Heavy Metal steam engine production continues at MTH!!

Try to get them to do a New Haven Mountain with a Vanderbilt tender.

Please.

Has MTH ever made any Vanderbilt tenders?

---PCJ

Yes.

Which steamers had them? I'm curious now, as I can't think of any offhand.

---PCJ

Anybody else notice the old Lionel TMCC IR wireless "box" on the C&O version? That loco is truly tethered.

Funny. Borrowed graphics, anyone?

Beth is there a way to find out if MTH retained the L3/L4 Mohawk tooling?

I thought Lionel holds a patent on "Whistle Steam"?

However, my brief and quick review of recent Lionel Patents I could not find a claim in their patents with the words "Whistle Steam."

@D500 posted:

Anybody else notice the old Lionel TMCC IR wireless "box" on the C&O version? That loco is truly tethered.

Funny. Borrowed graphics, anyone?

Oddly enough the one on the product page for the C&O version from 2005 has both a Lionel IR box and a MTH tether:

20-3159-1 | MTH ELECTRIC TRAINS (mthtrains.com)

Wouldn't be the first time manufactures borrowed another company's product for a catalog illustration. Lionel used 3rd Rails SP 4-4-2 in the catalog they released their SP 4-4-2 in for the first time.

@DMASSO posted:

Try to get them to do a New Haven Mountain with a Vanderbilt tender.

Please.

Yuk,  LOL

Thanks Gary.

@Lou1985 posted:

Oddly enough the one on the product page for the C&O version from 2005 has both a Lionel IR box and a MTH tether:

20-3159-1 | MTH ELECTRIC TRAINS (mthtrains.com)

Wouldn't be the first time manufactures borrowed another company's product for a catalog illustration. Lionel used 3rd Rails SP 4-4-2 in the catalog they released their SP 4-4-2 in for the first time.

This could probably turn into a whole sub-hobby "thing" if we kept it up. I noticed Lionel using Williams Samhongsa brass Pacifics years ago, in the catalogue, and some time later, the brass Williams Masterpiece Series J3a Hudson for their then-upcoming die-cast J3a.

Lionel published a list of the tooling that they bought from MTH, but IDK where it is offhand.  If Lionel didnt buy it, then MTH still has the tooling....

@AlanRail posted:

I thought Lionel holds a patent on "Whistle Steam"?

However, my brief and quick review of recent Lionel Patents I could not find a claim in their patents with the words "Whistle Steam."

I wouldnt think you can get away with putting a patten on that

@Beth Marshall-The Public Delivery Track posted:

Lionel published a list of the tooling that they bought from MTH, but IDK where it is offhand.  If Lionel didnt buy it, then MTH still has the tooling....

That's news to me, and the question keeps getting ask by others so if so it's not well known if it was ever published.

Lionel didn't publish any list to my knowledge. If they did, I would love to see it. I don't think anyone besides them will know what they got until it shows up in a catalog.

Railride - Regarding a Vanderbilt tender, I believe “MTH’s Premier Canadian National U1f (4-8-2 #6069) O Scale Locomotive” has that type of tender.  If you google what’s in parenthesis you can watch a 3 minute video that MTH produced several years ago to promote that engine and see for yourself.

@AlanRail posted:

I thought Lionel holds a patent on "Whistle Steam"?

However, my brief and quick review of recent Lionel Patents I could not find a claim in their patents with the words "Whistle Steam."

Nope, or at least MTH has licensed it.  I have a 2017 MTH Premier Big Boy with whistle steam.

@Beth Marshall-The Public Delivery Track posted:

MTH is offering the PRR  J-1  2-10-4, and the C&O T-1 2-10-4, each in 2 road numbers.  The PRR version will also have whistle steam.

Here's our links...

https://www.publicdeliverytrac...-with-whistle-steam/

These will be built to order, as is most everything with Atlas and MTH anymore.

What's the total price?  All I see is $100 for the pre-order.

Please scroll down after u click on the link.  it has the price there...  I try not to get into pricing on forum posts.

OK, I see it, the fonts went a little nutty down there and part of the description (with the price) is tiny fonts! Same thing on Firefox or Chrome.

See sample below.

Strange.  But thx for letting me know.   Everything comes up large on my laptop using Firefox.

New Haven Railroad R-1-b class 4-8-2 Mountain type steam locomotive # 3325, with a V-1-a class Vanderbilt tender. 1940.

Beth - Don’t see the minimum curve listed, can you provide please? Thanks.

You are correct John. I am using Firefox and it only shows the $100.00 Deposit.

O-72 min curves....

PS...i just made a change to the description type size on the J-1.  See if it comes up any better.  Im using a macbook and firefox, and it comes up fine....

beth

Now it's all tiny print!   However, the two sizes of print are gone.

Try it now....

Still tiny, but don't worry about it.  It's not hard to expand it for easy reading.  Just one more oddity of the Internet.

came in OKAY on mine computer using Firefox although it is two different size fonts but very readable!

Also checked with the Copyright Office in a search for the words "Whistle Steam" to find if Lionel copyrighted the words. 

Whistle Steam does not appear in the CO searches I tried.

No registered copyright for Whistle Steam?

@AlanRail posted:

No registered copyright for Whistle Steam?

