Heavyweight passenger cars

That's a very good post Ed.

Yeah.  More, please, and consider publishing those photos.  You know where . . .

Closet Pennsy Freak.

Next up are two photos of my one and only Joe Fischer custom built car - a Pullman plan 4036 8 section 5 double bedroom heavyweight sleeper.  This is one of several floor plan re-builts heavyweights  sometimes referred to as "Betterment" cars.    The first photo is of the car as it looked when purchased it from Mike Hill at a March Chicago O scale show several years ago.  Note the model is of a floor plan where Pullman removed the vestibule at one end of the car in order to add double bedrooms.  As built by Joe it was a great looking model - but painted in a green/gray scheme that predates my railroads time frame.  Joe's as built All Nation 6 wheel trucks were later replaced with better detailed PSC ones.      Recently I contracted with Dan Pantera (Calumet Shops)  to add a few details (like diaphragm damping rods and people) and repaint/rename the car for  service on my circa 1952 PRR railroad. Dan was a little hesitant to repaint a Joe Fischer car in excellent condition, but being more of an SPF than a collector, I persuaded him to take on the job.   

Next in the series is a nicely detailed Walthers plan 3521 10 section observation lounge I painted for my late friend Ray Jury.  It holds up nicely when viewed at 2-3' - but if you look closely at the photo where it is coupled to a PSC brass heavyweight you can see that the belt rail, widow sashes, and rivets are not as well detailed.  I still like the car.  

All are beautiful.  Thank you.  I rode from Benson Arizona to New Orleans in Clover Acres, behind first a Mountain, then a Cab Forward from Lordsburg to El Paso, and finally PAs to New Orleans.  Wish I could do that again!

Here are a few shots of the PSC cars I detailed and painted for my string of heavyweights.  Once I worked out the minor shorts due to trucks hitting underbody details they've been reliable performers. I did these cars about 20 years ago - before Sunset 3rd Rail came out with their very nice brass ones, and still later the GGD plastic ones.  As I've said in other posts - in today's O scale market we have a tremendous range of choice.  For those new to O scale attending a major show like the Chicago March show will be real eye opener - and the prices are down.

plan 3410 12 section 1 drawing room  plan 3523c 6 section 3 compartmentplan 3979a 8 section 1 DR 2 compartmentplan 3958 14 sectionplan 3585a 10 section 2 DR 1 comp

Ed,

My attempts (multiple) to order the catalog from Pullman Scale in TN were halfway successful.  On several occasions I sent the $5 for the catalog. I never received the catalog but the clown kept my $5.

At 11 AM today I sent the last 16 Golden Gate correct PRR P70 steps to someone. GGD had hundreds of the correct steps made to replace the incorrect ones on the P70 cars and I sold them over the course of several years. I may still have two steps left so you COULD retrofit one side of your AS P70 with correct steps if you want.

Bob

Thanks for the offer Bob.   When Frank Miller kit bashed a NJCB brass P54 into a BM62 for me that freed up a set of steps that some day may make it under the ASC P70.  Please post a photo of your Pullman Scale Manufacturing Co B&O baggage car - that is truly a rare model. 

I hope others will build on this thread to share info on O scale heavyweight passenger equipment.  Everything from Scale Craft to GGD is fair game.   Three rail scale guys are most welcome to chime in with posts and pictures but let's save discussion of "Madison cars" for the traditional 3 rail forum . 

Neat thread!  I would love to join in.

bob2 posted:

Neat thread!  I would love to join in.

You mean you haven't already?

ACL  Washington Club,    or PRR  Bankers Club?

From Before

Excellent, informative post/thread with nice photographs. You succeeded in adding to my list of things to look for outside of the more commercial fare. Thanks!

What I meant was, if I could post photos, I would be contributing.  All I am doing now is saying "nice".

Hi Bob

Could you indulge me and tell me why you can't post photos?

I vaguely remember something about Photobucket.

Cheers

 Beautiful models, everyone. For those of us used to the shorter and smaller fare, they look so massive and imposing. Thanks for all these posts.

Joe Fischer Burlington #1500 series baggage 

Oriental Limited #1900 class RPO/Baggage 

The Advance Flyer 

ATSF 30' RPO Scout Scheme or just plain two tone gray  

https://youtu.be/AMqUXoBBpIc

Precision Scale Lake series 10-1-2, behind it PSC 14 section Tourist 

Pecos River Brass ATSF 6 window RPO, 70' Fishbelly baggage 

PSC Harriman full RPO 60-P-5

PSC Harriman D-73 modernized diner 

PSC 6-3 Betterment Era late 50's 

PSC modified solarium for use as Burlington House 

I agree with Bob the 2nd, I just love heavyweight cars and want to join in...

