Great Northern railway

Hi Sam;

Long time no talk.   Nice to see shots of your HO railroad.  Looking good.

Regards,

Jerry

Yo Jerry,

Just noticed that OGR just put this new forum up for us 'odd' people so I thought I'd post a few pictures of the layout.  For the last few months, I've been getting the layout ready for this Sunday when I have a open house for this month's NMRA meeting.  Over the past year, I've picked up about 20 new engines and the bulk of them needed to be painted.  Since GN and NP were 'joined at the hip', I've added several NP engines and painted them up in the gray boiler scheme:  I love multi-colored steam engines.  GN leased yellowstones from DM&IR during the winter when DM&IR couldn't haul ore due to it freezing so I also picked up a 2-8-8-4. 

With 1500' of track covering a 33'X47' area, I had a lot of cleaning to do to get ready for the open house.  But, I think the GN railway is ready for the crowd.

Sam

I liked that retail coaling facility.....before people show up, check that building with the stone addition...it may need ties moved and a foundation, to thwart rivet-counters and critics.   How were GN and NP "joined at the hip"?  Knowing little about them, I would have assumed they, between themselves,  and the Milwaukee were fierce competitors

The 'critics' get 'show me pictures of your basement size layout and all 150 buildings on your layout and how you did each of them'.   James Hill (founder and owner of GN) owned a lot of stock in NP as well as SP&S and Burlington.  He tried on 3 occasions to merge all these railroads into one but the ICC ruled against it.  The merger finally happened in 1970.   The GN and NP shared the main passenger terminals in St Paul and Seattle and Burlington pulled the GN passenger cars from St Paul to Chicago.  Both GN and NP owned SP&S and shared SP&S's track to bridge some cities.

I think Milwaukee was last to reach the coast and they had the most severe routes to get across the mountains.  I never read much that Milwaukee was a threat to the GN railroad.

WOW, thats a beautiful layout.

Thanks, Matt.

Video:

GN P-2 4-8-2 mountain freight crossing Chumstick canyon trestle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujdVUF1STZI   

Sam

GN S-2 4-8-4 northern pulling passenger train.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3vzjohUg8s   

Sam

Video of the GN R-2 2-8-8-2 in glacier park colors.  The engine rivaled the Big Boy and Allegheny in tractive power.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwtHmXKgPlU  

sam

Just arrived.

One of my favorite locos !!

Nice layout.  I noticed that HO layouts have the same issues as O Scale layout. Somebody laying down on the job face first. 

samparfitt posted:

Video of the GN R-2 2-8-8-2 in glacier park colors.  The engine rivaled the Big Boy and Allegheny in tractive power.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwtHmXKgPlU  

 

sam

Excellent!!!!   However, I'm curious as to why your R-2 does NOT sound like an articulated, i.e. no multiple exhausts, just 4 chuffs per revolution?

Like they say: how many work at your company? ...oh about half of them!

I think most model articulateds are set up for just one cam.  There's two cams, one on each set of drivers but the sound would sound like just one continuous noise.  Also, only one motor controls both sets of drivers so they won't go 'in and out' of sink like a full size articulated.   Somethings don't scale down well.   Kind of like scale handrails: make those scale and 1) you probably couldn't see them , 2) they would be extremely delicate and 3) they probably wouldn't look right.  

For me, I consider modeling an art versus an exact duplicate.  It's like looking at an expensive oil painting real close: it's just a bunch of paint brush strokes.  One looks at it from the proper distance to get the feel of realism without painting each leaf on a tree.  Our brain fills in the 'detail' for us. 

If you've ever watched Bob Ross paint, you know what I mean.

samparfitt posted:

Like they say: how many work at your company? ...oh about half of them!

I think most model articulateds are set up for just one cam.  There's two cams, one on each set of drivers but the sound would sound like just one continuous noise.  Also, only one motor controls both sets of drivers so they won't go 'in and out' of sink like a full size articulated.

It seems that the sound systems in the O Scale articulated models have found ways of "generating" that in-and-out of sync exhaust sound. Apparently the HO sound suppliers have not discovered that yet?

  Somethings don't scale down well.   Kind of like scale handrails: make those scale and 1) you probably couldn't see them , 2) they would be extremely delicate and 3) they probably wouldn't look right.  

For me, I consider modeling an art versus an exact duplicate.  It's like looking at an expensive oil painting real close: it's just a bunch of paint brush strokes.  One looks at it from the proper distance to get the feel of realism without painting each leaf on a tree.  Our brain fills in the 'detail' for us. 

If you've ever watched Bob Ross paint, you know what I mean.

 Regardless, you still have a fantastic layout!!!!

I had a talk with the one employee resting and he's back at work.  Not sure why he was tired; back in 1938, you only worked 12 hour days, 6 days a week and just moving 100 pound chunks of ice around!

An easy fix on the W-1 electric.

The engine ran fine upside down on the bench but was shorting out on the track.

The brass is not cast but just bent sheet brass so it was easy to straighten out.

The original foam was gone so new foam was cut via a scroll saw.

Here's the guts of her:

The new DCC sound systems may be more enhanced for the chuffing sound.  I'm using the PFM sound system from the 80's.

Back in the 80's and 90's I had 'cutting edge' high tech equipment on my layout and all enjoyed my monthly operation sessions.   Now, The new DCC systems are the latest thing.  I've got around 44 steam/electric engines and am not going to convert that many.  Besides, I'm very happy with my 'stone age' sound.  It has about 24 different sounds, besides the usual chuffing, hiss and whistle, 3 different wheel motion noise, 3 bells sounds, generator, 3 air pump sounds, coupler and blower.

 Like DCC, I can control my trains remotely so one can 'walk along' with his train on the layout.