How about whistle smoke?  Maybe a patent?

@Dave Koehler posted:

I wouldnt think you can get away with putting a patten on that

You could not patent the concept of whistle steam. However, the arrangement of the items to impart whistle steam to a hobby locomotive could hypothetically patented. However, such a patent would be a "method" patent. This would encompass things such as how big the exhaust hole is, how long is the tubing to deliver the smoke, where the drive fan is, where the electronics are. Method patents are the weakest. If someone accomplishes the same task but with a different method, for instance different length of tubing then that would be a work around of a method patent and would not infringe. However, it has to be shown that the different length in tubing is important to the function and not just to get by a patent. If MTH came up with a different method, then that would not infringe on Lionel.

Heavy metal steam engine! Is MTH making an Iron Maiden Big Boy?

@Csxcellent posted:

Heavy metal steam engine! Is MTH making an Iron Maiden Big Boy?

With "Eddie" on the tender!

-Greg

How are electronic boards installed / serviced with a diecast Vandy tender?

Front or back side removable ends?

Reconfigured to a longer thinner footprint to fit into a long narrow opening?

@WBC posted:

You could not patent the concept of whistle steam. However, the arrangement of the items to impart whistle steam to a hobby locomotive could hypothetically patented.

@WBC is right on the money.  An old-time word that applies here is "apparatus".

The apparatus for generating whistle steam can be patented, but may not have been.  A major requirement is that the design and operation of this proposed apparatus must not be obvious to someone skilled in the trade beforehand.

Is the means for generating whistle steam obvious (and therefore not novel)?  Or is it a true innovation?

Mike

@Tom Tee posted:

How are electronic boards installed / serviced with a diecast Vandy tender?

Front or back side removable ends?

Reconfigured to a longer thinner footprint to fit into a long narrow opening?

For the 3rd Rail models I've worked on, the skinny "chassis" on the bottom is removed and the board are typically mounted on that.  The opening is just wide enough for the 1.25" width boards to fit through.  There are some models where you have to stuff them in one end, not remembering which maker right now.  I believe Lionel has at least one that the front end comes off to access the boards, and there's a magnetic door on top to access the battery.

Beth,

   I was excited to see new steam right up to the moment I didn't see 2-rail offerings. 

    I assume they're not offering 2-rail because they don't expect to get enough orders.   I sent them an email asking them about future 2-rail offerings a while ago but got no response.   Have you asked them to build any 2 real versions?  Is there any hope they will make 2-rail steam in the future? 

I already bought the PRR 2-rail version from you in PS3 but would like the C&O 2-rail version in PS3 also.

Rich

I have asked MTH about doing some more 2 rail many times.   Its possible in the future, but no guarantees.   Yes, the sales numbers for 2 rail are low...and at this point not worth the expense of making 2 rail steam engines.

Even production #'s on 3 rail engines is lower than u think.

beth

@Beth Marshall-The Public Delivery Track posted:

I have asked MTH about doing some more 2 rail many times.   Its possible in the future, but no guarantees.   Yes, the sales numbers for 2 rail are low...and at this point not worth the expense of making 2 rail steam engines.

Even production #'s on 3 rail engines is lower than u think.

beth

Perhaps - perhaps the #s on any MTH steam is low because they’ve done the same roads over and over -  “ad nauseam”.  For years I tried to get MTH to do a “Mikadopalooza” - an offering of a plain black or black n silver engine and any road name and number added for a reservation. Just an exercise of adding some script on the model and doing some bookkeeping.  CRICKETS !!!

I could always get an unlettered Mikado done.....the problem is ..I still need to meet a 40 piece minimum.  at $1000 each my cost, thats still a good chunk of change.  I figure maybe I could sell a dozen, and id be 28K in the hole for the deal.  Not a good prospect.

As for MTH marketing it themselves....its not as easy as u think.  Its a change in the production line, possibly a change in masking, another sku, different box labels.....just another thing to try to keep track of....and not worth the effort just to sell another dozen engine or so.   Conventional wisdom, not that its correct...has been that "no one wants to do painting or lettering anymore"  I know it isnt true, but thats what a lot of ppl think these days.

And then there's the nit picking...especially about steam engines.  Its impossible to manufacture anything without getting all the "this isnt prototypically accurate" comments.  Steam engines, so it seems,  were especially distinctive by railroad....but u just cant economically change the tooling for every different RR distinction...........

Its a wonder. IMHO, that some of the manufacturers havent just walked away and said  "I've had enough of this.  Build your own steam engine"

The question shouldnt be "why cant u make the engine I want", but "what can I do to help make this possible."  The short answer, unfortunately, is time, effort, and money.  Especially money.

@Beth Marshall-The Public Delivery Track posted:

The question shouldnt be "why cant u make the engine I want", but "what can I do to help make this possible."  The short answer, unfortunately, is time, effort, and money.  Especially money.

Beth,

Very well said.

Keep up the good work.

Mike

I'm thrilled MTH is moving forward in some capacity with their Premier Steam Engines. I have two Lionel 2-10-4 steamers so I probably won't get one of these, but I do want some other MTH models like their 2-8-0 PRR and 4-6-0 Reading Camelback.