already attempted an upgrade of a BANG.  Sorry about that.

I still love running any Lionel trains be they PW or “modern” with TMCC or Legacy. My 2 biggest thrills were   1) in 1960’s seeing Gargraves 3 rail track and switches with more closely realistic wooden rails &  ties.                            2) The Holy Grail for me of controlling multiple trains on the same track without electrical blocks arrived with TMCC. 

In late 1960’s I had modified each side of my ZW transformer with big diodes to match 2 modified PW trains with big diodes with opposite polarities — this allowed me to control 2 trains on same track. ( Had to disconnect whistle features, but overall worked pretty well). 

Similar to some previous posts above, I have had no TMCC / Legacy failures, so continue to enjoy true wireless controls of my trains.

Carl J

 

IMO, post war Lionel represents a simpler time in our life when electric trains were part of our Christmas season fun. As time progressed innovations took us from simple to improved to high tech.  I have gone back to the older stuff just a bit but can't ignore running improvements. The newer rolling stock with the fast angle wheels run far smoother and you can pull longer consists with them.  DC motors have brought us better scale speed operation but the older engines can be tuned to run pretty well.  I believe that the best layout would have a combination of the old and the new.

My main problem with the new stuff is the sound systems.  I'm old enough to have heard many steam engines in the 50's and diesels of the 60's, and I have a good memory for them.  The model sound systems rarely sound right.  The only railroad where I've heard realistic sound is an outdoor railroad in Fn3 on an acre of wooded land.  

The most consistent problem is that both steam and diesel have a steady sound that is proportional to speed.  That wasn't true then of real railroads and isn't today.  A diesel going up grade would be in the eighth notch.  At the top of a hill, he'd cut back several notches and the speed would increase - opposite of what model sound does.  Coming into a station, the train would be coasting for the last quarter or half mile - no engine sound at all and not proportional to speed.  

Another problem is the volume.  When running a model railroad, our view is what a railfan sitting on a nearby hill might see, but the sound is that of being next to the train.  Being able to hear the sound from many trains at one time is totally unrealistic.

One of the reasons that I've stopped attending operating sessions at my model railroad club is too much sound that destroys the illusion of seeing just the part of the railroad where I am.  Much better to have no sound at all and imagine the correct sounds.

I could say more about caboose, dining car and station sounds, but I think this rant has gone far enough.  Back to my basement of trains free of modern electronic inconveniences.

 

For O Scale I am 95% postwar, some of it remnants of my childhood trains. The non postwar pieces are Lionel Postwar Celebration pieces, Like the 164 Log Loader, Culver Loader, Fire Car, And Navy Missile engine that run as good or better than there Postwar counterparts. I have a nice layout that features most of the postwar Accessories that I enjoy just running with few issues. If I want DCC, I can run my N Scale layout but since I work with computers all day, some days I just want to come home and run trains “old School”

 

ZWPOWER13 posted:

I wonder if anyone out there is like me....

I have collected so much postwar,  amassed just about the entire high end line of MPC, (Engines, Sets) LTI  and TMCC engines and sets, and the entire PWC and CC series, I have also collected some Legacy Engines, and all of the Scale Premium Freight Sets from the past 20 years. I have been collecting Lionel since I was 10 ( I am now 43) But I am getting the bug of going back to focusing on the older items again. I like the new items, and love my entire collection, and with some of the premium freight sets, ( Coal Trains, Tank Trains, Auto Rack Trains, etc) area actually the trains I see on the lines here in South Eastern PA on the NS and CSX Lines which is why I collected them,  But with more and more newer items coming out, I am finding that its just too much.

I am Lionel 100% (some AF as well) but just how many SD70ACE, ES44AC, etc do we really need? Its nice having different road names, other then the big Class 1 railroads, but the scale stuff is just starting to not feel like Lionel O Gauge Anymore, I love my operating accessories, and my complete postwar Plasticville collection (over 400 pieces with all variations) but the scale stuff is starting to not to  appeal to me as much anymore, and i am afraid of the electronics going bad...I know the upgrades for TMCC are available, to repair older units, but what about Legacy??  