One is controlling the PFM sound systems.

The other are RC airplane transmitters that control speed and direction (good for my electrics and any engines others may bring over to operate).

Here's a video of a sampling of the PFM sounds:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjJM-a9B5Sw

samparfitt posted:

I had a talk with the one employee resting and he's back at work.  Not sure why he was tired; back in 1938, you only worked 12 hour days, 6 days a week and just moving 100 pound chunks of ice around!

Its to bad that you have to stand there and watch him like that.   You just cant get good help these days.

I was watching you videos. The more I see your layout, I like it even more. Question.  Since you have the ore docks and Glacier National Park . Did you model the entire GN system, from Minnesota to Seattle?  Once again thanks for sharing your layout.

That old rule seems to apply to everything: there's always that 10%.

I did model the entire system from St. Paul (upper yard that is straight) to Seattle (lower yard that is curved).  Since the mainline is 400' long, I figured I could model both yards (cities).  Takes a good 1/2 hour to go from one city to the other.  Minimum radius is 48" and max grade is about 1/2 percent.

The yards are large being about 22'-30' long holding about 500 cars each with a train of about 35 cars can be in each track.   I made all turnouts #10's on the mainline and yards: they are needed in the yards as the cars would probably derail when a switcher is pushing that many cars through the points of the switch.

I like me some GN!!!

My 1st train HO) was a Bachmann GN 2-8-0 in Glacier scheme.  Probably not prototypical but at the time it was beautiful.

I may be wrong, I really haven't studied GN all that much, but it seems like they had a lot of similar equipment to my Seaboard Air Line, at least their steamers with the front-mounted air pumps seem similar to the SAL Q3 Mikes.

If I was into SAL, GN would be my next choice.

(I need to get a couple of O scale boxcars with Rocky on them)

Bob,

The main characteristics of the GN steam were:

flying airpumps on the smokebox.

belpaire fireboxes (Pennsy only other railroad that used them in large numbers).

glacier park colors (green boilers, red cab roofs)

vanderbilt tenders (cylindrical) 

low mounted headlights (when pumps on smokebox)

Sam

Other than the Belpaire fireboxes () the rest of those features could also be found on SAL steam (well, except the colors in GN configuration).

I just did a search on GN boxcars for O scale, but I'm not sure who makes the best or if they're even true to prototype.  More searching required!

I do have a few HO GN cars, old Athearn and other brands.

Most paint schemes are pretty accurate but GN may not have had that specific box car type, but most people won't notice, or care. 

samparfitt posted:

Most paint schemes are pretty accurate but GN may not have had that specific box car type, but most people won't notice, or care. 

Either way. You defiantly have a better selection of prototypical rolling stock, Engines and Waycars in HO. Since I do both CB&Q and GN, if I want correct Way Cars I have to kitbash to get what I want. The latest ones I am starting, is a C&S Way Car, U28C Ph1 and U28/30B. 

I looked and actually had only 3 GN cars in HO:

All 3 Athearn, thought I had more.  I'd like to get one like the red car in O scale.

When did the sky blue color come and go?

(they feel so fragile, no heft to them compared to O.  It would take some getting use to again)

Bob Delbridge posted:

 

When did the sky blue color come and go?

 

GN Big Sky Blue appeared in 1967 and would start disappearing in 1970 in favor of BN green.

Rusty

I think the blue scheme came in around the mid 60's, before the 1970/1 merge of GN, NP, SP&S and CB&Q. 

Even though HO is 1/2 O gauge, when considering 3 dimensions, weight and volume is dramatic.  ie, a 2X2X2" cube is 8 square inches and a 4X4X4 is 64 square inches so bulk and weight increases significantly when doubling dimensions.   That's why the grand kids can play with the lionel stuff but not the HO! 

Each scale has it's advantages.  GN, being in the sparsely populated area of the north west, didn't get all the publicity that the eastern and west coast California railroads got, so modeling GN in HO gave me the largest selection possible. 

Until the last 10 years, or so, there wasn't much made in O gauge.  Not until MTH and 3rd rail started making GN steam engines.  Lionel, for the most part, has only slapped on a GN decal on a steam engine and called it GN when GN never even had such engines, ie: hudsons, yellowstones and other steam engines that didn't have a belpaire firebox on it.

My O gauge GN steam:

Except for the 3rd rail M-2, all MTH:

As I like to say 'GN and NP were joined at the hip' and GN leased engines from DM&IR so I also have a 3rd rail NP Z-5 yellowstone, Z-8 challenger and a MTH DM&IR M-4 yellowstone.

GN big blue scheme was introduced with the FP45 in early 67. The first three SD 45 were delivered in the Simplified Empire builder scheme. After that all new engines were in the big blue. By the merger probably half the fleet had been repainted. NP didn't start changing to cascade green until the late sixties and even then it was only on new rolling stock. CB&Q with with the delivery of the SD45 in the premerger scheme of Cascade Green and black, White nose stripes, and side panel. I have seen photos of this color scheme as early as late 67 on Burlington engines although they were for publicity shots. After the merger the White strip on the side would go away and this would be the merger scheme. I run 60s to the merger in my world. I now just starting to add some NP to my roster. There is a member who does the merger period. This in its self leads allows for infinite combinations of engine consists and way car uses. It still would be nice if someone made the U25/28C as all three roads had them on their rosters.  

So red boxcar it is, I'm pre-1967 ACL/SAL merger.

Thanks guys!

Sam:

Enjoying the pictures of your GN-based layout. Good stuff.

Agree with you on the PFM sound and adjust-ability quality. I have a (now) unused PFM Mini-Sound console, the 04 Bypass Filter w/external bass speaker, and the PFM coil spring reverb. As you well know, you can just about replicate any whistle, and stage of cutoff/labor in the exhaust, et al, with PFM. Excellent stuff. 

