Help Needed - Flickering Lights on a Super Chief Passenger Car

First off, you can remove the copper strip and bend it back, then replace it.  They should contact both axles.  Next, make SURE the rollers are both connected, if a wire is broken off one, that will cause the issue.

A big help here is a multimeter, you should really have one of those for working around model trains.

Another thing to do is clean the rollers, they're the prime suspects as you have three of the four wheelsets still in contact with the rails.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

First off, you can remove the copper strip and bend it back, then replace it.  They should contact both axles.  Next, make SURE the rollers are both connected, if a wire is broken off one, that will cause the issue.

A big help here is a multimeter, you should really have one of those for working around model trains.

Another thing to do is clean the rollers, they're the prime suspects as you have three of the four wheelsets still in contact with the rails.

I dunno what a multimeter is but I'll be sure to look at getting one.

I was never good at cleaning rollers, simple because my way of "cleaning" them meant a lot of oily fingernails and the end result didnt even look like anything changed.

As for the copper wire, I'll see if bending it back onto the wheel will do something. Thanks!

Clean the wheels, clean the rollers, and clean the axle and copper strip where they contact each other.  91% isopropyl alcohol works good. Just don't get it on the car bodies.

And, whatever you do don't use steel wool anywhere around your trains. I would suggest cleaning the wheels too.

I found weak springs on both pickup rollers once, I had to replace the pickup rollers and worked good.  Cleaning the rollers is essential to avoid excessive flickering.  The track can look clean even though  it is not. 

TheRWBYRailfan posted:

As for the copper wire, I'll see if bending it back onto the wheel will do something. Thanks!

You can't simply "bend it back"!  You have to remove that screw, form the copper strip properly, then replace it.  If you try to "bend it back", you'll do more harm than good.

In addition to the above, check the internal wiring and make sure the light bulbs aren't loose. 

Mitch

Train Nut posted:

Clean the wheels, clean the rollers, and clean the axle and copper strip where they contact each other.  91% isopropyl alcohol works good. Just don't get it on the car bodies.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

First off, you can remove the copper strip and bend it back, then replace it.  They should contact both axles.  Next, make SURE the rollers are both connected, if a wire is broken off one, that will cause the issue.

A big help here is a multimeter, you should really have one of those for working around model trains.

Another thing to do is clean the rollers, they're the prime suspects as you have three of the four wheelsets still in contact with the rails.

M. Mitchell Marmel posted:

In addition to the above, check the internal wiring and make sure the light bulbs aren't loose. 

Mitch

UPDATE 4/10/19, 8:22 PM, Central Time Zone
The copper wires have been cleaned and bent accordingly, and the lights are now functioning. They still flicker, but I found out that they only flicker when I face the car in a different direction. If the seats are facing the rear of the train, they flicker. If it faces the engine (like it is advertised in the set) it doesn't flicker.

Thanks for the advice guys, really appreciate it! I'll be sure to remember this for when my other passenger cars start giving me issues.

H'm.  Might want to check your track.  Make sure both outer rails are cleaned equally well.  

Mitch 

M. Mitchell Marmel posted:

H'm.  Might want to check your track.  Make sure both outer rails are cleaned equally well.  

Mitch 

Trust me, I've been on it since I got my first maintenance kits a while back. I try to make sure track is as clean as can possibly be, at the horrid expense of sore fingers, hands and arms.

The problem I had with both of the coaches in my set was that the ground wires came loose where they are supposed to be attached to the truck mounting point. I re-soldered them and they both work perfectly.

I had the same problem with a passenger car from that same set.  One copper strip was bent away from the axle, so I removed the strip and instead of bending it back by hand I snuck it over the top of the axle so it touches the top rather than the bottom of the axle.  I also did a complete cleaning, including spraying WD40 on the pin through the rollers.

The roller and mechanism differ from other power pickups in 2 ways, which you can see by comparing the passenger car to the locomotive.

1. This passenger car roller is 1/4" diameter.  Other rollers are 3/8" diameter.

2. This passenger car mechanism for pushing the roller down on the center track is straight line vertical with a flimsy coil spring pushing down.  Check this spring.  Other mechanisms are a slight circular arc with a flat piece of copper acting as a spring.  

So this passenger car mechanism is more sensitive than other mechanisms.  It needs more maintenance and you need to be more careful when doing maintenance.

I have the same issue with the very same passenger car. It's not the track because the other passenger cars light fine.  I have cleaned the wheels and copper strips, and checked the bulbs. The lights still flicker, although they are off more than on. The wires to the rollers are intact as is the ground wire to the trucks.  The car went from working fine to severe flicker overnight. I am asking Lionel for a replacement. The car has no more than 3 hours run time.

