Has anyone modeled an MTA garbage train? 🚇

Yes --  I have as such -- here are some photos below -- all cars are totally scratch built in 2 Rail O SCALE to run on my NYC EL Layout where they are seen.  I have a video of one of the trains running also.  

The first  4 photos BELOW are of my 2-Rail O SCALE hand built models of a typical Manhattan IRT Elevated Trash Collection train using one of the numerous mini hopper bin type collection cars with covers on each bin.  Trash would be dumped from station pails into each bin - and when full, the lid would be closed on that bin.  The Branford (aka Shoreline) Trolley Museum has one of these cars preserved from the IRT Manhattan 3rd Ave EL. These small trash collection cars from the early 1900's were out of service by 1958.   I rode the Manhattan & Bronx  3rd AVE EL very many times and saw these work trains in the 1950's.  The flat car with coal was used in winter months to for the crew to shovel coal into pails to dump the coal into coal bin wooden boxes located at ends of platforms.  The EL station agent would take his tin pail and load coal into it to carry to the coal fired pot belly stove in the station house for winter heat. Train is seen at one of my O-Scale EL Local Stations. 

FURTHER BELOW of photos (and a video) of my newer era NYCTA-MTA trash collection train and its cars;

BELOW are photos of the various more contemporary cars I built for my MTA / NYCTA Trash Collection train - seen also on my EL an at a Local Station.  ALL CARS seen in the train  are scratch built.  The trash car has removable bins (ie: like mini dumpsters on 4 wheels) There is a video of one of my trash trains passing thru a local station on my EL -  LINK HERE:  VIDEO of my Trash Train on my EL

Regards - Joe F

Beautiful work Joe they really look like the actual cars. Are they made from some balsa wood or styrene? 

I rode the old 3rd Ave el many times.  Those pictures bring back memories.  Beautiful work, Joe

Sort of?  

Mitch

Chris Lonero posted:

Beautiful work Joe they really look like the actual cars. Are they made from some balsa wood or styrene? 

Hello Chris

The Manhattan EL 28 foot long 1878 era (when prototypes were built) flat cars are all bass wood construction with metal underbody detail parts and EL style Van Dorn link & pin couplers - all from Q Car Co.   I installed the proper diamond Arch bar trucks.  The MUDC class EL passenger cars are all wood bodies I scratch built with Cast Resin EL Car Roofs from Q Car Co.,  and use Q Car Co., interior seating and underbody equipment identical and proper for those cars. I do also use some styrene, brass,  and cardstock for some parts where easier or necessary to use.  The Manhattan EL Trash Car (with hopper lids) is totally scratchbuilt built up from a styrene body sub-base and overlaid with thin smooth cardstock for rivet punching exterior detail skins.  The Floor is bass wood and underbody and coupler from Q Car Co.

NOTE: M.U.D.C.  means Multiple Unit Door Contol.  Used on formerly open end platform Gate Cars converted to closed end platform vestibule car with outside hung sliding doors (replacing gates) controlled at one point in mid train by one conductor.

The MTA cars are all scratch built -- the trash bin car and flat car are bass wood body floors.  The green bins and steel railing frames and "drop sides' panels are all made with styrene sheet and shapes.  The (unseen) Underbody details from Q Car Co. - I made my own couplers for those cars that mate with link and pin. 

The older class R type former passenger car body "box motor" with center door body was built from scratch to replicate a former passenger car rebuilt as a box motor car and was fully styrene scratchbuilt as is the mate, R-127 class Kawasaki Box Motor EP0003.Of course, the EL structure, track work, stations, buildings,  etc are all to mostly scratchbuilt --as are the lamp posts.  Autos and buses I buy - I am not THAT good at that kind of scratch building!  Quicker, easier to buy as readily available.  ---  

Regards - Joe F

BELOW are some of my photos of the prototype Manhattan IRT EL Work cars used for trash collection in action on the Manhattan 3rd Ave EL in mid 1955

=================================================================================

BELOW- north to NB Canal St Express track 5-10-1955 with trash collection car # 98 and a flat car

BELOW - North along center express track at Canal Street Express Station in 1954 showing trash collection car # 94 and a flat car on a southbound train

BELOW - JHF Neg# 1176 - my photo taken in 1954 at south end of downtown E. 34th Street local station with Manhattan Division EL Flat Car M-8 used as a coal car - the men are filling the station agents' coal storage bin for coal to be used in the El station's interior Pot Belly Coal heating stoves

BELOW - JHF Neg# 888 - my photo taken in 1954 at south end of downtown E. 34th Street local station with Manhattan Division EL Flat Car M-8 used as a coal car at rear of southbound train  - the men are filling the station agents' coal storage bin for coal to be used in the El station's interior Pot Belly Coal heating stoves. In middle is trash collection car # 98 and a flat car ahead of it with a few MUDC EL motor cars uses as "horses" to tow the train.