If you would like a really great deal on my PFM Mini system, just shoot me an email and I can make you a deal you can't refuse!

Laming,

Thanks for the offer but I've got 5 of the PFM sound systems.  Also, have 4 of the earlier PFM sound systems but don't use them anymore.

If you have any RF traps or square speakers, I'd be interested in those.

email: samparfitt@fuse.net

Sam

Hi again Sam:

Doesn't seem to be much demand for the old PFM 1 or 2 consoles, eh?

As for RF traps: Are those the bare copper wire wound black spools with a ceramic diode on top? If so, I may have a few.

Andre

Andre,

There's some people still buying the PFM 2 consoles but the PFM 1's are, in my opinion, worth less than 50 bucks. 

Yep, that's the traps: I'm hoping to find like 10-20 of them.

sam

Cool. Just learned something. Question, What did you use to cover the yellow to make the stripe?

I put masking tape on a piece of glass and cut it with a steel straight edge ruler for masking all the colors.

Painted in order: Yellow, Pullman Green, then Omaha Orange. Would that be correct? 

Usually best to go from light to dark, ie, yellow, orange and green last.

Thanks, I see how you did the stripe now. 

GN W-1 electric assembly.

Base assembly:

Just the reverse of disassembly.

Head lights:

I wired up 4 12 volt bulbs for the 4 head lights. 

Access to the headlight area is difficult so I used some 1/8" diameter shrink tubing to pull the bulbs through the front head light casings. 

After the bulbs were pulled through the casings, I put some short pieces  of heat shrink tubing on each bulb, a little carpenters glue and pushed them into the casings, letting the curved bulb stick out for a lens cover.

The lead weight was added and the the wires taped to the roof of the engine so they don't get snagged by the motors.  Some EMS RC radio connectors were used to make the base removable from the top structure.

Testing:

Six screws hold the base to the top.

I had trouble with the engine binding on curves. 

1) I had the lead/trailing trucks backwards as the brake cylinders were hitting the steps.

2) Even with 48" minimum curves, I had to bend the steps out a little for clearance.  Fortunately, the steps are screwed on so they can be removed for smaller radii.  These would best be truck mounted.

It's difficult to get the perfect narrow lines as found on factory painted engines.  As you can see in the picture, I applied a little too much green paint so it was thicker than needed and the tape rippled the green paint a little.  Pictures always expose glaring errors whereas, when the engine is sitting on track, even at close range, it's difficult to see those errors.

Interesting, when I paint multi-colored steam engines, those ripples never show up: must be my disdain for diesels!: and that's only in HO, whereas I have a bunch in O gauge (figure that one out!).

sam

Wow Sam, excellent post on painting your W-1.  Looks as good as anything I've seen, custom or production.  Great Job, Sir!

Regards,

Jerry

Thanks, Jerry.

SP AC-6 4-8-8-2 just arrived on the GN property!

GN interfaced with the SP in Oregon and California: That's my rationale for having an SP engine, plus I like them  

This is by Key and made in 1984, factory painted.  I'll be adding the Sacramento grey boiler paint to it.  Cam motor with direction headlight and tender light.

Extremely well detailed.  Besides all the piping, Key even added flex hose between the piping to the articulated set of drivers.  Piping running towards the tender is also a nice detail along with the plate deck between the engine and tender.   Nicely detailed cab with a removable roof.

With all that extra piping, one came loose and was touching the wire connecting the drawbar.  Also, replaced the drawbar with a scissors type drawbar for better contact.

Still have to add window glass, marker lights, paint gauges, valves and crew.

Surprised SP didn't use larger tenders on these monsters as it is a yellowstone, only in reverse!

Sam

The later AC classes did have MUCH larger tenders. Look up AC-8, AC-10, AC-11, and AC-12 classes.

Hotwater,

Good point, I forgot about those huge square tenders on the later models.

Sam

A good friend of 36 years called and wanted to know if I wanted a couple of cab-forwards....that was a no brainer   

The AC-5 flat face and an AC-7.  Brand new, never run.  Made around 1984.

AC-7:

Lots of detail.  Flex hoses between engine and articulated drivers, fully detailed cab with removable roof.  The tender trucks are cool in that they are sprung plus, since they are 6 wheel, the truck articulates vertically.  The AC-7 has the huge tender and the compound air pumps are on the fire box door.

Right side:

Tender:

deck and cab:

Left side:

AC-5:

One thing nice when they aren't painted is one is able to see all the fine detail.

Compound air pumps mounted on the side of the engine.

samparfitt posted:

SP AC-6 4-8-8-2 just arrived on the GN property!

I can imagine what it was like walking across the "back porch" while the train was at speed , or did they???

Bob Delbridge posted:

samparfitt posted:

SP AC-6 4-8-8-2 just arrived on the GN property!

I can imagine what it was like walking across the "back porch" while the train was at speed , or did they???

The rare occasion that a hobo mistakenly rode the "Monkey Deck", he was usually found gassed/scalded to death after one or two snow sheds/tunnels. It didn't take long for the "word to get passed" about NOT ridding on the "Monkey Deck".

UP 4-12-2 bald face by Key.

Went to the Springfield, Ohio flea market and saw the engine at a good price.

Another excuse to get it: GN interfaced with UP in Oregon.

Also, only single engine with 12 drivers   

Also, has a 3rd piston.

Full cab detail.

Smoke door hatch opens:

3rd piston moves via attachment to one driver.

Auger in tender:

Spare flanged driver.  With 48" minimum radii, I'll add this driver.