Here is a little from my side of the tracks.....

Some of these photos suck but grabbed off the iPad.  

If you folks have any desire to a fabulous upgrade to any heavyweight I suggest the ultimate trucks. 

Wasatch Model Company 

Great post Ed!

Great thread Ed. Your photos of the ASCC models are inspiring for the D78r, P70, and Pullman 3-2 observation kits I have to build.

Unfortunately, all my heavyweights are at the club, No photos to post.

John - PSMC listed in Catalog 1 kit 3305, a model of John Ringling's private business  car.  The window arrangement on the sides is very different from ATSF's Chico.  PSMC also listed interior kits for the car.  If you want to build a business car one route to consider would be to use Joe Fischer's approach to fabricating heavyweight car sides.  In a two part series in 1949 Model Railroader Joe describes in detail how to scratch builds car sides from laminates of Strathmore board. 

Another alternative would be to consider Overland Models brass Ferdinand Magellan (the President's car) as a starting point.  A few years ago I purchased one on eBay from Bill Davis at a huge discount off MSRP.  Apparently OMI had a excess inventory of the model in both 2 and 3 rail versions. The one below is detailed for the Truman era.  A Regan era POTUS car was also offered.

I have two ASCC RPO (friend's interest in RPO cars was infectious) kits, unbuilt....one a lightweight #1006, and an M70 clerestory #1704.    Other RPO (some lightweight) and a few coach combine kits include:  LaBelle, Hawk, Rail Chief, Walhers (several different RPO's), All-Nation,  CSC, Clark Benson ATSF RPO, BC, Kasiner, JC, an aluminum lt. wt. in a slim box with no ID, but not, I think, any of these others, Chester, Robico (1800's), and a Sycamore Hollow "gay 90's" coach.  All unbuilt kits, mostly RPO's.   So somebody used to make O scale kits.

Keystoned Ed posted:

John - PSMC listed in Catalog 1 kit 3305, a model of John Ringling's private business  car.  The window arrangement on the sides is very different from ATSF's Chico.  PSMC also listed interior kits for the car.  If you want to build a business car one route to consider would be to use Joe Fischer's approach to fabricating heavyweight car sides.  In a two part series in 1947 Model Railroader Joe describes in detail how to scratch builds car sides from laminates of Strathmore board. 

Another alternative would be to consider Overland Models brass Ferdinand Magellan (the President's car) as a starting point.  A few years ago I purchased one on eBay from Bill Davis at a huge discount off MSRP.  Apparently OMI had a excess inventory of the model in both 2 and 3 rail versions. The one below is detailed for the Truman era.  A Regan era POTUS car was also offered.

 

Do you think you could post that article for us? I know that I don't have 99% of the vintage magazines, probably not alone there.

El Classico posted:

In a two part series in 1947 Model Railroader Joe describes in detail how to scratch builds car sides from laminates of Strathmore board. 

 

Do you think you could post that article for us? I know that I don't have 99% of the vintage magazines, probably not alone there.

Technically, he can't post them here due to copyright, and Ed's also going to find that's the wrong year.

Article is in Sept and Oct 1949 issues.  I could send you scans....

Thanks Martin, I tried to pull the Joe Fischer MR article year from memory - should have checked first.  I've corrected the earlier post.

Keystoned Ed posted:

Thanks Martin, I tried to pull the Joe Fischer MR article year from memory - should have checked first.  I've corrected the earlier post.

I only remember since that year's issues were a cornucopia full of stuff for O scale modelers; just reading through the advertisements and seeing some of the models and names that were being announced is an educational experience.

mwb posted:

El Classico posted:

In a two part series in 1947 Model Railroader Joe describes in detail how to scratch builds car sides from laminates of Strathmore board. 

 

Do you think you could post that article for us? I know that I don't have 99% of the vintage magazines, probably not alone there.

Technically, he can't post them here due to copyright, and Ed's also going to find that's the wrong year.

Article is in Sept and Oct 1949 issues.  I could send you scans....

Please do

Very nice thread here!

Hey Martin, any chance I could get a copy of those articles as well?

Slugger posted:

Very nice thread here!

Hey Martin, any chance I could get a copy of those articles as well?

If you had your e-mail address in your profile, the chances would be pretty good.