Any other ideas?

As GunrunnerJohn posted previously, a multimeter is essential when chasing a problem like this. remember, to have a circuit, you need both sides connected to get results-a power wire and a ground wire.

I've seen poorly done solder joints; I've also found wires broken inside the insulation you'll never see visually. The copper strips (the ground side of the circuit) need to ride with full face contact on the axles. The rollers need to be clean (along with the wheels); this can also include the roller axle itself being dirty. The body of the car should be removed to check all the internal wiring as well to truly solve this issue.

D&H 65 posted:

As GunrunnerJohn posted previously, a multimeter is essential when chasing a problem like this. remember, to have a circuit, you need both sides connected to get results-a power wire and a ground wire.

I've seen poorly done solder joints; I've also found wires broken inside the insulation you'll never see visually. The copper strips (the ground side of the circuit) need to ride with full face contact on the axles. The rollers need to be clean (along with the wheels); this can also include the roller axle itself being dirty. The body of the car should be removed to check all the internal wiring as well to truly solve this issue.

I was able to remove the car's body a while ago but I could not remove the interior seats due to a screw sadly being eaten out. From the little I saw on the interior, everything was intact, clean, connected and apparently in "working" order.

I will NOT be opening the car again any time though, as it was an incredible pain to not only unscrew the screws, but remove the roof from the car body, carefully adjust the details inside without messing with anything and THEN re-install everything. Oh, and I should mention me being personally paranoid about damaging the extremely nice model (not a big fan of mold chips and scratches).

If the issue continues, I'll just send it to a service station or a train show mechanic whenever a show rolls around...we dont get them that often in San Antonio.

I to am reluctant to do anymore disassembly to check solder joints etc. Removing the tiny screws is problematic. I too have stripped out a screw head trying to do so on another car.  Is there some trick to roving these tiny screws without damaging them?  I would like to be able to make repairs myself; it just feels good, but in my mind soldering issues are manufacturing defects and should be covered by Lionel. We'll see!

Jim Radiker posted:

I to am reluctant to do anymore disassembly to check solder joints etc. Removing the tiny screws is problematic. I too have stripped out a screw head trying to do so on another car.  Is there some trick to roving these tiny screws without damaging them?  I would like to be able to make repairs myself; it just feels good, but in my mind soldering issues are manufacturing defects and should be covered by Lionel. We'll see!

I think the "trick" is to let a certified service station take care of the problem or simply send it back to Lionel with the tag "I screwed up the screw, please repair and help k thanks" and hope they can fix it.

I think some things are just out of our hands.

I had a similar problem with lights flashing on most of my Santa Fe passenger set cars.  Given track, wheels and rollers were all clean, it was suggested on this forum to try a conductive lubricant, like Bachmann E-Z Lube, on the rollers which I did.  Have not had the problem since.

MrMoe50 posted:

I had a similar problem with lights flashing on most of my Santa Fe passenger set cars.  Given track, wheels and rollers were all clean, it was suggested on this forum to try a conductive lubricant, like Bachmann E-Z Lube, on the rollers which I did.  Have not had the problem since.

Are these the same Streamlined passenger cars in the new Lionchief Super Chief set or from older sets/passenger add-ons?

TheRWBYRailfan posted:

MrMoe50 posted:

I had a similar problem with lights flashing on most of my Santa Fe passenger set cars.  Given track, wheels and rollers were all clean, it was suggested on this forum to try a conductive lubricant, like Bachmann E-Z Lube, on the rollers which I did.  Have not had the problem since.

Are these the same Streamlined passenger cars in the new Lionchief Super Chief set or from older sets/passenger add-ons?

Older set and add-ons from the 2013 RTR catalog.

MrMoe50 posted:

TheRWBYRailfan posted:

MrMoe50 posted:

I had a similar problem with lights flashing on most of my Santa Fe passenger set cars.  Given track, wheels and rollers were all clean, it was suggested on this forum to try a conductive lubricant, like Bachmann E-Z Lube, on the rollers which I did.  Have not had the problem since.

Are these the same Streamlined passenger cars in the new Lionchief Super Chief set or from older sets/passenger add-ons?

Older set and add-ons from the 2013 RTR catalog.

I am not sure considering I don't have these items but my guess is that those may have different wiring than the ones of today...so maybe thats the reason.

Either that, or im thinking too hard on these things again...

My train is the 6-84719 Sante Fe Super Chief Lionchief set purchased in July of this year.  The car in question is the same car as in the original posting, No. 1474.

I appreciate all the advice.

A good shot of CRC 2-26 with the little red nozzle extension into the pick-up roller pin/axle will help. Wipe the roller with it also and dry with cloth.