See through walk boards:

Sam

Springfield meet:

Held on county fairgrounds and takes up two buildings. 

I've gotten some of my best 'deals' at this flea market over the last 30 years.

A couple of layouts were set up.  One fellow has, what looks to be 'like new' or mint pre war and post war Lionel trains.

SP AC-4 flat face 4-8-8-2.

I bid on this at an online auction and lost but the high bidder reneged and I was the next high bidder.   Another 34 year old engine made in 1984 that was never run.

By Key, factory painted with removable cab roof, well detailed cab interior and lots of piping.

This should be the last cab forward.  The AC-4 through 6 will be painted with a Sacramento grey boiler while the AC-7 will just be black.

Sam

I really like that model of the "Bald Face" UP 9000 class. Would you mind post a few photos of the side with the double Walschearts valve gear arrangement?  I sure wish Sunset/3rd Rail or MTH would issue this model version in 3-Rail O Scale. 

hot H2O,

Here's the two sides.

Sam

Thanks. The double gear is on the right, Engineer's, side, and sure adds to the extra detail.

Functioning caboose marker lights.

Picked up 7 of Utah pacific (sold by tomar) caboose marker lights.  Nice that they are still in business as the last ones were bought about 3 decades ago!  Nice that they don't try to make a profit on shipping with a reasonable 4 bucks for shipping.

tomar web site:

https://tomarindustries.com/up.htm         

Already have them in some of my 'cabeese' and will finish up the others.  Can get them with small bulbs but figured some LED's would be cheaper and easier on the battery.  They come with jewels.

Figure I can also put them on the front of the cab forwards.  Easy access since the markers are on the cab.  I can grind off the tops  of the caboose markers to get them to look like the front engine markers.

Sam

Sam,

Nice. The lights on the FRONT of locomotives are referred to as Class Lights, and would normally show white to the front, for an extra. Green color to the front would indicate that a second section was following (passenger service), and red color to the front would indicate that the locomotive was backing up, i.e. red to the rear.

DM&IR M-4 2-8-8-4 by Westside.

Picked up a test run only yellowstone.

It's by Samhungsa so that persuaded me to get it.

Has nice detail including cab detail and a functioning closed cab.

The box also has a caboose, which is the only example that I know of included with an engine.

sam

Comparing the Westside M-4 to the Tenshodo M-4.

The Westside has an elesco feed water heater in front of the smoke stack.

The Tenshodo has more fine detail than the westside, ie, door outlines in front of cab, boiler jacket stays, extra piping and see through running boards.

The tenshodo tender has marker lights and see through castings on the truck wheel side frames.

The tenshodo also cost about twice as much as the westside (at least on what I paid for them) so you have to weigh the cost of what you're comfortable with versus detail.  The tenshodo is also already painted.

The westside gives a very nice running engine with nice detail plus a nice caboose thrown in for a reasonable price. 

Sam

Sam:

In a very strange turn of events, I am re-interested in my small steam and a TOC19 (Turn of the 19th Century) small layout.

However, like you, I prefer PFM 2 sound for steam engines. A few questions along this line:

* Is there a cottage industry/individual that has figured out a way to piece together/sell in-tender modules?

* What speaker would be a good replacement for the 1" (?) PFM face ported speaker?

* Is there a substitute for the contact capacitor?

What can you tell me about trying to model steam using PFM 2?

Thanks much for any input.

Andre

Andre,

I only use the PFM speakers as they are very high quality and give the bass sounds.   They are difficult to find now but can be found on ebay.

You can make your own sound boards.  I go to radio shack and get 47UF capacitors (two go in series) and a 473J (green capacity) in series with the cam contact.

Another hard part to get is the PFM choke (RF trap) but they do show up on ebay.

I also get a bridge rectifier from radio shack for the 1.5 v bulbs (LEDS).

I have some extra cams if you need those ($3.50 each plus a buck for shipping).  These cams came from Tenshodo and are what they used on their engines.

I put an X over one axle on a driver and pull the driver off and put the cam on and then, re-insert the driver.  A wheel puller is best for doing this.  You will also have to cut a slot in the retaining plate that holds the drivers to the frame to make room  for the cam.

I've done so many of my engine that I'm low on speakers and chokes (RF traps) and will have to wait until I find them for sale on ebay.

Below are pictures of parts needed plus schematics.  The one picture is of the instructions that come with a LTM kit so if you buy one of those, it actually shows the parts for a sound system.

The LTM doesn't include a speaker.   You should be able to use a speaker for DCC.

Sam

Good stuff. I've had a soft spot for the GN for a while as I don't live too far from their line into Seattle, nor the SP&S, which they owned jointly with the NP.

I rode the Empire Builder from Chicago to Seattle back in September, sadly a few years late for riding on a GN train, of course.

GN O-8 2-8-2 open cab from westside.

Picked up a Mike that just came in today.

Things that needed fixing:

1.  piping on one side loose and needed soldering.

2. piping from front air compressor needed soldering.

3. whistle broken off and re-soldered.

4. Injector loose and re-soldered.

5. Lift bar on tender broken and needed re-soldering.

6. both hand rails loose to the ladders on back of tender and re-soldered.

7. screw missing holding motor to mount.

8. screw missing on trailing truck, wheels frozen in trailing truck plus side frames too close and also binding the wheel axle and spring missing on one side of journal on trailing truck.

9.  Journals on geared axle frozen to axle.

Other than that, no problems.

Took a few hours to fix but, I can't complain, I got it pretty cheap.

I now have a westside closed cab (that one had no problems) and an Oriental limited closed cab.  The OL is real nice, FP glacier park, coast drive, movable sand and cab hatches, and directional lights.   Paid twice as much for the OL but the westside is by Samhungsa and has a lot of nice detail.  A nice feature of the westside tender is how low mounted the trucks are to the tender frame (very scale).