Right now they're thinner than a bowl of homeopathic soup made form the shadow of a pigeon that died from starvation,

mwb posted:

Slugger posted:

Very nice thread here!

Hey Martin, any chance I could get a copy of those articles as well?

If you had your e-mail address in your profile, the chances would be pretty good.

Right now they're thinner than a bowl of homeopathic soup made form the shadow of a pigeon that died from starvation,

My bad, thought it was visible. Corrected now!

Slugger posted:

mwb posted:

Slugger posted:

Very nice thread here!

Hey Martin, any chance I could get a copy of those articles as well?

If you had your e-mail address in your profile, the chances would be pretty good.

Right now they're thinner than a bowl of homeopathic soup made form the shadow of a pigeon that died from starvation,

My bad, thought it was visible. Corrected now!

You've got mail,

bob2 posted:

What I meant was, if I could post photos, I would be contributing.  All I am doing now is saying "nice".

Bob, if you have photos on your computer, you should be able to post them, no photo hosting website needed.

All the photos I've posted were either on my pc or came from those I saved to a thumb drive.

The OGR forum has the "Add Attachments" button that allows this to happen.

Does anyone the status of Scale City Designs offering the American Standard kits? 

If I may add, these are my efforts upgrading a 3rd Rail brass 36 seat diner. Full detail upgrade including interior clerestory roof, new paint and lights. 

PSC also imported some fabulous troop cars...

BEAUTY 

My favorite is this Oriental Limited RPO! 

Mine too! If Jim Seacrest we’re still around he would be going bonkers for your car! 

@SANTIAGOP23 posted:

My favorite is this Oriental Limited RPO! 

Santiago, your vid: PSC CB&Q S-4A Hudson is THE BEST video in total I've ever seen that combines love of trains, both model and real, with a fabulous sound track and super-pro editing, etc. Just astonishingly good - WOW!! 

60' heavyweight baggage car from an American Standard kit.  Assembled and detailed by T. Nelms.

 K-Line New Orleans which resembles an 8-1-2.  Interior and overhead lighting

K-Line 17 1/2 inch Night Route, sister car to New Orleans.

K-Line 17 1/2 inch heavyweight repainted to Santa Fe Jonathan.

K-Line 17 1/2 inch observation car repainted to Chief Red Cloud

K-Line 17 1/2 inch dining car with window treatment.

John

This is a Walthers 4 compartment/lounge/observation I rebuilt from a started kit someone gave me several years ago. It was in rough condition. This type or Pullman Plan was not all that common. About 25 or so cars were built by Pullman to Plan 3960, Lot 4889 in 1925. Nearly all had Revolution Era place or building names. Most cars were assigned to the New Haven and the Pennsylvania railroads for high-traffic Boston - Washington DC service. 

The model was finished as PRR's Federal Hall in its 1940's appearance.  PRR converted it to a coach in 1948, and it was one of the last open platform observations in service on the PRR by that time. It has ice-activated AC, popular with PRR and on the prototype car. Nearly all the original parts were retained in the rebuild. Interior detail with figures was added, along with LEED lighting on the car ceiling. Contacts in the roof and car body complete the electrical circuit when the roof is on so no wires and plugs are needed. The original Walthers trucks were rebuilt and tuned. 

Tuning assures all axles are parallel and in tram (square to the track). Also that the center plate (bolster) is level to the rails. That all helps to make a truck easier rolling. Sometimes the stamped steel brackets that hold the truck side frames to the bolster are not in alignment. That can cause a truck to be out of tram or the bolster top not level. Usually I can find another bracket in my truck parts stash that will be better or I make a matched pair of new brackets with brass bar stock.

    S. Islander

Ed might be the best passenger car builder I have seen.  I would rather have one of his castoffs than I would a Fisher".

Since this thread started, I have mastered the art of posting photos.  I can now share my Walthers cars - they are above average, but cannot hold a candle to Ed's.

Standby:

Start with this - we believe it is Fisher.  Nice car; cardstock sides.

My favorite Walthers cars are the 9122/23 series.  These are coaches, and they come with windows paired or not, and clerestory or turtle roofs.  For my purposes, they approximate PRR Cars I used to see in the 1960s on the Main Line, and seem to come almost close enough to the SP Harriman cars to please me.  I do have PSC Harriman cars, and if I were going to be picky, I would say that PSC got it right.  But they sure sound tinny rolling around the test loop.

Anyway, here are a couple Walthers coaches.

