Grounding question need answers

Yes, you can either have both the track and accessory circuits share the same ground wire, assuming it is of adequate size, or tie together two separate ground wires.  If you use separate wires for each, both can be powered by the same transformer.  

Jeff B. Haertlein posted:

I finished wiring up my #497 Coaling Station and the accessory needs to be grounded. My question is I am using a ZW for accessories, but the trackage on the layout is via my MTH Z4000. What I need to know is, can I ground the coaling station via my ZW, and yet can I ground the same trackage with the Z4000? Right now the siding that the station is on, is not yet powered with the Z4000 which I will be doing later as the siding will be powered via a toggle switch and the siding will be isolated from the mainline power.  Thanks.

I'll tell you what many told me on this forum when I asked the question?  All transformer grounds should be tied together.  If something is fundamentally wrong, you will find it when you do this.  Just my 2 common cents.  Others out there can tell you to minutia on the answer to your question.  If I'm right, most are sequestered at home without York and are logged on for much needed respite.  Good luck, and Godspeed to all during these very difficult times.  

The issue is phasing must be done to use two transformers together on a common ground. The solution (for new age items only) if they fail to work is to take ONE of the home ac plugs and flip it over (maybe file the large prong or swap wire position internally, on occasion mfgs screw it up)

For older transformers you should check everything square one.  Go to Youtube and look for "phasing two transformers for use together" by Lionel. Mike is not boring and simply explains/refreshes us on ac waves and WHY we have to phase things. Unphased may lead to 0v or double max volts (50v) with handles in some positions (even off)

Don't skimp on your return ground bus. It may be doing all the work for both transformers depending how you run it back... (about 30a if you add a ZW+Z4k maxes)

clear as mud

Mike or I ? 

Watching may clear the water   I'd link you there but my OS/browser doesn't like Youtube this week.

I noticed a couple of situations where folks had half the ground wire gauge they needed. #1-12g hot, #2-12g hot, sharing a 12g common. Com.should be 8g-10g to support 2-12g hots.... don't skimp on the ground.  "We" as a collective don't mention it often enough

Yes. Just make sure the transformers are in phase.
Wire the track normally, and the station normally (ZW ABCD), making sure the Z4000 black wires go to outside track rails. Since the 497 does not have a independent ground connection, run a wire to the ZW U from the Z4000 black (or a second wire to the outside rails from the ZW U, if more convenient) .
When adding the switch for the siding, be sure to place the toggle switch on the wire going to the center rail so that the common ground is maintained.

OK thanks.

Jeff B. Haertlein posted:

...can I ground the coaling station via my ZW, and yet can I ground the same trackage with the Z4000?

Yes. This is known as common ground wiring.

If your accessory transformer does not control any other connected trackage, it doesn't need to be phased, and there are advantages in very large layouts to having transformers out of phase, but for most practical applications you will want the consistency of having multiple transformers in-phase.

MartyE has a great tutorial on phasing, much better than the explanations given by the Lionel videos.

ADCX Rob posted:

Jeff B. Haertlein posted:

...can I ground the coaling station via my ZW, and yet can I ground the same trackage with the Z4000?

Yes. This is known as common ground wiring.

If your accessory transformer does not control any other connected trackage, it doesn't need to be phased, and there are advantages in very large layouts to having transformers out of phase, but for most practical applications you will want the consistency of having multiple transformers in-phase.

MartyE has a great tutorial on phasing, much better than the explanations given by the Lionel videos.

OK that sounds like I can do this and be OK. Great! Thanks!

The only thing, Marty should have the transformers unplugged before wiring. It's safer with these transformers, but some oldies might have no "off" at the throttle, some supply type/acc. leg combos yield a "no off" too; so being unplugged then is simply safer imo. Done on a power strip, unplug that .

I've felt the voltage while messing with a Marx 100w and some 1033s, while  connecting the wires (35v-50v on slightly moist fingers tingles at the least)   I think it was because of the marx acc terminals arrangements, and it being out of phase that there was no off for anything. (about 2014, hazey recall on exactly how)

Not assuming "off" is a full disconnect is a rule for electrical & me anyhow. I do bend rules but usually with caution