Sam:

Thank you very much for such a quick and informational reply.

As of a few nights ago, I have started watching eBay for the module kits/etc. I have about three traps on hand, and a couple of speaker-less modules. I'm hoping to see some 02A tender modules pass through, and if so, I will try to snag them. I guess I could try to build my own, but I did like the ease of the constant light/etc that the modules offered.

I'm still in the process of digging through my stash of steam stuff to see just what all I still have left. I am bitterly regretting selling off some of my stash several years ago. I seem to regret almost every model railroad sell-off I have. (Hm, is there a lesson there?)

As for needing the better bass that the PFM steel enclosure speakers (like the face-ported one pictured above) can provide: Though I would love to have those PFM speakers again, I used (still have) the 02 Bypass w/woofer and it makes a dramatic difference, so a good quality DCC speaker for the tender will probably be okay.

IF there was a DCC system that can do what PFM2 can do... then I'd be open to such... but to date I've NEVER heard a DCC steam sound system that can give me what the PFM system gives. As I'm sure you well know, the on-the-fly adjust-ability of the exhaust cut-off, wheel noise, and that wonderful reverb on the whistle, et al, just isn't there in DCC.

Don't know if I'd still be interested in a small steam/small layout if staying with PFM isn't practical, it's that important to me.

All fer now!

Andre

Andre,

The DCC makes it pretty easy for present modelers to get nice diesels with nice sound.  My layout was started back in 1979 and, if I switched over to DCC, I'd have to rip out all the wiring and start over.  I'm partial to brass steam as they have tons of detail and, if made after 1975 (or so), they run great with the can motors (else I have to re-motor and re-gear them). 

I thought I had enough sound parts to do all my engines: actually I did, but I have acquired about 30 more engines in the last year and a half so I'll have to watch ebay for PFM sound parts. 

=====

P51,

Post some pictures of your On30 layout.  Would like to see it.

I also do RC airplanes (going by your handle) and have about twelve 8'-10' wingspan warbirds: complete with retracts, closing gear doors, full cockpits, functioning canopies and cowl flaps.  Gotta' have my toys!

Sam

Miller signs.

Picked up a GN sign plus some that I remember when I was a lot younger!

A&P, Texaco, Williams paint, reddy kilowatt and champion plugs.

I'm impressed by the complexity of the sign yet at a very reasonable cost.

Sam

BLI brass hybrid's GN S-2 4-8-4 Northerns.

I got them when they first came out several weeks ago but had to send them in to the service department as both engines were shorting out, intermittently, and smoke not properly working on one.  It took awhile but they got everything fixed and all is working fine, now.

It turned out the drivers were shorting on the boiler.

They did put a lot of detail on these engines from boiler jacket stays to functioning closed cab, windows, crews, cab detail, etc.  The cab light comes on first and as the engine starts to move, the cab light goes out and either the engine or tender light comes on.  It really smokes nice and is comparable to O gauge smoke units.

The boiler and tender tank are brass but the front/rear and tender truck frames are plastic.  Unusual, at least for brass engines, electrical pick up in that one side of tender and engine wheels are hot while the other is ground. 

Sam

samparfitt posted:

P51,

Post some pictures of your On30 layout.  Would like to see it.

You can check out the link at the bottom of my signature on this post, there are plenty of shots there.

As for planes, I never got into model planes after seeing people put a lot of money into detailed RC stuff that crashed with spectacular results. I saw a 1/6 scale B-17 pretty much shred itself into pieces on a high speed pass at an event in my teens, and it hadn't hit anything. I never forgot that.

I have flown in some neat WW2 planes, including (but not limited to), a real P-51, B-17, B-24, B-25, T-6 and others...

P51,

Nice looking layout.  One thing I find about narrow gaugers: they ACTUALLY like to build and modify stuff, no 'pull out of the box' and put on the layout!  Good work.

sam

SP GS-4 4-8-4 from Westside.

Just delivered to go along with the cab forwards; plus I like multi colored steam engines

Factory painted, made in 1980.  A good runner.  No cab detail, unlike the Key model, but it can be bought at a very reasonable price.  The handrails around the cab need some 'touching up'.

Sam

Great GS-4 model. I'm a big SP fan as well and have seen 4449 on several occasions and ridden behind it a few times, as I live just over 100 miles from her current engine house location in Portland. I've also seen the GS-6 in St Louis in 2002.

I saw 4449 at the age of 7 during its run on the Freedom Train as well.

If I modeled standard gauge, no matter what scale, I'd had gotten a GS-4 for sure.

Nice GS-4 model. I notice you selected the "as delivered" version with the small "Southern Pacific Lines" lettering high up on the tender sides. For what it's worth, the SP did away with that lettering styling beginning in 1946, and changed to the large "bill-board"  SOUTHERN PACIFIC styling. I still have two HO Westside GS-4 models, in my display case; one de-skirted black #4444, and one "Daylight" #4449.

Hot H2O,

Thanks for the info.  Buying on ebay, I can't get too picky.   In theory, my GN railroad is modeled in 1938 but you can find discrepancies as I'll buy something if it appeals to me: some of my GN motive power is from the 40's.

Sam

samparfitt posted:

Comparing the Westside M-4 to the Tenshodo M-4.

The Westside has an elesco feed water heater in front of the smoke stack.

 

 

The tenshodo also cost about twice as much as the westside (at least on what I paid for them) so you have to weigh the cost of what you're comfortable with versus detail.  The tenshodo is also already painted.

The westside gives a very nice running engine with nice detail plus a nice caboose thrown in for a reasonable price. 