BELOW -- MY O SCALE Model of the identical prototype cars seen at a local station on my EL Layout

BELOW - my O SCALE Model of Manhattan El trash Collection Car # 98 - seen in my layup yards

Of course, the EL structure, track work, EL stations, buildings,  etc are all to mostly scratch-built --as are the lamp posts.  Autos and buses I buy - I am not THAT good at that kind of scratch building!  Quicker, easier to buy as readily available.

regards - Joe F

Like that trash Collection Car # 98....plans for that anywhere?  

RJR posted:

I rode the old 3rd Ave el many times.  Those pictures bring back memories.  Beautiful work, Joe

Hello RJR

Wow -- another getting rare dinosaur (like me) who rode the old Manhattan & Bronx 3rd Ave EL in its winding down heydays (1945 - 1955 Manhattan and 1955-1973 for Bronx remainder surviving portion) -- where did you live (near what station) and what years did you ride.  I rode basically from 1949 thru Mid-May 1955 in Manhattan and in Bronx from then until end of service April 1973.  I lived next to the El in the upper east side about 75 feet from an uptown local station. I photographed (B&W & COLOR) the EL (and others) extensively from about 1953 onward.

Here BELOW are just a few of my photos of my O Scale NY EL System  -- this IRT MUDC and Gate Car Elevated (models) train scenes could replicate scenes seen somewhere on the 3rd Ave EL or on either the IRT White Plains Rd Line or Woodlawn Line (via from 9th Ave EL) - but basically my EL system can run any scale model equipment subway or EL cars - BMT, IND or IRT as far as clearances.  Trolleys under the EL operate on live trolley wire. And here is a LINK to a VIDEO of one of my IRT EL MUDC Class local trains leaving one of my EL Local stations.  I am sure you well remember these (authentic EL car) sounds from your years around and on the EL  !  Video link here:    One of my Local trains departs an EL Station

Regards - Joe F

mwb posted:

Like that trash Collection Car # 98....plans for that anywhere?  

Hello MWB

Unfortunately in the early thru mid 1960's the then NYC Transit Authority removed from their file storage rooms, and destroyed, burned out at Coney Island yard dumps,  countless  thousands of photos, plans, blueprints,  expired legal documents, and correspondences, of and related to,  old IRT and BMT "Companies" and their predecessors regarding all of their EL rolling stock, equipment,  and EL lines that were long previously scrapped, between 1938 and 1960.  That included factory and shop plans for that IRT EL Work Car, unfortunately.  I worked from a shop drawing and loads of photos I took of and measured on the actual saved EL trash  car at Branford (aka Shoreline) Trolley Museum

Regards - Joe F

Joe, I lived in North Bergen, NJ, at the northern tip of Hudson County.  From Sept 50 to June 52, I attended Mt St Michaels in the Bronx, boarding.  Best route was the IND and then the 16 Webster Ave Bus, but occasionally to break the monotony, on Friday I'd walk over to the IRT end-of-line and take the IRT down to the northern terminal of the 3rd Ave El, then the 3rd Ave el down to 42nd St, and the crosstown shuttle train over to the Times Sq & the PA bus terminal, where I'd take a Public Service #61 or an Orange & Black bus to home.

Even before then during WWII, my grandmother & grandfather lived up on Lustre St need the end of the Dyer Ave Line.  Mom would occasionally want to go see them, but with the war gas was limited, so we'd take the train.  We rode the Dyer Ave Shuttle end to end.  They had 2 car open platform trains.  Loved to sit at the front.  Occasionally the conductor would call kids to the platform between the cars to let us ride outside.

If you didn't say that last batch of pictures was your layout, I'd think they were real.

RJR posted:

Joe, I lived in North Bergen, NJ, at the northern tip of Hudson County.  From Sept 50 to June 52, I attended Mt St Michaels in the Bronx, boarding.  Best route was the IND and then the 16 Webster Ave Bus, but occasionally to break the monotony, on Friday I'd walk over to the IRT end-of-line and take the IRT down to the northern terminal of the 3rd Ave El, then the 3rd Ave el down to 42nd St, and the crosstown shuttle train over to the Times Sq & the PA bus terminal, where I'd take a Public Service #61 or an Orange & Black bus to home.

Even before then during WWII, my grandmother & grandfather lived up on Lustre St need the end of the Dyer Ave Line.  Mom would occasionally want to go see them, but with the war gas was limited, so we'd take the train.  We rode the Dyer Ave Shuttle end to end.  They had 2 car open platform trains.  Loved to sit at the front.  Occasionally the conductor would call kids to the platform between the cars to let us ride outside.

If you didn't say that last batch of pictures was your layout, I'd think they were real.