Dont get me wrong, I love Lionel and I am glad they are still producing great items, but with quality control, things not working out of the box etc, I am hesitant on pre-ordering anymore, and the recent price for the Postwar Inspired items, especially the Santa Fe set, is just crazy.....Everyday, The older keep calling me back! I will always be a collector.......Has anyone else felt this way? 

Sorry for the long post....I guess being bored and working from home has got me thinking.....

 

Sounds like you got a case of o gauge burn out.The only cure is time and maybe step back for a bit.And keep in mind this is just a hobby.Take a breath and run your older stuff if you like.Heck I still have my very first railking erie berkshire.I take it out every now and then.

mlaughlinnyc posted:

My main problem with the new stuff is the sound systems.  I'm old enough to have heard many steam engines in the 50's and diesels of the 60's, and I have a good memory for them.  The model sound systems rarely sound right.  The only railroad where I've heard realistic sound is an outdoor railroad in Fn3 on an acre of wooded land.  

The most consistent problem is that both steam and diesel have a steady sound that is proportional to speed.  That wasn't true then of real railroads and isn't today.  A diesel going up grade would be in the eighth notch.  At the top of a hill, he'd cut back several notches and the speed would increase - opposite of what model sound does.  Coming into a station, the train would be coasting for the last quarter or half mile - no engine sound at all and not proportional to speed.  

Another problem is the volume.  When running a model railroad, our view is what a railfan sitting on a nearby hill might see, but the sound is that of being next to the train.  Being able to hear the sound from many trains at one time is totally unrealistic.

One of the reasons that I've stopped attending operating sessions at my model railroad club is too much sound that destroys the illusion of seeing just the part of the railroad where I am.  Much better to have no sound at all and imagine the correct sounds.

I could say more about caboose, dining car and station sounds, but I think this rant has gone far enough.  Back to my basement of trains free of modern electronic inconveniences.

 

Ok. I'll take over for you.

I agree with all you've said. And those engineer and station announcements......oh my goodness. Hoky . Cheesy. Annoying.

 

Sorry to those that have them. My opinion really means nothing. I promise. Just ask my whole family!

When I started into model trains for my young family to enjoy them at Christmas, the old stuff was all we had in 1976.  The new stuff in1976 was available but so was the postwar stuff.

In all the 40 plus years since I have not seen any reason to trade the old postwar stuff in for the newest, greatest, expensive, and hard to repair new stuff that has paraded into fashion for many, both old and young over the years.

Two major things are one, Cost:  new engines cost from a few hundred, to $1000 and now even $2000, at the same time prices of the old postwar stuff is low with most of my engines costing $20 to $40 with a few for $10 and one at $100. 

The second thing is train gear must repairable by me.  Trains with modern electronics are sensitive to damage by small over voltages and the electronics are not repairable except by replacement of expensive parts if available.  This is the same with modern automobiles, flat screen TVs, appliances, stereos and hi fi etc.

I am glad there are a few folks still going into the old stuff and think the hobby is big enough for all of us. The main thing is look over the model train hobby and find out what you like, no matter scale, gauge, price, age or vintage  and have enjoyment and fun building and sharing your layout or collection.

Charlie

I appreciate the PW and MPC conventional control trains.  I still have quite a few packed away for the grandkids.  But, I like to do a lot of switching on my layout.  Command control gives me the ability to operate several locomotives independently.  The speed control is remarkable.  The remote couplers are a must.  Sound is nice, but I don't need it.  I don't use smoke (too messy).  And who can argue about the play value of the TMCC crane?