Sam

I just noticed this series of nice photos. I'm a bit curious though about that model with the Worthing Type S Feedwater System, as I dod not know that DM&IR ever had any of their M Class yellowstone delivers that way. I can only remember seeing photos of the Elesco equipped locomotives.  Sure are nice looking models!

Hot H2O,

Hey, I just work here!: I'm GN but, usually, the importers usually get their facts straight on their products.

===============

Milwaukee EP-2 bi polar electric by custom brass.

Just arrived.  Two motors for each end unit.  Interesting how the center section just fits over some pins located on each end section. It runs well on the track but you have to be careful on picking it up since the attachments are not permanent.

The last picture shows the paint scheme that I'll use.

Milwaukee was a direct competitor to the GN.  I believe they were the last to reach the west coast after the GN and NP.  They decided to extend their electrification for several hundred miles.  GN considered it in the late 40's/50's but deemed it too expensive, plus diesels were showing up. 

It reminds me of the Lionel pre-war years.

Sam

UP FEF-2 4-8-4 Northern factory painted grey by Key in 1991.

A very detailed model that I just got off of ebay.

1.  functional drop coupler.

2.  directional lighting

3.  coast drive.

4.  see through walk boards.

5.  removable sand hatches.

6. 3 operational doors on top, in front of cab.

7.  opening rear cab doors.

8.  functional deck plate.

9.  full cab detail

10.  3 operational water hatches on tender.

I was expecting the engineer's head to rotate!

Back in the 70's I used to think that they couldn't get any more detailed than the Tenshodo engines.

sam

UP Big-Boy, 4-8-8-4 by Key.

I used to have one of these by Tenshodo but sold it around 1980 so I could buy a 1962 Chevy impala SS convertible.

It doesn't have all the fancy movable hatches, coast drive, etc, that the previous northern has but it's nicely detailed and runs great.  With a can motor, full cab detail, deck plate, see through walk boards and movable pilot coupler.

Come this Fall I've got a few engines to paint!

ps: the last picture was posted vertical, not sure why the software like to rotate it!

Sam

UP 4-6-6-4 Challenger by Key.

Was looking for a Tenshodo FP grey challenger but found this Key model instead.

It has to be the most detailed engine that I've ever owned, or seen in HO scale.

1.  Coast drive.

2.  directional headlight/tender light.

3.  moveable pilot coupler.

4.  Functioning sand and access hatches on both sand domes with detailed interior.

5.  Functioning access hatches in front of cab roof with detailed interior.

6.  Functioning cab roof hatch.

7.  see through walk boards.

8.  Functioning doors on back of cab.

9.  Cab deck plate. 

10. functioning water hatches on the tender.

11. Tons of detail piping and running gear.

12.  full cab detail

13. FP grey with yellow stripes.

Sam

Substitute speakers for the PFM sound system.

I got some sugar cube speakers (and enclosures are required)

https://tonystrains.com/produc...rsonic-mini-speaker/         

The sugar cube speakers worked great for the PFM sound system.
A speaker enclosure is needed for proper sound (not sure why they sell the speaker and enclosure separate as both are required).
They measure about 3/8" X 1/2" and are super thin.  The enclosure adds about another 1/2" to the depth.
Compared to the PFM speaker (in photo) is about an inch square and about 1/4" thick.
Each set is 16 bucks.

Sam

After the NMRA Div-7 meeting we went over to Bob Lawson's very nice layout that is super detailed.

Video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?...amp;feature=youtu.be      

GN F-8 2-8-0 by Tenshodo.

Just acquired this engine on e-bay.  Made in 1975 and, at most, just test run and, virtually, new with no visible wear on the wheels.   Factory painted by Tenshodo: some errors as domes are all green, piping not painted black and, manufacturers always like to do this (put silver on the cylinder heads) as only the S-2 had this and no black stripe along the front of the belpair fire box.  Easy fixes plus some dull coat.  Most manufacturer's were adding can motors by mid 70's but easy add for this open frame motor engine.

Very reasonably priced at $235 (delivered), and you can't beat the detail that one gets on a brass engine.

Just ordered more scalecoat paint from minuteman so I'll be painting up the seven new engines acquired since last winter.

samparfitt posted:

GN F-8 2-8-0 by Tenshodo.

Just acquired this engine on e-bay.  Made in 1975 and, at most, just test run and, virtually, new with no visible wear on the wheels.   Factory painted by Tenshodo: some errors as domes are all green, piping not painted black and, manufacturers always like to do this (put silver on the cylinder heads) as only the S-2 had this and no black stripe along the front of the belpair fire box.  Easy fixes plus some dull coat.  Most manufacturer's were adding can motors by mid 70's but easy add for this open frame motor engine.

Very reasonably priced at $235 (delivered), and you can't beat the detail that one gets on a brass engine.

Just ordered more scalecoat paint from minuteman so I'll be painting up the seven new engines acquired since last winter.

 

The first run of the locomotives had a more detailed paing job on it, I purchased one many years ago, still sitting in the box.  I'll have to get it out and post a photos of it.    The green is off on all the Tenshodo locomotives, instead of Glacier Green, it is Pullman Green, but now we are picking nits.  

Yes, these locomotives are out there for a song, they run great, and will be running great long after you and I depart this earth.  I have one on the layout now that runs every op session, and has been running on my layout since 1987.   Eventually, I want to toss a sound decoder in mine, just have a NCE D102 non-sound decoder in it now.  Put a can motor into mine also, the open frame motor was a growler.   

Regards,

Jerry

UP big boy 4-8-8-4 by Tenshodo.

Just arrived from purchase on ebay.