Hello RJR

Unbelievable !!!!   - I was a student at the Mount from Sept. 1955 until June 1958 -- I still have my  1956-57-58 Mountie yearbooks from those years.  We probably knew the same Marist Brothers as teachers.  I have some RR / Transit modeler pals who are long ago ex Mounties - what a great safe, beautiful, unique place the Bronx and NY City was back then.

I rode the EL's the same way - walked to (and from) the from Nereid Ave /E. 238th St.  St EL Station stop -- took the train to and from to Gun Hill Rd Station, and to lower level 3rd Ave EL platforms, and train from there down to ONLY (after May 12, 1955)  the then brand new south 3rd Ave EL Terminal at E. 149th St Station -- and took the Lexington Av. Subway below, south to my Yorkville neighborhood East 80's. The Old ex-BMT and old IRT EL MUDC cars still ran on the Bronx remnant until removed 12-16-1956 and replaced with surplus old 1915-1925 era Steinway Low-V Subway Motor Cars.

I rode the 3rd Ave EL a lot prior to May 12, 1955, when it ran thru to downtown Manhattan before the Manhattan part below Harlem River closed on end of that day.. 

I also rode the Dyre Line EL Gate Cars (surplus from the 9th Ave EL closing in June 1940) with my uncle on a few joyride trips in early - mid 1953.  Remember them well.  I rode BMT gate cars on the Myrtle Ave El in Brooklyn from 1956 thru their end in mid 1958 - replaced by BMT version MUDC converted Gate cars called Q Types.  The Q's were also used solely as Express trains on the 3rd Ave El from early 1950 thru May 12, 1955, and then as Bronx locals only from them until Dec. 16, 1956, when they were removed to be overhauled and sent to Brooklyn.

I also have a great set of photo albums I created for my massive photos collection on the old NYW&B Railway -  here is a LINK to my ALBUMS PHOTO SITE of that line ----  My Photo Albums of the NY Westchester & Boston Railway .

The NYW&B Railway  had 2 local stations near the Mount St. Mike School - Kingsbridge Road Station and E. 6th Street / Sanford Blvd Station  ( Sanford Blvd becomes Pitman Ave at rear of the Mount at Mundy Lane !    E. 6th St / Sanford Blvd Station was 13 blocks east of the Mount in Mt. Vernon at Sanford Blvd & S. Fulton Ave. 

Did you know that  Mundy lane - that crooked narrow road at the rear (east) edge of the the Mount grounds was the physical divider line between Bronx & Mt Vernon -- and the county surveyor line ziz zagged back and forth along both sides of the pavement center line.  Mt Vernon on its east side had smooth concrete paving -- the west Bronx side of the street & line was broken black macadam !  So you could actually see the border line in the pavement !

The NYW&B Railway's Sanford Blvd-E. 6th St abandoned intact local station and the 4 track deep open cut R-o-W was intact (trackless) back then. Sanford Blvd. becomes Pitman Avenue at the Bronx line at Mundy Ave.   I use to walk to and hang out (and take some photos) of the old IRT Subway trains and 3rd Ave EL trains in layup at the E. 239th St.  transit Yards -- the red line on map below shows the walking routes I took.  I also ate a number of after school snacks (soda, sandwiches) at Mayers Parkway Restaurant - a fellow Mountie student classmate pal of mine was Bobby Mayer, son of the owner.  Mayers Restaurant and its huge building are now long gone but they have a Mayers Restaurant Facebook page !

Well, you had a very interesting and long, varied, travel route to and from the Mount to your Jersey Home !  Enjoyed reading your memories      -   Regards - Joe F

 my 1956 Mount Yearbook

Things of interest to me near the Mount - the BLUE LINES indicate places of interest (which have blue letter captions) and relevance to me and my memories described above - RED LINES are paths I walked to and from the School

If one googles "3rd avenue el videos", there are many videos available, including a ride the length of the line in the 50's.  There are also some from the early 1900s.

When I walked to IRT, rather than taking the 16 bus to IND, I felt the 241st station was closer.  Boarders weren't allowed off the grounds, so I never got too familiar with the streets.  I do recall the "split" street behind the campus.

Joseph Frank posted:

mwb posted:

Like that trash Collection Car # 98....plans for that anywhere?  

Hello MWB

Unfortunately in the early thru mid 1960's the then NYC Transit Authority removed from their file storage rooms, and destroyed, burned out at Coney Island yard dumps,  countless  thousands of photos, plans, blueprints,  expired legal documents, and correspondences, of and related to,  old IRT and BMT "Companies" and their predecessors regarding all of their EL rolling stock, equipment,  and EL lines that were long previously scrapped, between 1938 and 1960.  That included factory and shop plans for that IRT EL Work Card, unfortunately.  I worked from a shop drawing and loads of photos I took of and measured on the actual saved EL trash  car at Branford (aka Shoreline) Trolley Museum

Unfortunate - makes it hard to make one for myself.