Tom

Reading this and other threads, it is amazing how diverse this world of O gauge trains is, which of course is what makes it appealing, in that you can do what you want with it, take whatever approach. Some of it in some ways is a bit ironic, these trains originally were built as toys, for example, and while some still love the 'toy train approach', others find annoying the elements of modern trains that make them more toy like, like the station sounds, train chatter, or the non prototypical sounds of the engine and such, because they are more into the prototypical aspects, it tells you how much this has grown and changed, and that is definitely all good

About 30 years ago I sold all of my 0-27/semi-scale stuff, which was all my meager O-gauge collection consisted of at the time. I got into N-scale, which I still have and eventually started buying O-gauge again, but only focused on scale items.  I always missed my toy trains. A few years ago I decided to buy a few semi-scale things that I had back in the day. Now I have way more of the little stuff then I did 30 years ago. It is fun to play with the toy trains.

I never really left the old stuff. The new stuff interests me sometimes; but it's usually short lived interest and use.   I like the parked pressure cyclings on tenders more than run sounds. I might leave one parked on a side with the bell on for an ambiance. (I've heard bells ring non-stop for hours in real life too; plenty real)

It sucks paying $100s for boards you don't want when a $15 option you do want is ignored. I haven't looked hard at an engine catalog since "mandatory sound" began.

The e unit doesn't have to buzz; some just don't buzz  .  TMCC open frame motors have the old PW feel when used conventionally too. If the guts toast you swap in an e unit or wire it fwd only just like old times

It's can motors I don't like or trust as much. Two have been nicer than PW in some ways though. The can motor GG-1s are best (I said uncle.finally), and a Baby Berk that's been smooth and responsive (older berk jr). (Jr could be faster 🤔) It took some time to like them.

The tmcc E33 open frame is smoother and quiter than old ones. Magntraction too.

The cans CAN still be fun though. My little MPC RI dc-dockside with bridge rectifier for ac, lots of weights, metal plow, run cab fwd etc, etc. pulls a "stupid" amount for it's size and aesthetic quality.(first motor died fast, but the new has been abused near daily for many years now (7?)

In the last 8 years I met a lot of 20 something year olds waiting on a renter here. Those that showed interest, talked of maybe doing a layout, etc., but none really had any interest in the new stuff; controls nor sounds. 

The Tin Wins with them...then Post War engines that whistle/smoke, then operating cars/stuff, and advertising/nostalgic aspect of billboard cars / etc.. A motorhead /rat crowd, 80mph+ Ruttman Indian downstairs etc.... and a phone in every hand 🙄

I wouldn't mind "A BIG RED BUTTON" app to emergency stop with at times but I don't want to look, it's not "hands on".

I can't wait for screens that FEEL 3d.... that I might go for.... only maybe 

Wow...nearly two hours of fighting spellwreck and auto-composer up there. So monotonous time faded.

I'll throw my 2 cents in: I've been there and back with trains, Lionel O set as a little boy, then HO, then Lionel postwar, a 100% super O layout by means of a very large neighborhood buy in 1968, then back to HO, then pulling out most of the same Lionel Postwar 30 years later (and getting it all working well again), and then standard gauge, which has become a bit of an obsession over the past 5 years. The Standard Gauge Module Association and folks like Arno Baars really kindled my enthusiasm for almost all things standard gauge, Arno was also the impetus for me reproducing the Lee Lines GS4 Daylight and their passenger cars in STD, and later picking up the Harmon Challenger, passengers cars and my own design PRR GG1.

Jim

I personally wish lionel had moved forward with the odyssey motor back in the day so we could have retrofit some of the less collectible versions of the classics with cruise. 

Trains for me are more of a soothing thing...I tend to like to turn them on and just let them run around a circuit for hours while just watching them run around the track...doesn't require engaging the brain...so much on thinking (work) as on thinking (visualizing train-like activities that don't generate stress...lol).

Actually running a setup as a miniature world activity is not my focus although I like the accuracy of setting it up with real world-like appearance...yards...working block signals...crossing gates...etc.

Otherwise...it's an activity that takes me away (intentionally) from the work I have to do...so I can play.

Right now...I'm assembling parts to build a 4x8 two-level o27 style old school setup that I can run lionchief and small o27 railking on...turn on the cruise...run them at slow somewhat proto speeds...and recede into my whimsical space...