1981 run, factory painted, see through walkboards, boiler lagging clamps, can motor, detailed cab.  This model appears to have, at most, just test run and, probably, has been in the box for 25 years.  A number plate is below the cab floor indicating year and number of how many made and on the other side of the deck is a crown shield indicating a 'crown' series.  Reportedly, only 19 came into the USA.

I put it next to the Key big boy for comparison.  As usual, the Tenshodo is longer by several feet as they built the engines around the scale wheels.  The Tenshodo has additional details, ie, see through walk boards, wood grain tender deck, lagging clamps but the Tenshodo also cost me twice as much as the Key model.   Each has  their own merits so it depends on the individual on what he is willing to pay.

ps: that tilted fire box door is an easy fix.

Sam

Very nice. Wonder why it is so much longer than the other model, or,,,,,,,why is the other model so much shorter? Which model scales out to be the correct length?

Also, you might want to straighten the smokebox front.

Winter project:
Put classification/head lights on steam engines and caboose marker lights.
I've got 8 new engines to paint so they'll get updated before painting.

Found some good instructions online (see below) for installation.
Ordered some 0603 bright glow led's from Richmond controls company (1st picture).
The LED's are, I believe, .6 of a millimeter.  For an extra $1.50 each, I got some #36 wires already attached to them (wasn't about to try soldering those on!).
Also, got some axle wipers from them for the cabeese.

From digikey, I ordered the necessary parts to make small circuit boards to provide the proper voltage to the LED's (2nd picture)

Steam classification light installation (2 pages):

http://markschutzer.com/Markers/Marker_page1.htm

Cabeese marker light installation:

http://ssandifer.com/Lay/Howar.../LEDMarker/Index.htm    

For the cabeese, I'm using tomar's marker lamps as they are already drilled out.
For the steam, no one makes drilled out classification lights so I'll follow the below instructions on getting that done.  I bought some extra marker lights (cal scale 190-280 marker lights)

Web site for caboose marker lights: 

I use CM-63 (no lights included) but they also sell them with lights included.

https://tomarindustries.com/up.htm

LED pre-wired from Richmond controls company:

LED's  GW0603-DL06: pre-wires and want both wires coming out the same side(ditch lights wiring).  Cost any extra buck 50 for them to solder the wires on but I think it's worth it.

EZ61-WPRS: truck wipers.

They don't take credit cards and have to send them a check and list of items to order from them.

http://www.richmondcontrols.com/

Sam

part 2:

The #55 drill bit is ideal for drilling out the marker lights.
The drill worked perfectly on drilling out the marker lights from cal scale.
I also was able to drill out the original marker lights on a GN mike (see picture). The marker lights have to be removed, first, before drilling them out.  I found the small hobby drill press best for doing this.  A resistance soldering set is also, probably a must to remove/re-solder small parts to keep other parts from falling off due to too much heat via conventional soldering methods.  I also drilled a hole in the front fire box to route the wires.  I'll be using the inside hole of the marker lights (see picture) so only the front and outside will have colored lights as there really is no room to drill a hole in the back or bottom of the marker light. I'll be spraying the LED's and wires with some clear lacquer thinner to seal the wires in case they touch the brass engine components, thus preventing any shorts.  

The ready made LED's with attached wires from Richmond controls gives a nice yellow glow good for the headlights.
I also got some LED's from digikey that are a white light that I'll use for the marker lights since they will be colored, anyway. These have no wire leads. No one sells 30 gauge wire in reasonable lengths so I took apart one of my old open frame motors (they are good for something!).  The LED's are extremely small so it took some time to solder the wires to the LED's.  Flux and a very small pointed soldering iron is needed with only a split second touch to solder the wire to each side of the LED (I have ruined 2, so far but, since they were so cheap, I thought I'd try it).  Some pointed, self closing needle nose tweezers were used to hold the LED.  If I need more, I'll get more glow LED's with the wires already attached as, for only 3 bucks apiece with wires attached, it's worth it.

For the cab forward I used Tomar's caboose marker lights.  These have a brass tube access from the back and worked best for the cab forwards, eliminated have to route wires through the cab front. I cut the top and bottom off the caboose marker lights so they match modern steam marker lights.  The marker lights are too small to solder so I used thin CA to secure the marker lights to the cab front.
A hole was drilled in the boiler front to route all the wires.

In the picture, the cab forward has the yellow glow in the headlight and the white LED's in the marker lights.

I diverted from the previously attached instructions on providing the proper amount of current to the LED's.  I found just 1.5 volts bridge across two diodes sufficient to light the LED's. 

Sam

Part 2 (cont)

Finished doing the remaining engines.

I was able to use the existing marker lights that came with each engine but it was nice to have the cal scale available as 'back up'.  A couple marker lights broke free when drilling and I had to re-solder them back on.  Also, from drilling holes in thicker brass, ie head lamps, I went through 3 of the #55 bits so buy them by the 'dozen'. 

I drilled a small hole in the fire box front to route the wires.

This cab forward was done the same way as in the previous post.

The tender lights also go drilled out.  I noticed some tenders have slots where it appears that marker lights are hung (ie, big boy, DM&IR yellowstone) so I'll have to research and see if the lights were on the back of the tenders.

A caboose got the tomar marker  lights.  A couple holes were drilled in the bottom  plate so wires can be run to the trucks.

I was thinking it would be cool to drill out the number boards but that would, probably, be difficult to do and I've never seen any hollow ones (save O gauge).

Sam

Picked up another Milwaukee EP-2 electric.  This one is factory painted but it has foam damage to the paint.  I got it so cheap that I couldn't 'pass it up'.  I'll have to strip it but it won't take much more to paint two versus one, anyway.

I drilled out the headlights for the new LED's.

8 engines to paint.

