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Have any other Forumites ever been aboard a passenger train which separated into two parts?

 

In the 1960's, I was aboard SP's San Joaquin Daylight south of Modesto when it uncoupled at speed.  The separation was between one of Espee's no-frills baggage cars that they bought in the early 60's, and the first chair car.  (I was riding further back in the train.)  Thankfully, that limited passengers being exposed to danger between the cars.  And the Engineer immediately bailed off the engine brakes and thus averted a collision between the two portions of the train.  It caused considerable delay because the steam piping was ripped from under the chair car and had to have Mechanical Department attention before we could proceed.  After carmen had removed the loose piping, we coupled up and proceeded, but without any hot water in the cars.  Fortunately it was not in cold weather, or the cars would have had to be set out in order to have steam heat.

 

Anyone else ever have a similar experience?

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Tom, I have had two incidents of a train coming apart...while running the 765!

 

One was on a Buffalo to Corning trip on Conrail back in the late 80's and the other was on a New River train on CSX, somewhere around 1991 or 92. The Conrail train was going about 25 mph and the CSX train was at about 55 mph when it happened.

 

When the air went into emergency I bailed the independent, hit the sanders, pulled the throttle wide open, dropped the reverse into the corner and rode her down to a stop, pulling HARD! That made sure that the rear end stopped before the front end did. No PC switch to deal with on a steamer, thank goodness. It was an interesting few moments.

 

No injuries on either one. Just a coupler height issue.

Several years ago, an eastbound Metrolink commuter train had a separation while running at over 70MPH down the center of I-10. The brakes on the trailing cars engaged and there were no injuries. Apparently some debris had flown into "the trench" and hit the uncoupling lever, uncoupling the second car from the third. They re-coupled the train an limped to the next station (El Monte) where the passengers were put on another train while the uncoupled train was sent for mechanical inspection (back the other way past LAUPT to the old SP Taylor Yard facility).

Originally Posted by Hot Water:

Tom,

 

Does having the large retaining pin, that holds the drawbars from the engine to tender, fall out on SP 4449 count? We were westbound on the New Orleans Worlds Fair Daylight, and after completing a service stop and SP crew change at Dell Rio, Texas, the pin fell out about 10 miles west of town. Boy,,,,,,talk about a big surprise!

Wow.... I just had a visual of the poor fireman doing the splits. Hope that wasn't too hairy a moment for you!

Originally Posted by Firewood:
Originally Posted by Hot Water:

Tom,

 

Does having the large retaining pin, that holds the drawbars from the engine to tender, fall out on SP 4449 count? We were westbound on the New Orleans Worlds Fair Daylight, and after completing a service stop and SP crew change at Dell Rio, Texas, the pin fell out about 10 miles west of town. Boy,,,,,,talk about a big surprise!

Wow.... I just had a visual of the poor fireman doing the splits. Hope that wasn't too hairy a moment for you!

Well, yes as the Fireman on duty it was sure a heck of a shock. However, SP 4449 is an oil burner with an all-weather cab, so nobody was "dropped on the right of way".

In 1968, I was aboard a High Iron Company excursion which experienced a separation while running at track speed. We were on the eastbound return leg of a trip from Elizabeth, NJ to Palmerton, PA over the Central Railroad of New Jersey powered by the NKP 759. The separation occurred due to a failure on the HICO open air car which was coupled immediately behind the tender. The train went into emergency and I stuck my head out the window (the consist was primarily CNJ open window cars which were still in daily service at the time) in time to see the 759 continuing away from the train around a curve. 

 

As I recall (it was almost fifty years ago and I was just barely 10 at the time), the delay wasn't terribly long as CNJ and HICO management had a handle on things quickly. The 759 backed down, the HICO car was set off and we continued on our way. The break occurred in four track territory so the railroad was able to route its regularly scheduled passenger trains and freights around us while everything was sorted out. Definitely one of my more interesting fan trip stories.

 

I know Mr. Rowland participates on at least on other on line forum. Too bad he's not on here as I'm sure he'd be able to fill in between my somewhat sketchy details as he perhaps may have been running the engine at the time it happened.

 

Bob 

Last edited by CNJ 3676
Originally Posted by OGR Webmaster:

Tom, I have had two incidents of a train coming apart...while running the 765!

 

One was on a Buffalo to Corning trip on Conrail back in the late 80's and the other was on a New River train on CSX, somewhere around 1991 or 92. The Conrail train was going about 25 mph and the CSX train was at about 55 mph when it happened.

 

When the air went into emergency I bailed the independent, hit the sanders, pulled the throttle wide open, dropped the reverse into the corner and rode her down to a stop, pulling HARD! That made sure that the rear end stopped before the front end did. No PC switch to deal with on a steamer, thank goodness. It was an interesting few moments.