I've got to disagree with Bob2 on one count - the real master passenger car builders on this forum include Santiago, and SIRT.  I'm more about building a model railroad with nice looking rolling stock running on it than super detailing individual cars.  Being in my 70's it's comes down to time management  - where does one get the most enjoyment for the invested time.  We each individually get to make that call and in this hobby fortunately there are a lot of options.   I hope this thread and others like it encourage folks to learn more about prototype passenger cars and the unbelievable diversity models that have been offered over the last 70 years in O scale - and a big thanks to Scott Mann for continuing to bring in passenger cars with custom quality paint jobs at value price points.    

Well, I am going to do battle with Ed - then I will post a few more photos.

Ed and I are in the same branch of this hobby.  Guys like Erik and Santiago are in a different paradigm - both are artists with camera and airbrush; both do great work, and neither has the slightest interest in making a Walthers passenger car look halfway decent.

Those of us who share O Gauge are as varied as a hobby gets.  Some of us collect Kohs models, some go for Lionel, some collect what are known as "doorstops" - you get the idea.  I spend time admiring Erik's and Santiago's spectacular photos, and I could afford to collect PSC cars if I wanted.  Indeed, I wanted, when the original cars hit the market; I have a string of nine Harrimans and a Pullman Observation, along with a pair of Sunset Pullmans.  They are all great models.

But Ed prefers to take a dirtbag Walthers kit and turn it into a thing of beauty, easily rivaling the Fisher models.  I do the same, but I stop about halfway, and Ed goes the full measure.  That's why I put Ed in the top tier.

I shall leave it there - I also admire the 3-railers who have gone the extra mile, creating scale layouts that rival the best of the 2-rail layouts with the exception of the track - but again, different facet of the hobby - almost as different as, say, dollhouses or model airplanes.

End of rebuttal.  Next, how about some history?

These are rather interesting cars from the 1930s.  I want to say they are J-C, but they might be scratchbuilt, out of card stock.  They did not match my collection, so I sold them, and made a friend in the deal.  They are still floating around in the midwest somewhere - my friend passed on, and some of his collection made it back to me.

Herewith:

My idea of superdetailing a car is to take a Golden Gate Pullman and putting Kadee couplers on it.

@Fred Lundgren posted:

My idea of superdetailing a car is to take a Golden Gate Pullman and putting Kadee couplers on it.

Fred, you are far too obsessive compulsive!  My idea of super detailing is taking a PSC heavyweight (NO interior)! I can't see it anyhow  and putting a Protocraft coupler on it. I know, I know! Few are willing to go to those extreme, greuling measures! LOL

Simon

My idea with a PSC passenger car is to pull the trucks off, re-insulate the offending parts, and re-install.  One of my coaches still has Lobaugh trucks installed while the originals await fixing.

The OMI Ferdinand Magellan car is sweet.  I have the Truman version.  Since I no longer have a layout, its in my display case adjacent to my letter from Harry S.

What? Dead again?  You'd think this was MTJ!

I think I have an embossed copper Exacta combine somewhere:

Nice car. I like the composition of your photos, too...

Mark in Oregon

Here is a B&O dining car I built, to match B&O a specific prototype. Although custom built for a display, this model is  perfectly capable of operation on an O scale model railroad. Basically, it is a Walthers car, using a 55 YO hunk of Walthers wood roof as well as Walthers cast ends, ventilators and dining car chairs that I 'modernized' for it. Below is a B&O diagram for that specific car, the only one of its class. I made the car sides from roofers' aluminum flashing, with impressed rivet and belt seam details. The car has details for a dual brake system, per prototype. The trucks are Golden Gate Depot from a Pullman I bought and changed the trucks to a 242 type its prototype had.  Because this model was intended as a display item for a B&O dining car china collection, it has a fully detailed interior, including the ceiling.       S. Islander

The opposite end of my passenger car spectrum is best seen in a 'before and after' setting.  I tend to be a champion of sorts for lost causes in this respect.  The subject is a pre-War Walthers observation car I found as a 'junker,' at one of the O Scale Midwest March Meets for $10.  It had stamped, wooden block ventilators, parts of a built-up-brass rear platform railing and one truck. The old NY Central decals on it were elegantly done in gold with thin, black outlining - something Walthers never made again.  The model was of a high-end Pullman accommodation: 3 compartment / 2 drawing room / lounge/observation.