Haven't modeled one yet, but I have the makings of one in my to-do queue.

In the waning days of Weaver, I ordered a pair of their undecorated 40' wood gondolas, thinking the low wooden sides that did not reach all the way to the ends of the car would be close to present-day NYCTA dumpster flatcars. As a nod to the present era, Weaver agreed to swap the friction-bearing trucks with roller-bearing ones, since that's what the prototypes have:

To this car I was to add anticlimbers, end railings, and maybe those little headlight housings. It's shorter than the prototype, but painted up in NYCTA yellow with appropriate lettering, it should pass for one. I only wish I had ordered three instead of two. Were these cars picked up by any of Weaver's successors?

---PCJ

RailRide posted:

Haven't modeled one yet, but I have the makings of one in my to-do queue.

In the waning days of Weaver, I ordered a pair of their undecorated 40' wood gondolas, thinking the low wooden sides that did not reach all the way to the ends of the car would be close to present-day NYCTA dumpster flatcars. As a nod to the present era, Weaver agreed to swap the friction-bearing trucks with roller-bearing ones, since that's what the prototypes have:

To this car I was to add anticlimbers, end railings, and maybe those little headlight housings. It's shorter than the prototype, but painted up in NYCTA yellow with appropriate lettering, it should pass for one. I only wish I had ordered three instead of two. Were these cars picked up by any of Weaver's successors?

---PCJ

Hello Peter

That car looks great -- and is pretty much a realistic version of various older IRT and newer NYCTA staked-wood plank sided work flat cars.  There were some older flat cars from the 32 foot to 48 foot lengths.  Your looks like a 48 foot (or close) length - did you measure it.  Once it is painted M-of-W yellow with added details, lettering, decals,  it will look great.  Regards - Joe F

RJR posted:

If one googles "3rd avenue el videos", there are many videos available, including a ride the length of the line in the 50's.  There are also some from the early 1900s.

When I walked to IRT, rather than taking the 16 bus to IND, I felt the 241st station was closer.  Boarders weren't allowed off the grounds, so I never got too familiar with the streets.  I do recall the "split" street behind the campus.

Hello again RJR -

The area looked like suburban-semi-rural (compared to the upper east side Manhattan) to me back then in the 1950's -- still a lot of weed and tree filled vacant lots and undeveloped grounds and wooded areas.   But still by then it had a significant amount of late 1920's thru late 1940's residential construction (mostly private homes and small apartment buildings). I remember riding the old IRT Low-V trains on the White Plains Road EL Line  -- and in a bad winter snow storm in late 1955 I trudged thru very deep snow to get from the Mount all the freezing way along Nereid Ave to the EL station...and the train sparked, flashed, hissed and groaned all the way south  due to partially frozen spots of 3rd rails !  I stayed on all the way thru to the subway portion portal at 149th & 3rd and straight thru to the upper east side Manhattan that evening -- didn't change for the 3rd Ave EL MUDC (or Q Types) train at Gun Hill Rd  to only 149th St Terminal Station and then go back down to the subway line again at E. 149th - 3rd Ave subway station.  Because, heh,  I was sitting in the corner end seat by the vestibule partition wall in a nice well heated toasty warm old White Plains Rd Line Low-V subway car - and that was good enough. 

Here at TOP BELOW is a photo panel composition I just created  -- (I have about 150 or more of these "Then & Now" type panels I created over the past few years in numerous locations)  -- here is our old Mountie area along the EL line as seen looking north at and from E. 237th Street -- I still remember most all the streets up there had the old ancient cast iron pipe 1900 era streetlights bolted to wood utility poles like the one in the 1917 photo.  I even modeled a few on my EL layout city streets. Those lights remained until the 1960's.  I last visited the mount back in 2015 and took a lot of walk-around photos of it then.   The other scenes below I am sure you recognize somewhat -- yeah, its been  60+ years ago, since we schooled there - dinosaur ! Regards - Joe F

Below - S/W along Nereid Avenue just west of Mundy (county line) Lane -  seen is the Mount's Ball Field & Track

S/E from N/E Corner Pitman & Murdock Ave

Along my EL System - with fire alarm box location orange globe lamp

Joe, when I look at your outstanding layout, with the myriad of fine detail, I wonder how large is the layout and how long have you been working on it. 

Haven't been back to the Mount since 1952.  I finally convinced my parents that boarding school wasn't for me.  Transferred to St Peter's Prep in lower Jersey City, near the PRR Exchange Place terminal, which was then in full commuter activity, and to get there passed the Erie Terminal leads, which still had steam commuter trains.  But that's another story.....