Having issues running a Lionel TMCC locomotive using CAB-2.

First off, make sure the engine is set to TMCC in the Control Type on the CAB2.  After selecting the engine #, press INFO and SCROLL twice.  In that menu, you must pick something other than Legacy for TMCC engines to function.  For a plain TMCC locomotive, select TMCC, for an ERR Equipped locomotive, select R100.

Should I first try to give the engine a new engine number?

When I do the changes you suggest on the CAB2, does the locomotive need to be on the track? Powered up? In PGM mode or Run mode? The instructions/manuals I've looked at don't see to be consistent or correct in their approach.

You don't need the engine on the tracks.  If the engine has already been setup and runs on a TMCC layout, you just need to select it's TMCC ID on the CAB2 and fix the command type to be compatible with TMCC.

TMCC/Legacy is a one-way system, so it doesn't know if an engine is on the tracks or not.  It just sends out the commands and we hope the engine catches them.  Fortunately, the transmission is typically very reliable, so that isn't an issue 99.9% of the time.

thanks John. I'm sorry that I appear to be such a dolt on this - but I want to make sure I'm not going to hose something in my layout.

Would you also suggest that I assign a new engine number to the engine? I've tried that a couple of times using the instructions I read, but the horn does not sound when I hit the Set button. The front lights on the locomotive blink very fast. No sound.

Bottom line, my legacy locomotive all run ok. It's just this older (6 year old) Lionel TMCC locomotive that's giving me trouble.

Also, the one thing I will check is that TMCC is set on the control type "tab". The instructions I read said to set it to CAB1.

Lastly, if that all does not work, is there as way to reset that locomotive to the factory settings? If I need to do that, I will then start the process over.

This has been very frustrating!

Programming a locomotive isn't likely to "hose" your layout.  I don't know what instructions you're reading, but TMCC is the best choice.  As it turns out, CAB1 will work, but it emulates the old TMCC command system, the TMCC setting sends out absolute commands that will work much better, especially if the TMCC engine is Odyssey equipped.

The manual for the individual locomotives tells you how to reset it.  Since I don't know the Lionel product number, I can't look for that.

Thanks John. I downloaded the owners manual for 6-18251 from the Lionel web site. We'll see what it says.

I'll let you know if I need some remedial help! 

No dice. The only reprogramming is shown on the next to last page. I did that too. Still no dice. Smoke seems to be ok, but no sounds. The SND switch on the bottom of the locomotive is on - so that's can't be it. Also, none of the CAB-2 commands seem to work - like RPM up or down.

Bottom line is that I did all of the things above - and still it's not working properly. I'm ready to punt!

Jeffrey, maybe a dumb question (no pun intended), have you tried adjusting the volume potentiometer up and down on the bottom of the loco?

One other thing to try, cycle the sound switch back and forth a couple of times.  Both of these controls can accumulate oxidation over time and "exercising" them can sometimes get current flowing through them again.  Maybe worth a try.

The failure to control a TMCC locomotive with the Legacy command system set to anything but Legacy command type has me, that 's never been a problem in all the years I've done this.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

The failure to control a TMCC locomotive with the Legacy command system set to anything but Legacy command type has me, that 's never been a problem in all the years I've done this.

John would you please clarify?

@SteveH posted:

John would you please clarify?

I'm totally baffled by this failure.

Well if you're baffled, then that's a pickle.  As an audio engineer, I would repeat my previous suggestions about exercising the switch and volume pot.  If that doesn't do it, maybe it has a bad audio board, loose connection, short in one of the wires, or a bad speaker (blown or zinc pest).  If the exorcism doesn't work, maybe time to open it up and have a look?

Since it's stated it runs fine on a TMCC layout, most of those things don't really apply if that's true.

Maybe Jeffrey could clarify how long ago this loco was run on the other layout, the original post doesn't say how long ago, only that he recently moved.  Also, in my experience, a low voltage switch or volume pot may seem to work fine one day, then a couple days later, not so much.  I've seen this hundreds of times.

None of the audio issues explain no response to the command system.  However, I don't know what's really happening, so anything's possible.

Another thought occurred to me, which would be to try running it in Conventional mode.  If it makes sound, then there's no issue with the audio components.

Good plan, that would tell us something.

Question, after being moved and stored, did you check to make sure the R2LC board was seated or oxidized?

Maybe the " new house " has a grounding issue ?

Bob G.

Ok - all things I can check out.

To answer one of Steve's questions, in my previous house, I ran the locomotive, along with my other legacy locomotives, without issue for a few years.

Again to Steve, I'm obviously not as experienced as you folks - but perhaps you can also explain how I run the locomotive in conventional mode? Do you mean to run it on a separate piece of track that is connected via a transformer not connected to the legacy command system?

Again to Steve - low voltage switch? Not sure what you mean here. If you are speaking about an actual switch on the layout, I'm trying to get the locomotive to run on a straight piece of track.  Or are you talking about the sound switch? Please explain?

To Bob's question about a grounding issue - what does that mean? Wouldn't that affect the legacy locomotives as well? They run fine.

