Help Identifying AC Gilbert American Flyer Set

The 307 Atlantic was used in two cataloged sets and a long list of known uncataloged sets. None included the uncataloged 969 rocket launcher made in 1957. If that car is black painted rather than unpainted plastic it is a rare variation.

Many of the uncataloged sets included 6 straights and 20 curves which that set appears to have. If so there would also have been a 747 cardboard trestle set. The closest match is 1955 uncataloged set number 128. It came with the three cars you have, those being the 923, 941 and the 938. the fourth car was the 931 green T&P gondola. It is tempting to say the 969 was substituted but that would not be possible, since the 969 was only made in 1957. There is no 1957 or 1958 set that has a similar consist. That leaves two possibilities, the 969 was a separate purchase or that is a previously undocumented, uncataloged set.

Three things to do. First, there should be a date stamp inside the boiler shell. Try to find that date stamp. Second, most Gilbert boxes have a manufacturers stamp that includes a date as well as the box number. Third, is there any hint of the stamp in the train set number circle. Sometimes a high resolution picture with a phone can show the number because they have a wider color spectrum than the human eye.

Hi Tom,

Thanks for the info. I'll check on the 969 Rocket Launcher tonight as well as the other items. There is no sign of a trestle set. 

In the train set number circle, it is very faintly stamped, "_O_  ADVERTISED" . I assume the first word is "NOT".  

The shipping label from Hub Distributors also says the set contains " 7 pieces "  which I assume to be the engine, tender, Illinois Terminal boxcar, gondola, caboose, rocket launcher flatcar and missing loading car. The only thing I'm not sure about is whether the trackage and the transformer are counted as "pieces", in which case the set would only be the first five items above and the rocket and loading cars would have been extras.

I'll post more tomorrow.

Thanks, again.

Below are two pictures that show examples of set box markings. All boxes should have the manufacturers Stamp plus the box number. Some set boxed were stamped with the packing date at the Gilbert factory. The AJFA stamp is read as 10/61.

"NOT" is a good assumption. There have been no reports of set boxes stamped that way so this could be an interesting find. I have seen a lot of uncataloged sets. There has always been either boxes for the engine and cars, punched out box inserts or cardboard dividers. That set box is  a bit small for the number of pieces. Some uncataloged sets were packed as two tiers, not sure the box is deep enough plus no evidence of the inserts needed for the second tier and its supports. Hopefully you can find a date on the set box and engine.

Perhaps the "Loader" button was used to activate the rocket in lieu of the correctly labeled one. Was the track activation rail with your find?

1. The rocket launcher flatcar is black plastic, not painted.

2. The Train Set circle says "-O- ADVERTISING"; not "ADVERTISED", as I originally thought, so now I have no idea what the first word might be. The "O" in the first word could also be a "D", but it's only 2-4 letters long.

3. I have attached more pictures of the box.

4. I was able to take the shell off and it says "AUG", but the year is unreadable. Looks like the plastic melted from overheating (maybe the light bulb) - just my luck !

5. I did not see an activation track. but I'll look again.

6. The box does not appear to be big enough for two tiers, but it is marked 7 pieces, although I'm not sure if the track and transformer are considered "pieces".

Ahh so the "loader" switch (not button) is for the Oil Drum Loader that apparently didn't make it to you. It likely was an add-on and wouldn't fit in the box. Perhaps it still exists somewhere near where you found the rest.

It's likely set "100ADV" from 1955 which came with the 307, 931, 923, 938, 20 curves, 6 straights and the 747 cardboard trestle set according to Tufts book. Everything else was added.

That works. I looked at it initially and discarded it as an option for some reason that now escapes me. In retrospect 100ADV is likely what is stamped on the set box label.

I neglected to add the date stamp and box number also are correct for a 100ADV set.

That all makes sense. I'm guessing that it says "100 ADVERTISING" in the Train Set Circle.

It looks like the 1955 #100 Advertising set came with the green #931 T&P gondola, but I have the red # 941 Frisco gondola - could they have just substituted late in the year ? 

Any idea on approximate value as it sits (assuming I can get it running) and with the rocket launcher flatcar and associated paperwork but missing the transformer ?

Thanks, guys.

The 941 could be a factory substitute. The missing transformer is a 1 1/2, they are not expensive. I would guess the boxed set could sell for about $100, the set box with the partially legible label stamp adds to the value of the common pieces in the set. If the boxed 747 cardboard trestle set were there it could be a $125 set. I stress this is a guess because a 100ADV set is rarely up for sale. It might be worth more to a collector who wants an original boxed set. The 969 vertical rocket launcher is worth $40 if it is unpainted black plastic, $200 if it is painted black.

Thanks for your time and expertise. I'll see if I can get it up and running and probably put it up for sale. 

@Richie C. posted:

Thanks for your time and expertise. I'll see if I can get it up and running and probably put it up for sale. 

Well, if it's like 99.9% of all other post-wars trains, I'm sure you'll have no problems getting it "up and running"... This stuff is pretty much indestructible.  

Mark in (smoky still) Oregon

The tender looks to have an e-unit switch on the bottom and wipers on the rear axle of each truck and the set does not have the terminal block (lock-on).

What would be the best way to hook up transformer wires to either the track or the engine/tender to see if it will run ? 

@Richie C. posted:

The tender looks to have an e-unit switch on the bottom and wipers on the rear axle of each truck and the set does not have the terminal block (lock-on).

What would be the best way to hook up transformer wires to either the track or the engine/tender to see if it will run ? 

A quick way to connect the wires is to have about 1/4” wire stripped back and when you connect two pieces of track together you place each wire under each pin and then just push the track together to pinch the wires to give a connection. It will get you out of a fix until you find a proper connector.

Thanks, I'll try that - all I'm getting at present is a hum.

Are the tracks insulated from the metal ties that join them together ?

Yes, paper insulators where the ties connect to the rails on all ties.

The lever protruding from the bottom of the tender is to lock the reverse unit in one position if so desired. Only the tender has electrical pickup. The harness must be connected and in good condition. The reverse unit will not cycle if the tender is upside down, the pawl uses gravity to drop when power is interrupted. Try spraying some contact cleaner on the commutator.

Not related to operation but Gilbert engines do not have E units. Lionel designed E units to work with their universal motors with double wound fields. Gilbert motors have single wound fields and use a reverse unit, sometimes called a Remote Control Unit. These devices are electrically different.

One way to quickly tell original Gilbert track from the K Line reproductions is Gilbert track has gray paper insulators and K Line used black paper insulators.

Thanks for all the info - I'll report back Monday.

Cleaned the motor, comm, brushes, etc. and greased and lubed where required. The issue seemed to be that one of the fingers that contact the drum in the tender was not making contact, so the engine would not run. Corrected that and it seems to run very well for a 65 year old loco that probably hasn't seen service in 50 years or more. It runs a lot quieter and smoother on my playroom carpet than I would have expected. In fact, it runs so well I may decide to clean it up some more and keep it rather than sell it.

I left the shell off because the headlight lamp is missing and I don't want to have to install and then remove and re-install the chassis twice - it's a pita. I have a 440/1449 screw-in type lamp coming - I think that's the right bulb.

Was the track layout design just a large "paper-clip" loop like I have ? There are a few curved pieces left over - were those for a small loop on the trestle set that came with it ?

Thanks.

Below are pictures of the 747 trestle set that was missing from the set box. The 100ADV set came with enough track to make the over/under figure 8 shown on the box.

The set is running great!

That explains it - very interesting and thanks again.