 

Last edited by gibson man

Gibson Man, I think you just summed up my feelings on the older trains.  I exercise my brain cells every day at work, I want to give them the weekend off.  I dig running them, maintaining them, building them, even the scenery.  But I do not like diagnosing electrical problems.  So, I stay away from anything with more than 3 wires going to it.  Good thing too, as I am color blind, makes wiring jobs really fun, loudish popen und spitzen sparken.  220v, 221v, whatever it takes.

Chris S.

MikeH posted:

Nope.  I got into O specifically for scale stuff.  Without it, I'd be in HO.

I got back into trains after I picked up an O-27 Lionel stater set from a second hand store but I found myself longing for the scale stuff. Now my collection is almost all scale. I think whatever makes you happy is what you should go with. I am just glad we have the option of having plenty of choices between the old and the new and 0-27 and scale.

jim sutter posted:

A question for you folks that have gone back or prefer the older trains. Do you run them on tubular track?

I do not use tubular track for my postwar trains except for an  accessory activation track section which is post war. All my track is modern Lionel Fastrack, which seems to work quite well with all my post war engines and cars. 

Jim-I too run exclusively tubular track-"0" gauge in my case. My layout combines vintage track along with some of the newer Chinese made Lionel tubular track.

I must say it runs great and, while it is not "scale" in appearance, has a certain charm and nostalgia. I do dress it up with roadbed and rubber ties.

I often wonder if a case can be made for trains performing better on tubular track?

I'm BAAaaack!

Interesting twists of events in my life with model trains.

First...

Just this week, I made the decision to allow myself to pick up some Postwar items, Marx and Lionel for sure, and possibly some "Postwar-type" (i.e. "traditional sized") MTH.

Second...

My propensity for "life planning" has struck again.

Consider: I'm 68 now. I can still model in HO and intend to do so on my out-building housed HO layout until... well... let me put it this way:

We all want to retain our dexterity and good eyesight... but it doesn't always go the way we want. I have noticed that over the past few years, my hands aren't quite as steady as they used to be. At this point I can still work with the tiny drills, files, and such, and am able still to form handrails for HO engines and what have you... BUT... I have had moments that I'm frustrated because of what used to be quite doable, is now a lot more effort. I suspect there WILL be a time that the frustration begins to exceed the fun.

When?

Who knows? 10 years? 8 years? Or less?

SO, I'm "okay" now with picking up select PW pieces, because IF I decide to make a change, then I would at least have some equipment on hand. Cutting my HO to the bones through liquidation (keeping only a few pieces for sentimental reasons) would help finance the wood and track for a decent 3-rail layout, and I would build a simplistic around-the-wall 3-rail layout in my 20' x 16' out building that's currently housing the HO. Of course, this is still off in the unknown future if it even happens.

HOWEVER...

I've had a stroke of PURE GENIUS! (I'm very modest. )

You see, several years ago I went through a period of experimentation trying to "find" myself in model trains. (Yeah, I know... I'm pathetic! ) One of my experiments was in 3-rail. I used benchwork here in this computer room (spare bedroom) that was modified from a failed Sn3 experiment on which to get a 3-rail layout up and running in a basic way. However, as mentioned in my first post in this thread, I ended up undermining the fun of 3-rail by trying to make it something it can't be for me. (See the previous post for all the nitty gritty.) Thus, I went moved on from 3-rail to experiment with S scale. (Unsuccessfully, and after lots of $$ and time were consumed.) Thus, several years ago I gave up on the other scales and themes I had experimented with and went back to HO.

Now, here's the "genius" part: Remember the benchwork I mentioned? Well, I was intending to turn it into a downsized L shaped shelf layout, and thereon throw in a KC Lines theme in HO and have an in-house layout for inclement weather and late at night when I had the bug to play trains/etc.

BUT...