 

No injuries on either one. Just a coupler height issue.

Fascinating experience, but not sure I really understand what you did and why you did it! Can you explain in a way that a novice can understand? Thanks.

About 40 years ago I took my 4 O Scale newly built New York City IND R-1 subway cars to the Stamford Connecticut model railroad club for a meet and open house. The cars were unpowered at the time. I met Robbie Kretsmer ( hope I spelled his name correctly).  He was one of the charter members of the Bay Ridge Model Railroad Club in Brooklyn. He was a master scratch builder and worked on most of his trains at his machine shop. He brought a superb scratch built Pennsylvania RR steam engine that looked to be almost 2 feet long. I borrowed a gondola and a caboose from someone there and set up a train  with the IND subway cars between them. That was how the prototype was delivered way back in the 30's. the train was put in service and took off. The operation control was manned by a few guys and out of the tunnel came our train. The dispatcher said if you hang around here Long enough you wiil see anything. We figured on the second time around we will take some photos. When the train came out of the tunnel the only thing we saw was the engine, tender and the gondola. Yes we had a pull apart! The line was shut down and the Subway cars were caboose were found and removed. The coupler was repaired and the train ran some more that day with no problem. Somewhere in my collection are the photos. We had a great time that day and will always have fond memories of that incident.

Originally Posted by conrad50:
Fascinating experience, but not sure I really understand what you did and why you did it! Can you explain in a way that a novice can understand? Thanks.

I would be happy to, Conrad.

 

I'll parse my comments phrase by phrase...

  • When the air went into emergency...
    When a train uncouples, the air line (called the "brake pipe") also separates. When this happens, the brakes go into "Emergency" which just means they apply as hard as they can.
  • I bailed the independent...
    I pressed a lever on the brake stand to PREVENT the brakes on the locomotive from applying. I definitely do NOT want the locomotive brakes applying. You'll see why in a moment.
  • ...hit the sanders...
    I put the sand on because my next move is to the throttle, and I'm going to open it all the way, if I can. I don't want the drivers to spin, so I put down sand to improve traction.
  • ...pulled the throttle wide open...
    When the air goes into Emergency by itself, you don't know WHY it has happened. It could just be an air hose that came apart, applying the brakes. It could also be something more serious. But no matter what the situation, I want to pull as hard as I can on the train for several reasons.

    If the train has derailed, pulling hard on the train and keeping the slack stretched will tend to keep the cars aligned with the track. They won't fold up accordion style.

    If the train has separated (come uncoupled) I want the front half of the train to roll farther than the rear half. Consider that if the front section stopped first, the rear section could plow right into it at a pretty good speed.

    A passenger train stopping with a full emergency application can be a very rough stop. Pulling hard on the train smooths the stop, helping to keep passengers from falling down.
  • ...dropped the reverse into the corner and rode her down to a stop...
    When the air goes into Emergency, you are going to stop no matter what. It's just a matter of time.

    By using all the throttle and dropping the valve gear into full forward gear, I'm making sure I can get maximum tractive effort on the train, for all the reasons I stated in the previous paragraph.
  • ...No PC switch to deal with on a steamer...
    On many older diesels, when the air goes into emergency it trips the PC switch and the engine unloads (stops developing pulling power.) I have never understood why they did that, and I don't think modern locomotives do this, but many of the older diesels did. In a situation like that, you can't pull on the train at all. You can bail the independent brake, but you're just along for the ride until she stops. There is nothing you can do to improve the situation at all.

 

It doesn't happen often, but when it does, you have to be ready to do all these things in very quick succession.

conrad50, Rich just gave you a description of what a professional Locomotive Engineer is expected to know and to do.  You can't wait until something like this happens and then figure out what to do.  There's no time for that when it actually happens.  Proper Preparation Prevents Poor Performance.

 

Rich is a professional Locomotive Engineer.  Maybe I'll have the pleasure of riding behind him on a future 765 excursion.

Thanks to everybody for the interesting replies.  

 

Rich, as info, the San Joaquin Daylight had an FP7 with 2 F7B's and -- even though reduced to Idle by action of the PC switch -- that heavy consist kept the 2 baggage cars rolling farther than the rest of the train.  As information, the SP articulated chair cars tended to be a bit weaker on the braking than typical passenger equipment, but we also had an automat car and an observation car with two trucks each.  When we went into emergency, I assumed that we had struck a vehicle at a crossing, but one of the Trainmen came through the train and announced the cause and that there might be a considerable delay, which, as I recall, was not really that bad, only about 2 hours.  It could have been worse if the dragging steam piping had fouled a switch under the leading chair car before we came to a stop.

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