Have a question on American Flyer trains

The Greenburgs guides on Flyer were printed multiple times and can purchased on Ebay.  There is also a 2019 Greenburgs price guide available for Flyer.

You could list the numbers of the loco and cars, along with your knowledge of condition on this forum.

@Roundhouse Bill posted:

The Greenburgs guides on Flyer were printed multiple times and can purchased on Ebay.  There is also a 2019 Greenburgs price guide available for Flyer.

The TM Guide to American Flyer S Gauge is even better. 

Bob

JEM,

There is also lots of good pictures for AF train identification here:
http://www.thegilbertgallery.o...s%20Train/index.html

Aflyer

I would be more inclined to look at completed items sold on eBay that are in a similar condition to the ones being offered to you, these are prices that are real and based on current sales.

i have no experience of the TM guide and can’t comment, but I do have a number of the Greenberg guides and the only thing I will say is that knowing of specific items listed then they are fabricating the values as far as I am concerned.

It seems that all of the responders, so far, assume that the set is going to be an S Gauge set (which it certainly could be) but it could also be a prewar O gauge set.

I second eBay completed auctions for fair prices and descriptions.  eBay is free, prices up to date and available verses buying a guide book.

Charlie

@Nation Wide Lines posted:

It seems that all of the responders, so far, assume that the set is going to be an S Gauge set (which it certainly could be) but it could also be a prewar O gauge set.

He posted his inquiry on this S scale forum, so it is a pretty good assumption.

The ONLY "price guide" worth squat is the eBay past months of "sold" items, via a "advanced search". Past issues of toy train guide books show higher prices, for the most part.

I find your question a bit confusing. Unless you plan on selling these, they are "worth" what your "heart" is willing to pay.

The TM Guide to American Flyer S Gauge is even better. 

Bob

Bob, Since you are one of the authors of the TM Guide I respect that there may be some bias involved in your opinion. 

The problem with using eBay as a price guide for a boxed set is that there might be only a few sold every year.  Boxed sets are not as common as individual pieces.  There the 1912 TM Guide is good, but it is 8 years old and values have slipped for most Flyer stuff.  Still the most current.

@Roundhouse Bill posted:

The problem with using eBay as a price guide for a boxed set is that there might be only a few sold every year.  Boxed sets are not as common as individual pieces.  There the 1912 TM Guide is good, but it is 8 years old and values have slipped for most Flyer stuff.  Still the most current.

The OP said that his neighbour had the trains in a box in his attic. It may be an original box or just any old box with it all stuffed inside. Even so, if the individual items have original boxes you can still use eBay to get a pretty good approximation of where all of it will sit price wise. Even the outer set boxes don’t seem to hit big $’s from what I have seen.

Price guides are exactly that, a guide, not a benchmark to give accurate values, there are too many variables to take into consideration. I find them more useful to know what was produced and when.

To me I suspect the compilers of guides, not just for trains, use them to help drive up artificially the prices of items to let people believe they have things of high value and when they try to sell them, they then get disappointed when they are told they are worth a lot less. I suspect over the next 2-5 years the glut of trains will drive prices down further, it will be interesting to see by how much. 

To me I suspect the compilers of guides, not just for trains, use them to help drive up artificially the prices of items to let people believe they have things of high value and when they try to sell them, they then get disappointed when they are told they are worth a lot less.

I don't think the people that do these guides are trying to disappoint people.  I think people do that all by themselves.  Everybody thinks their item should be at the top of the guide's range or excellent.  So if the price range for a 336 with a large motor is $248 for Good and $442 for excellent they feel that there engine is closer to $442 in value.  When someone is willing to pay $300 they are disappointed.

JEM: Please give us an update when you are finally able to see what your neighbor actually has.

@Roundhouse Bill posted:

The TM Guide to American Flyer S Gauge is even better. 

Bob

Bob, Since you are one of the authors of the TM Guide I respect that there may be some bias involved in your opinion. 

You bet! But, it is the better guide. Much better. 

Bob

Hi Bob,

I confess to never having purchased one of you guides, sorry, only the Greenberg ones, so here is the challenge, what makes your guide superior to Greenberg’s version?😀

My own personal view on guides is that I am not a big fan of them, please don’t take that personally, just my view and here is why.

To start I haven’t purchased a GB guide for many a year now so I may be a bit behind on some entries that to me make the principal of how they say they compile valuations.