After is how it looks, becoming a model of the private car "Virginia City" when owned by Lucius Beebe and Charles Clegg.  They may not be so well known now as they were in the 1950's from their many railroad photo album and narrow gauge books.  The prototype photo of Virginia City was taken at SP Yard in Sparks, NV, where it was stored between trips. Here it shows some age, after Beebe's and Clegg's deaths. It was later moved to the San Francisco Bay area, where it was sold, and updated to Amtrak standards and painted in SP's former two-tone gray livery. For a while, was available for charter. S. Islander.

 BEFORE

 AFTER 

PROTOTYPE  

Yep.. Look at those beautifully contoured ends on the roof.

Another thing I am just now noticing - Ed's B & O colors are more pleasing than most.  Do I detect some slight blue hue in the grey?

Ed is an inspiration.  These Walthers kits have serious value.  I personally do not care for the prewar rivets on the sides, but Ed makes them look great!

Let me post a few PSC - these are, with the exception of dust and tarnish, right out of the box.  All have been run on my test loop in trains behind my famous MM-2 fleet of back-up Malleys.

Top is a later production (good roof end contours, better trucks) Pullman.  These are really gorgeous models for their era (1980s).  Next is a Harriman diner, and the bottom, obviously, is a Harriman RPO.  The Harriman cars have correct roof contours, something that has not yet been duplicated in O Scale.

I said it before - I actually prefer my Walthers cars - not nearly as accurate, but on the other hand, I invested more labor than screwing on couplers.  I may never paint these things - they sort of lose their brassness with a really good paint job.

Just me - sort of opinion.

And a decal note - I had some really nice passenger car decals done by Jim Wilhite - gold, with thin black outline.  The masters exist with the LaBelle remnants, and I believe the new proprietor can do decals from Jim's software and Alps printer.

If he can, any of my masters can be used for free.  I have on file Southern Pacific, The Overland Limited, PRR, PRSL, Long Island, Norfolk & Western, Sud Pacifico de Mexico, California & Oregon, EPSW, and maybe others, along with a sheet I made for Stevenson's SP locomotive kits.  And more . . . some freight car stuff and logos for Jim Seacrest's DW & P Consolidation fleet.

Just to keep this going for one more day - here are a couple more Walthers:

@bob2 posted:

Just to keep this going for one more day - here are a couple more Walthers:

I really like this one the best.

How about some baggage?  This unique, stream-styled B&O baggage car was the only member of its class, B-8aa number 627. it was intended for use with the late 1940's National and Capitol Limiteds. B&O found many other uses for it as well.  

This is the interior of a Class B-8, fresh from the ACF Shops at St. Charles MO in the mid-1920's. Those wooden straps on the floor kept baggage and other packages off the floor.  Rain and wet items could get in during station stops, also snow melting off those items would puddle on the floor of the steam heated baggage cars. Steam heat radiators are along the walls, behind what looks like  rugs hanging there.

.

This is the interior of the model I built of B&O 627. Golden tan walls and ceiling, but I failed to paint the floor Tuscan red, per prototype! The side wall radiators were modeled with pieces of worn-out handkerchief glued to a frame.   Someday, maybe I'll get back to that floor . . . . . . .   

The finished model was built with Walthers ends, ventilators, trucks and underbody parts. The sides were scratch made with aluminum flashing, with accurate  rivet and weld repair seams embossed on them. It helped to have left and right side photos of  the prototype for that!  The eight side doors can be opened, sliding into pockets in the car walls like the prototype. It's one of those things you do just once . . . .

S. Islander

My understanding is you can order the former American Standard Car Company kits from Scale City Designs.  http://scalecitydesigns.com/am...tandard-heavyweight/

I don't care for plastic or urethane, but this is great news for the hobby.  Also, for some Pullmans and coaches, the 3rd Rail plastic cars are as good as they get - I have one of their plastic Pullmans, and for detail and fidelity, it is better than the very high end brass.

And Ed - that is gorgeous.  Tell us about colors and decals!

@bob2 posted:

I don't care for plastic or urethane, but this is great news for the hobby.  Also, for some Pullmans and coaches, the 3rd Rail plastic cars are as good as they get - I have one of their plastic Pullmans, and for detail and fidelity, it is better than the very high end brass.

And Ed - that is gorgeous.  Tell us about colors and decals!

I’m going to have to push back on that, Bob. The plastic heavyweights by GGD don’t come close to high end brass. I owned a couple from the last run, and this was apparent side to side.

