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I need some help to identify that loco.... It is a 280 model but who may have done it ?  I am not a great specialist or real steam models from USA and less for old scale model ones, even if I have some, but I really enjoy those old hand made ones, I have many similar pieces from French manufacturers of the same  time and it would be a great pleasure for me to know more about it. I have founded on the web that Central Locomotive Works has produced a similar one, I think a scale model but not old and also maybe some others.

It is a two rails O gauge engine. All brass, the weight of the loco is similar to a K4 Scalecraft, so extremely heavy and the look is very similar to a Scalecraft Hudson, typical from the 30-50's pieces. It is not a modern model....

For me that loco may have the look of a New York Central engine, but what kind of tender will match with as it has been lost unfortunately. If someone has a spare tender I would be extremely happy to save this model, it is always sad to keep a piece incomplete.

DCP0651dcp0652dcp0653dcp0654

I would welcome any idea and help, many thanks, Daniel

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Last edited by FRENCHTRAINS
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WEll, It is not a CLW loco in my opinion.    CLW reworked and made a kit for the PRR H10 consolidation which is chunkier looking and most important has a Belpaire fire box.   I have two of them.   The details also are not like the CLW loco.    Another one I would rule out is the Hine/Pearce 2-8-0.    That model is based on their USRA 0-8-0 but again I think has a fatter boiler and a more husky look.

The underside with the open axle gear probably dates this to the 1940s-50s at best.    However the level and quality of the detail that appears in the photos compares well with newer models.    I don't think it is a Brass Import.   I think it might be scratch built either by one of the custom builders of that era, or an individual for personal use.

I am not familiar with most RR steamers except Pennsylvania RR (PRR) to some extent.     so I have no idea what the prototype might be.   It appears to be a nice model and with some "tender loving care" (TLC) could be a nice piece.   Straightening out the bends and dents on the cab roof and other details and a new paint job would do wonders.   

Unless you find a prototype, any generic tender would work I think.   You might find an old All Nation or General models tender that would do nicely.

@prrjim posted:

The underside with the open axle gear probably dates this to the 1940s-50s at best.    However the level and quality of the detail that appears in the photos compares well with newer models.    I don't think it is a Brass Import.   I think it might be scratch built either by one of the custom builders of that era, or an individual for personal use.

 It appears to be a nice model... 

I probably shouldn't even comment, as I am a complete novice (   but if you look at the lower portion of the cylinder, it appears that there are some "flattened filed" areas, so I would also guess scratch-built.

In any case, a very "nice model" indeed. You should be pleased. 

Mark in (smokey) Oregon

A lot of information, many thanks everybody.  It confirms what I thought about this piece, 40's or 50's in regard of the construction. Even the paint looks period. I have seen pictures of CLW models but they are not the exact same model and this one is not for the PRR.  I enjoy the idea of a home made model from Hines/Pearce base. I have searched  through different forums and founded that construction is similar.

This model of course doesn't have smoke or sound system, the two long pin tails are to take current from one side of the tender, one for the motor and the other for the front light. Similar system I have in Scalecraft models, and it seems it was a common thing in those times. One side of the loco is isolated and one side of the tender also so perfect for two rails operation; of course it could be possible to mount a third rail pick up but I prefer keeping it for two rails operation.  I do not know what type of motor is in the body, just received i this evening, but it seems to run smoothly and be very powerful.

The major problem will be to find a correct period and matching tender. The idea of an All nation one would be fine for this type of engine,   just need to find one and in France it is not a common thing to find at all.... but there is auction sites so maybe one will appear.

The future of this engine is using a lot of TLC as you said a make a great model. Straightening the cab is not a problem, some details to make it look good, some soldering to do better, and a nice paint job.  I would prefer to do the paint at the same time of the loco and tender but finding one may need some luck and time...  except if someone has an extra one.

I hope to show it to you after restoration in a not too long time.

Thanks again, Daniel

My guess is that the long wire is the tender electrical connection. There are no visible pickups to the wheels, so I am guessing that the current collection works by the loco chassis being live to one rail with insulated wheels on one side, the tender being live to the opposite rail and a connection between them.

This was a common American form of construction, still used today (my MMI 2-8-2 locos, made in the early 2000s work that way) 

I would say you nailed it Dennis!