Over the pond here I have a number of 220V transformers 4B-EX, 8B-EX and 18B-EX. To find one over here is like finding hens teeth due to rarity, yet in the GB guide they mentioned them (or they did on a regular basis about 10 years ago when I got my last one)  and the blurb at the front of the guide states that all valuations are based on said items being offered/sold during the compilation for that year. I have never seen on eBay a 220V transformer being offered, I have never seen a 220V transformer on any of the dealers that advertise Flyer I follow, so where are all these 220V transformers that GB claims they see? I will happily purchase more 18B-EX transformers if they are often found for sale in the US.

In your guide Bob do you list these transformers and if so do you have a value on them and how is this value determined if you do?

@Ukaflyer posted:

Hi Bob,

 

<snip.>

Over the pond here I have a number of 220V transformers 4B-EX, 8B-EX and 18B-EX. To find one over here is like finding hens teeth due to rarity, yet in the GB guide they mentioned them (or they did on a regular basis about 10 years ago when I got my last one)  and the blurb at the front of the guide states that all valuations are based on said items being offered/sold during the compilation for that year. I have never seen on eBay a 220V transformer being offered, I have never seen a 220V transformer on any of the dealers that advertise Flyer I follow, so where are all these 220V transformers that GB claims they see? I will happily purchase more 18B-EX transformers if they are often found for sale in the US.

In your guide Bob do you list these transformers and if so do you have a value on them and how is this value determined if you do?

Yes, the transformers you mention are listed as variations. I did not call out prices on them because of insufficient pricing data. One has to be honest about these things. One does not buy a guide just for prices, but also for the accuracy of the information therein. I caution, however, that rarity and price do not always correlate (inversely) with each other. Desirability is also very important. 

The TM guide does not cost a lot. Suggest that you buy a copy of the 2012 edition and you will readily see the extensive listing of variations, set contents, superior accuracy, Lionel production, Gilbert paper, listing organization, etc. and, hence, why the TM guide severely trounces the 'pocket guide' competition. 

Have fun!

Bob

@Bob Bubeck posted:

Yes, the transformers you mention are listed as variations. I did not call out prices on them because of insufficient pricing data. One has to be honest about these things. One does not buy a guide just for prices, but also for the accuracy of the information therein. I caution, however, that rarity and price do not always correlate (inversely) with each other. Desirability is also very important. 

The TM guide does not cost a lot. Suggest that you buy a copy of the 2012 edition and you will readily see the extensive listing of variations, set contents, superior accuracy, Lionel production, Gilbert paper, listing organization, etc. and, hence, why the TM guide severely trounces the 'pocket guide' competition. 

Have fun!

Bob

Hi Bob,

I agree with you that rarity does not immediately translate to something being ultra expensive, as in the case of these transformers. They probably have very little value as an operational item in the US but over here they are extremely useful to have as an item to plug straight into the wall socket and away you go, no additional step down transformers to worry about.

it isn’t in my interest to make these become expensive otherwise I will just pass on them, in fact I would like to see them with a value less than the equivalent 110V item.

if anyone sees an 18B-EX 220V dual transformer then post any details of it to the forum and I will happily go and see if a deal can be made.

Do you have somewhere I can look at on the web to see the layout/format of the TM guide or can you post a couple of pages here so I can see what it looks like, if that is allowed.

I have a copy of the Doyle book which I find useful, mainly because of the photographs of items and the listing of variations etc. How does this compare to yours Bob?

@Ukaflyer posted:

Hi Bob,

 <snip>

Do you have somewhere I can look at on the web to see the layout/format of the TM guide or can you post a couple of pages here so I can see what it looks like, if that is allowed.

I have a copy of the Doyle book which I find useful, mainly because of the photographs of items and the listing of variations etc. How does this compare to yours Bob?

Regrettably, no. There are copyright restrictions. The TM American flyer Illustrated Price and Rarity Guide S Gauge 1946-2011 is available through Portlines Hobbies here in the States for 10 USD = 7.9 GBP + shipping.

Everyone here purchased Doyle's book for the pictures (which is truly its forte) when it was 'blown out' as Mr. Doyle got hung up with plagiarism issues. However, it is riddled with errors and omissions in the 5-digit and HO sections, its Gilbert paper section is painfully incomplete, and it does not cover any Lionel AF production.

The ball is in your court. 

Bob