B&O Baggage 627 was painted inside with a mix of artist's acrylic colors to get to 'golden tan,' a brownish deep yellow.  The exterior was done in Scale Coat I 'B&O Royal Blue.'  I added a few drops of SC I Locomotive black to it. That helps darken the hue a bit, as I think SC B&O Blue is a bit too bright.  The gray is Scale Coat I D&H gray, to which a few drops of Pullman Green are added.  B&O gray had a slightly greenish hue, not easy to catch in model paints but this helps give it a deeper hue as well.

The decals are Champion.  Micro Scale's O scale B&O set is more accurate but I was unable to get them when building this car. The difference is basically in how the letters  "E" and "T" are shaped. The B&O design (railroads had their draftsmen design lettering and numbers, so there really was no standard 'font' as such at the time).  The B&O "E" has a droopy middle finger, the "T" is fully arched underneath.   B&O lettering and numbers are available at the B&O RR HS website.  Striping was done with Champ decals as well.  The black is Floquil, as I still had a sizable stash of it then. The underbody has brake piping, but no fully detailed brake rigging (yet).  I do super-detailing  of past models to avoid  building too many new ones! 

A light coat of Testors Gloss goes over the decals first, to blend them evenly into the paint. A light spray of Dull Coat follows day or two later, just enough to somewhat kill the high shine, yet not completely dull the finish.

Here are two American Standard heavy-weight cars I built. The RPO car was a rebuild of a car sent to me in pieces. The Pullman "Amsterdam" is from a kit I bought. Pullman assigned it to the B&O in the late 1940's into the 50's, wearing original Pullman Green.  It was an early kit, with a full wood roof (no pre-shaped ends, which came later) and real glass for the window glazing.

. 

This Golden Gate Depot car bought new. It needed work to get the striping over the doors to line up with whose on the body and hang at a better depth. Also, to put window shades in, to get rid of  it's wide-eyed 'bombed out' appearance.  I also changed the trucks to Lobaugh, adding outside brackets for the side bearings to them in order to model Pullman type 242 trucks the prototype St. Angele had. The original Golden Gate trucks went under the B&O dining car I mentioned earlier i this thread. St. Angele here, wears its factory paint.

(Sigh....) another Walthers car here: the 'executive observation' which actually models a Canadian Pacific prototype. It was first built it when I was 15. It was rebuilt in the 1980's to become a B&O 'division level' 930 series office car. These were often older, wood body steel framed cars that had been updated with steel side sheathing and AC for use by division officials. B&O 935 wears side sill truss rods, betraying its up-dated appearance. 

It carries marks showing was originally a Baltimore & New York car, in the upper right end of the letter board.  This is how B&O designated cars that came in through mergers. The model has a detailed underbody, interior detail with some figures and lighting. It rides on Grace Line sprung trucks from the 1950's.

The rear makers and track inspection lights are battery powered, with a switch for them hidden in the water tank under the car.  The batteries in turn, are hidden under the beds in each stateroom.  When displayed on a table top with the roof off but the markers and track inspection lights lit, it creates a mystery for observant on lookers!             S. Islander

It depends on how we define it.  As good as or better than are highly subjective.  In my book an accurate car model that is fully decorated and ready to run has a leg up on a better detailed undecorated car missing trucks and couplers that is somewhat better detailed.  Throw in that the RTR passenger car comes with an interior while the better detailed one does not tilts the balance more in favor of the RTR car.  Someone who has the skills, desire and time to complete that more detailed car might disagree.  Now there is a point that despite being unfinished the more detailed car is simply so much more accurate and highly detailed that I would say it is overall better than the RTR car.

I don't know about this, that and the other. But I've really enjoyed looking at the great photos and workmanship in this thread. Really nice stuff and a real treat.

I have only second generation PSC heavyweights.  Have not seen the latest iterations.  I will look for photos . . . Heading for the airport.

Ed- you are making me jealous!  Thanks for the paint hints.  There are times when I think the B&O colors are the absolute best.  I like your grey mix!

Don’t get me wrong, I think GGD plastic heavyweights are great! 

GGD below

@christopher N&W posted:

I don't know about this, that and the other. But I've really enjoyed looking at the great photos and workmanship in this thread. Really nice stuff and a real treat.

100% agree...

Mark in Oregon

I offer mine as a contrast - I think I could do a Bommer style restoration, but I always stop right after that shiny coat of Scale Coat.  My B&O cars (at least the heavyweights) are merely dirtbag used Walthers, with some of the creases removed from the sides.  I think the photo shows L&N, but rest assured, the other side is B&O.  I get away with that because I stand in the middle of a series of ovals, and it is impossible to see both sides . . .