It looks like the axles are captive in the chassis (no individual pedestal binders or "bottom plate.")  This is what is shown in your second photo, and it would make sense that the chassis was sold already assembled as a unit (like Lionel's 700K.)  And look at the size of that worm wheel!  I wonder what the gear ratio was on this thing!  Nice find!!

It looks like a home made brass/tin boiler on the Scale Models chassis, compare the underside of Daniel’s loco to the catalog. Lead truck is the same fire box pan is the same with the slots for the wheels, the chassis is the same. 

You guys got Dennis to come out!...good to see you makin replies Dennis!,....haven’t seen you around here in a minute!!...

Pat

The Cab roof is a strong identification.  Only Hines/Pearce made this type roof with indented roof hatches.  Clearly a Pearce model - he purchased the line through an intermediary (Kansas City Kits) from Hines Lines.  Henry Pearce made a few improvements over the years but this model kit could have been made any time between 1950 and 1970.  I think after that Henry may have used a closed gearbox.

Hello all ...drive looks like Hines      Hines advertised a Mikado (1946)  , 0-8-0 ( 1947) , and a Pacific (1949) .......but there are several of the Consolidations out there     ......Hines went to Simmons in KS   about 1951 ..and shortly after to Pearce .....so unknown if the Consolidation is a pure Hines or a later Pearce ...

Jim DeBruin wrote about Hines with photos comparing the Consolidation / Mike / 0-8-0 ... photos below . 

the tender is cast aluminum..... looks as if same tender for all engines .

Bill Lenoir designed the Hines engines ...that is why that look good ...  only the Mike has Adams castings ..later engines cast some where else ... perhaps  Pearce ? ..... 

 

Last photos the Berkshire .... designed by Lenoir ..in my opinion the best looking of the bunch ... was going to be after the Mike in production  casting by Adams ...but Hines forgot to pay Adams for the Mike castings ...so Berk castings were sold to Central Locomotive Works  by 1948 ...

 

Cheers Carey  

 

MR Dec 1946 Mike Pacific April MR 1949MR Dec 1947 080 annoucementmy 080Mike 188Hines-Pearce 2-8-0 and 080Hines 282 and Pearce 280 Jim

 

Berkshire with tender aBerkshire with tender

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Images (9)
  • MR Dec 1946 Mike
  • Pacific April MR 1949
  • MR Dec 1947   080 annoucement
  • my 080
  • Mike 188
  • Hines-Pearce 2-8-0 and 080
  • Hines 282 and Pearce 280 Jim
  • Berkshire with tender a
  • Berkshire with tender
@bob2 posted:

Here is my friend Jim's Pearce Consolidation.  I have his permission to post his photos, but use it sparingly.  This is a worthy place.

This model is so attractive I patterned mine after it.  I may even get "Erie" decals!

image

Bob,  Hahaha, I remember that Erie 2-8-0! That was my dad's. I think he acquired it sometime in the 1960's. For years it wore basic black. One day I said that thing needed a paint job. So...there it is. I wanted colorful graphics on it. I also added the removable front end air tank. I sold that on ebay some years back. Glad it ended up somewhere safe, whoever that Jim is.  The 584, meaning that is when it was last painted, (May 1984)

Last edited by PRRK4s

Weaver sold the tender as a separate sale item as it was a perfect improved die cast version of the tenders supplied by Pearce and All Nation.  That is why it is not lettered.  The Weaver tender was supplied with his poorly received pacific which was a die cast and extremely similar to the All Nation pacific.  He (Joe Hayter)  sold the pacific tooling to K-Line who did better with sales to the 3 rail crowd.

JJ

@j2morris posted:

Weaver sold the tender as a separate sale item as it was a perfect improved die cast version of the tenders supplied by Pearce and All Nation.  That is why it is not lettered.  The Weaver tender was supplied with his poorly received pacific which was a die cast and extremely similar to the All Nation pacific.  He (Joe Hayter)  sold the pacific tooling to K-Line who did better with sales to the 3 rail crowd.

JJ

Actually, the Pacific was made for K-line. Weaver Models took the order because K-line closed right before these were finished. These Pacific engines sold very well for Weaver Models, I have one and I am still looking for another 2 rail version. 

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