Home Depot has the 5 oz can for around $3. It keeps electrical connections and contact areas happy.

Hello to all the O Gauge model train enthusiasts!  First time posting.  I purchased the Lionel Santa Fe Chief Ready-to-Run Electric O-Guage Train Set with LionChief Remote Control System in Nov 2018 in Peddler's Village, PA for our son as a Christmas gift.  We live in the metro west suburbs of Boston (25 miles due west) The issue written by TheRWBYrailfan on 4/9/2019 (well written post, thank you) is exactly the same issue we are experiencing with this set.  *We only run the train once per year around our Christmas Tree on a 4x8 plywood base.  We own a small concrete slab ranch home so space is tight.  Wish we had a basement or extra room to really start a O or HO model train layout.  As with TheRWBYrailfan 4/2019 post, our Lionel Chief (2018 model year) passenger coach car "1474" light flickered as soon as we operated the train set on Christmas Day 2018.  The light continued to flicker during the month of December & January 2019. (Second time using the set).  The light stopped working in coach "1474".  I noticed one of the pins to the spring was not connected properly.  I pushed the pin with the spring back into place.  The light still would not illuminate.  However, when placing my hand on the top of the coach and tilting to left or right, the light turns on strongly and stays lit.  When letting the coach car sit normally (not tilted by hand), the light won't illuminate. My attention is drawn to the fact that both truck assemblies on coach "1474" are loose compared to the other passenger coach cars "ISLETA" & "500" with the Lionel Chief set. "ISLETA" & "500" lights work fine.  I think this is a manufacturing defect by Lionel associated with coach car "1474".  Wonder how many other people have this exact same issue?  How do you tighten the truck assemblies?  Where is the screw to tighten the truck assembly?  There is not a screw head on the bottom of the truck assembly.  Also, how the heck do you remove the top of the coach car?  The coach body seems all connected.  If the coach body can be disconnected, is it  difficult to remove?  Any suggestions on how to safely remove the top of the coach car? Is the screw to tighten the truck assembly inside the coach interior?  I have tried the suggestions that are written in the other reply posts.  The other solutions have not resulted in the light staying lit inside coach "1474".   Most importantly, this is "a first world issue", but it would be nice to have the train operate as advertised.  We live 26 miles west of Charles Ro Supply Company in Malden, Massachusetts (America's Largest Train Store, Charles passed away 2 weeks ago at age 92).  We can take coach "1474" to this train store for repair if needed.  Merry Christmas to all!  Our son John will be receiving a Lionel LionChief Steam Locomotive "Reading Railroad" from Santa in the morning.  He keeps asking about this light in coach "1474".  Thanks in advance for any suggestions.  - Team Kavanagh, Maynard, Massachusetts.

I recently had the same issue with one passenger car of a 7 car consist.  I tracked it down to week springs that push the roller to the track.  I bent a piece of electrical wire with the plastic coating, which happened to be the right thickness, around the shaft between the wire and end of the rivet.  This added enough down force on the pickup roller to eliminate the flicker.

1.  Merry Christmas.

2.  Glad you got car fixed.

3.  SP794 with your signature. Engine which used to be on park on Broadway and the ex-electric railroad serving the Pearl Brewery and is now near the Sunset and Amtrak Depots in San Antonio TX

Hello guys,

I think I have found the problem of the lighting on this set. The roller is as the same high of the wheels. So the roller just touch the central rail with a very very little pressure, because the the pick-up is too small!

You always can say that the roller diameter is too small. (6mm)

So I decided to turn with machine a new one in 8mm in brass.

Now it's OK, the lighting is not flickering.

I'm so surprised that Lionel could be make such a

mistake!

Sorry for the English, I come from France.

For those without the ability to turn a new roller, you can always unscrew the pick-up assembly and cut a thin (2 mm) piece of metal to about the same size as the pick-up base; drill a hole through it; and then re-attach the pick-up roller assembly with the newly cut metal piece underneath it.

That will lower the roller height so it makes good contact with the center rail.

Hello Richie, good tips, but in this case I think it doesn't work because the pick-up is fixed under the truck, not on the truck, so you cannot add something to to be more near the rail.

I’ve got the original set and the add on cars and will second Hiawatha’s comment above. I’ve had broken ground wires on both coaches and the observation car despite running them on a large 0-36 oval around the Christmas tree each year. This is an easy fix!

As to removal of the roof from one of these cars, that is a genuine PITA. What has worked well for me after removing the screws, is to use a clean thin blade putty knife to GENTLY work into the seam between the car side and roof and pry the side out enough to free the roof tabs. And I will repeat do this gently and carefully to avoid cracking the side or marring the finish of the car.

Curt