I wonder if that describes my politics . . .

I should put a washer under that left side truck?

Yep, Bob!  Jack up that baggage end a bit. Mustn't have a coupler slip out!   L&N on one side and B&O on the other?   That's a page out of John Anderson's book to be sure!  His thinking was, you can't see both sides at the same time. So, he lettered freight cars for two roads -  one on each side. It gave variety without adding more cars.  On a passenger angle, you could do an L&N Pan American on one side and a B&O Metropolitan Special on the other, with both trains having similar equipment. Both trains also went to Cincinnati.  Even Pullman experimented at times and put two different liveries on the same car. It was probably done to test new paints.  But finding which car or cars were done so, would make a great model and be prototypically accurate!    

Here is a B&O non-B&O car I built. The Walthers four baggage door combine was unusual, but I found photos showing Wabash had some. Possibly NY Central too,  as Walthers had an HO model for a NYC car like that in the 'Favorite Prototype Series' of kits. I lettered it for B&O, but like the office car above, it wears the B&NY report marks and a different car number of my model railroad.  On my Baltimore & New York Railway, it was a rider coach on the mail and express train. A'la Wabash, the baggage compartment's doors are double doors that opening from the middle. A great detail, done with a bit of black decal striping. S.Islander

A modified PSC Harriman baggage car for WP and Exposition Flyer service... I fully agree with Bob, the roof contours are the only true ones. 

Out on the field! 

3rd Rail Harriman coach modified and ready for paint.... 

Same car fully painted. Non-air and also for low budget, front train Expo service. 

For all the folks that have posted their superb modeling, my hat is off to you. This is one of my favorite threads. I can't believe the start to finish photos of your work. 

Hey SANTIAGOP23,

Which PSC Baggage Car did you start with to make your Western Pacific 136?  What modifications did you make?

Kevin

Nice thread. I sure do enjoy the heavyweights

I just found this thread. So many beautiful models. May I offer one of mine.I built this years ago when I was wanting something different and unique to me.

@Kevin Cook posted:

Hey SANTIAGOP23,

Which PSC Baggage Car did you start with to make your Western Pacific 136?  What modifications did you make?

Kevin

Kevin,

my starting point was a PSC Harriman 60’ baggage car. Trainz is selling one, at a ridiculous price though, in case you’re interested. Furthermore, Protocraft has decals specifically for this and other WP cars. Those weren’t available when I did my car, so I had to put together various dry transfers sets to get it done.

Santiago,

did you change one of the Baggage Doors?  One seems smaller than the other. Or is that just the photo making one look smaller?

Kevin.

@Purplepapa posted:

May I offer one of mine.I built this years ago when I was wanting something different and unique to me.

Wow so very nice! All those rivets! Whew. Good show 👍👍

Kevin, I did not modify the doors, though they remained incorrect. I hate to quote myself but here is a link to an article I did for OSR, hopefully it can help illustrate most of what I did with the car.

https://magazine.oscaleresource.com/books/efel/#p=2

@Keystoned Ed posted:

John - PSMC listed in Catalog 1 kit 3305, a model of John Ringling's private business  car.  The window arrangement on the sides is very different from ATSF's Chico.  PSMC also listed interior kits for the car.  If you want to build a business car one route to consider would be to use Joe Fischer's approach to fabricating heavyweight car sides.  In a two part series in 1949 Model Railroader Joe describes in detail how to scratch builds car sides from laminates of Strathmore board.

Another alternative would be to consider Overland Models brass Ferdinand Magellan (the President's car) as a starting point.  A few years ago I purchased one on eBay from Bill Davis at a huge discount off MSRP.  Apparently OMI had a excess inventory of the model in both 2 and 3 rail versions. The one below is detailed for the Truman era.  A Regan era POTUS car was also offered.

Oh how LUCKY YOU ARE! At this point any 3 rail model I would buy!

To revive one of my favorite threads…I finally got my hands on a Lake series 10-1-2 for my Expo… these Dae Ha pieces are just the best.

Roger’s recently imported 2410s…

The American Standard cars were a little pricey back in the day I thought, but they are a steal today for such nice kits.  I have a whole Crescent Limited train of them to build up.

My recently completed 10-1-2… Wasatch trucks, real glass pane windows and full interior. Paint is TCP, lettering is Clover House Transfers…

Santiagop23   I have some heavyweight cars but nowhere as nice as these. I have several more kits to do and my reluctance is the difficulty of getting the correct trucks with 3 rail pickups. Is there a vendor that offers such pieces and in a variety of some sort?  Your cars look very very real, nice job.