To Ron's comment about the R2LC board - assume that's in the locomotive itself? Is there an exploded parts diagram that would show me which board that is? How do I tell if it is oxidized?

@JEFFREY RUCKGABER 050219 posted:

Ok - all things I can check out.

To answer one of Steve's questions, in my previous house, I ran the locomotive, along with my other legacy locomotives, without issue for a few years.

Again to Steve, I'm obviously not as experienced as you folks - but perhaps you can also explain how I run the locomotive in conventional mode? Do you mean to run it on a separate piece of track that is connected via a transformer not connected to the legacy command system?

Again to Steve - low voltage switch? Not sure what you mean here. If you are speaking about an actual switch on the layout, I'm trying to get the locomotive to run on a straight piece of track.  Or are you talking about the sound switch? Please explain?

To Bob's question about a grounding issue - what does that mean? Wouldn't that affect the legacy locomotives as well? They run fine.

To Ron's comment about the R2LC board - assume that's in the locomotive itself? Is there an exploded parts diagram that would show me which board that is? How do I tell if it is oxidized?

To Run in Conventional: From page 3 of the Owner's Manual, Legacy control system powered off.

The Sound/No sound switch is a low voltage switch. The volume control is a low voltage potentiometer (pot).

Probably not a house ground issue, since Legacy locos work fine.

R2LC is a circuit board in the loco.  Where there are unsoldered metal to metal electrical contacts, they can develop a thin layer of oxidation between them causing a high resistance electrical connection. This causes issues in low voltage circuits.  The simplest way to remedy this it to unplug and reconnect these connections.  Often this will get them working again.  Sometimes this fix will be temporary, and more thorough oxide removal would be required.

Well, I ran it in conventional mode. Hooked up a track to my old transformer. Same behavior. it runs, lights are on, but no sound. I guess I need to open it up and look at the R2LC circuit board. Not sure which one it is, but I will poke around a bit to see if I can see anything.

Suggestions,  after you remove the shell, take some pictures of the connections before you do anything else.

Here is a link to the Lionel parts page for this loco showing and exploded diagram of the different parts of your locomotive:

https://www.lionelsupport.com/...872-8B6E96184253CD3F

Here is a pic of the R2LC

and the Railsounds Power Board

I'd suggest disconnecting and reconnecting both of these boards, then testing again Conventionally with the shell off as your next step.

Obviously, you'll want to reseat the RS Audio board as well.

@JEFFREY RUCKGABER 050219 posted:

Well, I ran it in conventional mode. Hooked up a track to my old transformer. Same behavior. it runs, lights are on, but no sound. I guess I need to open it up and look at the R2LC circuit board. Not sure which one it is, but I will poke around a bit to see if I can see anything.

I don't understand the "Same behavior" comment.  I thought it did NOT respond to the command system, is that not true?

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Obviously, you'll want to reseat the RS Audio board as well.

I don't understand the "Same behavior" comment.  I thought it did NOT respond to the command system, is that not true?

Good suggestion John.  Would you also suggest removing and re-seating the micro-processor chips in their sockets as well?

@SteveH posted:

Good suggestion John.  Would you also suggest removing and re-seating the micro-processor chips in their sockets as well?

Only if you have or obtain a PLCC extraction tool, then you can reseat the two PLCC chips.  However, do NOT try to do this by prying them out with a screwdriver or similar utensil, that will almost surely break the PLCC socket and then you do need a new sound board!

Same behavior was when I used the cab-2 remote. Both in conventional mode and with the cab-2, the train runs, lights work, no sound.

I don't have that tool - but I could get. Assuming you are suggesting to replace those PLCC chips? Do you know where I would get them and how much they are?

When do I start using a hammer??!!  

No one has suggested replacing the PLCC chips.  Please go back up the page and try the suggestions already offered, then let us know what you find out afterwards.

You don't replace the PLCC chips, just extract them and then press them back into the sockets.  This removes any oxidation of the contact points and allows good contact again.

ok - cool. I ordered the chip puller from Amazon. Will be here on Friday. I'll save that for last.

If that all doesn't work - can I use a hammer then??!! 

The hammer works ever time, but it has to be combined with a credit card.  The card is to buy the replacement locomotive!

you got that right brother!

The one last thing, on the exploded parts diagram, it did not show where the RS Audio board is located. Can someone let me know where that is?

Thanks!

I'm off today from work so I'm really going to dig into this!

You can't really miss it, it's the only one with the PLCC sockets.  Check the pictures in this thread.

Hey Guys,

Finally got around to looking at this. I took the cover off the locomotive to check the seating of the various daughter boards. They all seemed fine. I happened to turn over the locomotive shell and saw one of the daughter boards sitting in the shell. It had become dislodged. And guess what, it was the sound board!  I unplugged and re-plugged all of the boards, toggled the switches back and forth, reset the locomotive to factory settings. I'm glad to report I'm back in business. All is functioning as expected!  woo hoo!!! 

Thanks for all your help and advice.

I will sending a follow up post about a part I need for that locomotive. Be on the lookout for it.