Began disassembling the engines.  Each will be painted twice with a base coat of black.  After all engines are painted, I'll go back to each one and mask off for appropriate other colors.

GN O-8 mike open cab.

Had to drill out the tender bottom for speaker holes and cut an opening in the driver retaining plate as a cam had to be added to one of the drivers for chuffing sound.

The sand and steam domes were removed (held on by a screw on this model) to save on masking, later on, since the boiler will be painted GN green.

 After cleaning all parts with water, dish washing liquid and some white vinegar, the parts were dried in the toaster oven for an hour (save the wheels that have insulation). 

Used scalecoat #10 black to air brush the parts and then cook at 200 degrees for 2 hours while the wheels will be air dried.

The tender wheels were hand painted as it quicker than masking them off, including the axle ends and the parts are too small to notice any brush strokes, especially since the truck side frames hide the bulk of the wheel.

Sam

UP 4-12-2:

Nice detailing on this engine.

The cab is removable so it will be painted green along with all the gauges/valves, etc being painted white/red.

See through walkboards and lots of piping:

Nice motor/gear box setup with both attached to each other via brass stock to prevent racking. 

A functioning 3rd cylinder where piston is connected to the 2nd driver plus the offset for the cylinder cutoff has the 3rd cylinder offset mounted to it.  (going to be fun putting that back together!).

First coat added.  Black always gets 2 coats whereas the masked off, other colors only get one coat.

Sam

Good day at the Div 4 (Dayton, Ohio) flea market

1.  Lights 4 models: These LED's are even smaller than my 0603's. All wired and have resistors and bridge rectifiers for 3 bucks each so this is definitely my new source.   5 per package for $15.50.  Got 3 warm light packages (UP0), 2 green (UP5), 2 packages of wire connector (master pack)  for multiple connections, wired connectors , 2 packages of wire connectors. (WC10) and some telephone wire that stretches is bumped. 

Here's what the contents looks like for the connectors.  Left is 2 prong connectors and the right is a 'package' deal consisting of a variety of connectors: will be nice to hooking up the marker and head lights to one connector.  At $10 and $12, respectively, prices are very reasonable.

Picked up two nice all wood buildings.  At 40 bucks apiece, I thought that was cheap!  A passenger station painted to GN colors and a lumber company.   Found some temporary space on my layout.

Last was a Sunset SP AC-9 2-8-8-4.  Been looking for one but they are hard to find and they go for a lot of money.  I got this for less than 1/2 of what I saw one go for last week on a web site.   I prefer Key or PSC models but those are 3-4 times more than what I paid for this baby.  The front is broken off but an easy fix with some soldering.  I'll probably strip and re-paint her after drilling out the marker lights (OK, they should be called classification lights!).

Sam

Key Big Boy.

Disassembly for painting.

After removing the boiler from the running gear, interesting in that the back lead weight was just 'snug' fit into the boiler so I was able to remove it, along with the front weight.  A couple loose wires (piping) had to be re-soldered.

The cab was screwed on so it'll receive the green interior.

Since these are handmade, which means all parts may not be universally interchangeable, all moving parts are kept with their respective front/back drivers as well as the drivers.

Tomar marker lights added to the tender after the top/bottoms were 'nipped' off as they are caboose marker lights (or were!).

Two coats were sprayed on, today with the usual 200 degrees for 2 hours in the toaster oven with all wheels air drying.

Sam

SP AC-7 by Key.

Disassembly for painting.

Removing the running gear from the boiler was a little 'tricky' due to all the 'super' detail added to this engine.  I had to bend or move 'piping' on both sides of the boiler to remove the drive gear set under the cab and the same with removing the boiler front from the boiler.

They had a wire connector to easily remove the back drivers from the front drivers.  A lot of piping on the back drivers.

I added another sound cam since the ones I use have plastic between the contacts and, thus, easier to set up the chuffing.  The original cam is smaller in diameter so I had to make a new hole in the driver retaining plate plus move the cam to another driver where a brass rod between the two frames did not interfere  with the cam.   I find drilling multiple holes is the easiest way for me to make a square hole.

An 'X' is placed on the end of the driver that receives the new cam: saves time not having to re-quarter the driver.

A press is used to remove/install one wheel/cam.

After the cam/wheel added, side rods re-added and pushed over the track to insure no binding.

While using a tooth brush to clean all parts before painting, I, luckily, saw that I pulled two of the springs off the functional truck frames and, fortunately, they didn't go flying off into the unknown and re-inserted them.

I figured it would be easier to first paint (and mask off for the black) the cab interior on these cab forwards so the cab was painted with burlington green.   Also, did the UP big boy and 4-12-2 cabs.

Tomar caboose lights added to the back of the tender: again, top/bottom snipped off to make 'modern' looking marker lights.

Sorry but, none of your images shoed up.

Hot water,

I am seeing them.  Try getting out and back into the web site and see if that works.

Also, we'll see if others are having the same problem.

Sam

Now only the first 5 photos are labeled "Image Not Found", while all the remaining photos show up.

Hot water,

Just noticed your comments on the Big Boy (I'm slow sometimes!).

As I mentioned in the post, the engine is built around the scale drivers so the engines length is longer, thus the Key is more accurate for scale length, but, when on the track, by itself, it's academic.  

I also mentioned at the end of the post that the boiler front will be adjusted.

Sam

Hot water,

I did get an error on the 6th picture so I posted what I printed and then edited the post for the remaining pictures. 

Even though they show up for me, I may have to delete those first 5 and re-post them.

Sam

hot water,

I just deleted the 1st 5 and re-added them.  Try getting out and back in and see if that worked.

thanks,

sam

Sam,

Got them all now. Looks like a heck of a project. Keep 'em coming.