I only do 2 rail, Bill. Not sure how to help. Sorry.

Different angle...

@Bill Park posted:

Santiagop23   I have some heavyweight cars but nowhere as nice as these. I have several more kits to do and my reluctance is the difficulty of getting the correct trucks with 3 rail pickups. Is there a vendor that offers such pieces and in a variety of some sort?  Your cars look very very real, nice job.

Try Lionel parts, Atlas O ] since they took over MTH premier line heavyweights, and Mth parts for 6 wheel trucks.

Looks great Santiago!

@Purplepapa posted:

I just found this thread. So many beautiful models. May I offer one of mine.I built this years ago when I was wanting something different and unique to me.

This is an extraordinary model (amongst all the other jewels in this thread)  Was this originally a Pomona Valley car kit? Amazingly good good build/finish regardless but also uber-rare in any case.

Wow!!!

atlpete,

I scratch built this car using the Fischer method of several laminated layers for each side.This method was described in September & October issues of Model Railroader article, IIRC

Thank you for your kind words.

Leon

@Purplepapa posted:

atlpete,

I scratch built this car using the Fischer method of several laminated layers for each side.This method was described in a 1948  Model Railroader article, IIRC

Thank you for your kind words.

Leon

Absolutely phenomenal work Leon. Scratch in its pure form, provenance, beautiful.

@Purplepapa posted:

atlpete,

I scratch built this car using the Fischer method of several laminated layers for each side.This method was described in September & October issues of Model Railroader article, IIRC

Thank you for your kind words.

Leon

Exceptional craftsmanship - articles were in the 1949 September & October issues of Model Railroader - those I kept for reference.

@Keystoned Ed posted:

There were a series of posts on Walthers and JC heavyweight passenger car kits under the Atwater/All Nation locomotive thread  and I thought folks new to O scale 2 rail might be interested in learning about some of the fine older models that can be found at O scale shows and swap meets.

As far as heavyweight passenger cars kits, in my opinion the highest standard was set by Ralph Brown's American Standard  Car Company.  His side rivet detail,  belt rail, window sash representations were orders of magnitude better than the stamped steel sides by Walthers or JC.  As best as I can tell from my incomplete collection of old ASC catalogs, Ralph designed and produced kits for at least 56 different prototypes.  He also produced a wide selection of streamline car kits in O scale under the American Lightweight Car Company brand.  Due to health issues the ASC line was sold to an individual in Knoxville TN who intended to continue production under the Pullman Scale Car Manufacturing Co. brand.     PSCMC Catalog 1 dated 1995 listed  59 kits including 3 one piece resin body kits.  While I've seen hundreds of ASC kits and built up models at O scale show, I've not seen a PSCMC kit.  Attempts by a friend to order catalogs, kits and parts from the PSCMC's Knoxville P.O. box address were unsuccessful. Below are three examples of built up ASC kits -

The first is a PRR M70 RPO.  The one piece sides are cast in urethane, the floor and roof are wood.  Trucks are PRR prototype from PSC.

Below is an ASC PRR P70 air conditioned coach built by Ted Stepek.  The kit came with a urethane roof and sides and rides on Walthers trucks.   Back in the 1980's correct curved PRR passenger car steps were not yet available so it was offered using Walthers castings.  Some day when I may replace the steps and trucks with brass ones from PSC.  Meanwhile I enjoy running it as is.

Next up is ASC's very nice model of a Pullman plan 3992 13 chair parlor buffet lounge.  It is interesting to note that Ralph Brown used prototype Pullman floor plan numbers for his ASC kit numbers.  ASC and the later PCMC catalogs featured drawings of the car sides and interior seating/partition arrangements.  Most kits were available in as built non-air configuration, or with air duct and related underbody details for the air conditioning upgrades applied to many heavyweights starting in the mid-1930's.  Most Pullman built parlor cars had clearstory roof decks that were wider than used on sleeping cars.  AC roof ducts retrofitted to the parlor cars had steeper and sharply angled contours, making the cars easier to identify in old films/videos. I have around 10 PSMC kits which excellent.  David Duncan was doing several things to improve the line but had a lot going on and sold the company to Scale City Designs who also bought Keli Line.  The last time I looked Scale City was taking orders for kits.  David Duncan told me that when he bought the company from Ralph Brown he figured that Ralph was charging less for the kits than what it cost to put all the parts in the box.