I'm now seriously considering reusing the very same benchwork that held my previous 3-rail experiment as my current 3-rail outlet, and poop-can the 2nd HO layout idea. I would again use the "KC Lines" theme that was I using many years ago, for it had a lot of promise. Here's a pic of my small 3-rail "experimental" KC Lines layout:

12thStYd

In fact, I will probably use a slightly modified version of the same trackplan as I used during my experimental period. My 3-rail concept was working for me as long as I used traditional equipment.

It was when I tried to go Hi-rail w/scale equipment that I became disenchanted with 3-rail. (See my previous post for the low down.)

I know better now. This time EVERYTHING will be traditional sized, and some of (my Marx 3/16" litho stuff) is sure 'nuf "toy market" stuff. However, I suspect the Marx will be run on the layout as a novelty and the real switching ("operation") will be done with knuckle equipped equipment.

SO... IF I decide to follow through with this, I can have a totally different medium (3-rail) to indulge in when I desire to take a break for my much more exacting HO modeling.

What this means is: I actually have a way to have for a 3-rail layout in the near future, and thus if needed, I can indeed migrate over to 3-rail exclusively if/when the hands are bit too shaky to do the type of work I insist on doing in HO. Life planning: With 3-rail sized trains and flanges, I can RAILROAD 'TIL I ROT!

I'm feeling very good about this idea, and I think it has a high probability of me going forward with it.

Andre

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Last edited by laming

I've been into Lionel O gauge since I was in diapers. I got serious about the hobby in my early teens when used Postwar was still easily found and dirt cheap. I joined the LCCofA in 1973 and had built up a respectable collection by the time I went off to college. My original trains were kept by my dad for many many years. I continued to purchase trains off and on and even dabbled in N,HO and even G. I finally lost interest in trains for about a decade focusing solely on my family and career. Fast forward to 2000 and while working on a project in Cincinnati,I come across and wander in to Davis Trains (Milford). I saw a MTH Railking ATSF 2900 4-8-4 and couldn't resist all the sounds and bells and whistles! I jumped back into trains and started collecting Premier scale steam and Lionel scale steam locomotives as well as a few diesels and electrics until I rostered nearly 400 locomotives by 2010. Due to the nature of my work assignments, I was only home one month out of the year. I finally returned to my home state in 2015,bought a large home and now had the room to properly display and run all these trains. Bear in mind that most of the engines were new and never run. As I started to unpack and test locomotives,I found out that there was a high failure rate on the electronics and I won't go into details but this really soured me on the hobby to the point I lost interest for several months. Then lo and behold! My Dad called and told me to come and get all the boxes of trains that he had been safely storing for nearly 4 decades!  I had never inventoried these so for many years I wasn't really sure what all I had. Unpacking all those for dozen or so banker's boxes was such sheer excitement and joy! I had forgotten how much I actually had and what I had collected back then. All those childhood trains brought back countless pleasant memories of a kinder,simpler time and my passion for Postwar and early MPC/Fundimensions was rekindled into a flaming passion again! Over the past 4 years I have sold/traded off most of those finicky modern trains and now I'm only  focusing on USA made Lionel up to 1990. I still have 20-30 MTH and Lionel scale steam locomotives and they are all proudly displayed (They all run and will continue to be run). The layout I'm building now is all tubular and powered by 4 Z4000's and 4 ZW's. I've come full circle. Postwar is certainly my "Happy Place".

Last edited by Ricky Tanner

You might compare pre-war to postwar features to postwar vs modern differences.  Some days the one direction loop is all it takes to grin, other days I want full automations, station stops, etc..

Command is nice, but so is simplicity; choose a route to suit what you want to get out of it all.

Electronics are as much work as they are play most days; that's what Ochams razor left behind for me. I try to let an open mind decide between electromechanical ànd electronics, but the Luddite in me definitely gets to speak.

I have prewar, postwar, MPC and new trains. I enjoy MPC and new trains but prewar and postwar Lionel are the real deal. These are the trains built by Josh Cowen and the original Lionel company. These are the trains with history. These are the trains that were America's favorite. These are trains ran that around the Christmas trees........They will never be replaced by new modern Lionel...NEVER!

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