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Hi all, 

 

I admit I need help repairing an American Flyer 21160 steam engine. 

 

Are there any out there proficient in repairing AF, and would be willing to help?

 

 

I cleaned the armature, and put brushes in, but I am getting nothing, I connected power directly to the two prong connector and still nothing

 

are theses similar in repair methods used in Lionel Postwar?

 

any advice is appreciate

 

Bill

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The 21160 has a 2 position reverse unit in the engine. Lionel calls them E units. Putting power on the 2 pin connector does not bypass the reverse unit on this engine which is the most likely problem. Portlines Hobbies has the wiring diagram on their website. With your experience on Lionel the wiring diagram may give you the info you need to diagnose the problem. The motor is a universal 3 pole motor with a series field and armature, very simple. Hopefully there is not a broken wire in one of the windings. 

ok... I checked the armature, I am getting 1.8 ohms balanced.  No Continuity to the shaft so I feel the armature is good.

I put longer springs in the brush tube, the ones that were  in were small and not putting pressure where needed.

This model has a switch wired in the boiler, I powered it up and I am getting a humming sound but no movement of the armature. 

It was suggested that there is a 2 position reversing unit in this model in the tender, but the wiring schematic does not show it.  In addition what is the best way to take the tender shell off without damage, all I see is four metal tabs.

 

Any help is appreciated

I located the reference book and see that the 21160 has no light, smoke/cho cho or reverse unit. I had it confused with the 21106. All these engines were uncatalogued. 

Since you get a humming sound there is apparently electrical continuity through the engine. Can you rotate the armature to see if there is any binding? 

Originally Posted by bbsfdl60:

I know how to jump to test lionel motors directly, is it the same forAF?

 

Silly question I should know the answer to, how to test the field for continuity?

 

It should be the same in theory as jumping a lionel postwar motor. A good field will measure 1 to 2 ohms with a meter. Isolate the field by removing the brushes. I believe the Forward/Reverse switch changes the polarity on the field. That could be another source of your problem.

The field should measure 1.2 to 1.4 ohms per the reference manual. It is connected to the two center contacts of the slide switch. As mentioned above, take out the brushes to isolate the field. Since this motor has a series connected field and armature with no other features measure across the two power pins with an ohmmeter. If it reads near 3 ohms with the slide switch in first one position and then the other the motor should be ok. 

Originally Posted by bbsfdl60:

Thanks I will try that, we actually have a big AF base in our area, we get them time to time and most I can repair.. This one is really stubborn, and I am not as proficient with these as I would like.

 

Ill keep updated

If you still need a wiring diagram I have one for the 21160 I can post for you.  Let me know.

 

Bill

Originally Posted by markjs:

I too need some info on repairing a 21160.  My problem is basic, but I'm not good at repairing anything.  Anyhow--real simple:  how does one reattach a wire at the plug which goes into the tender?  (I didn't want to initiate a new thread for such a simple question.)

Mark

I assume you just mean that one of the wires pulled out of the 2-prong plug.

 

Look here. Read note "B" beneath the diagram.

Originally Posted by bbsfdl60:

update,

 

I "hotwired" the motor which bypassed the two position switch, the motor spun.  When I apply power to the two pin plug the motor just hums but no movement.  SO can I blame the switch as the issue. Can I get that as a replacement part?  any more help would be appreciated

Yes, the switch is the issue.

Is the "hum" the motor itself? Or the e-unit coil?

The E-units tend to hum a little when energized.

 Look for missing contact fingers, (I think there are six), or crud/dry grease around them on the e unit drum.

Spray clean as Roy suggests.

 

 

The Port Lines item likely isn't a an e unit for $1.50. I suspect its a manual dpdt switch that can do the job.

 

 

This engine has no reversing unit. The DPDT switch mounted in the rear of the cab is used to change engine direction. If a quick spray with contact cleaner does not cause the switch to work then a new one for $1.50 is the easiest fix since the motor works when the switch is bypassed. it still may be possible to repair the old switch but it may not be worth the trouble. 

usually those kind of engine switches can be taken apart very easily, there is usually metal tabs on all 4 corner of the switch you  just bend the tab back away from the wafer side of the switch where all the wires are soldered,you have to be carefully when you pull it apart as there are little copper spring to keep pressure on the 6 DPDT contact switch, you don't want to loose them , sometimes the copper springs loose there pressure and you can pull them out with you fingers or needle nose pliers, then reassemble and bend the metal tabs over the wafer again the then power up and try again. all the switch does is reverse the field coil in relation to the commuter to make the engine run in either direction.all the train ac motors work on that principal!

let me know if you need a sketch or drawing i put a picture in for you!

Alan

Last edited by Alan Mancus

Craig Donath as far as your question it is very common on American Flyer s gauge engines the  the 2 or 4 wire s between the tender and locomotive do break and you can buy those harness's from ebay already made up. a lot of the  original harness's are a carbon based wire and are very flexible but break easily from flexing on the curves. just buy the 2 or 4 wires harness's off ebay they are already cut and made to install on the engine in the back of the cab and inside the tender, as long as you know how to solder you'll have no problem,. if you can find then let me know and I'll post the address on ebay for the harness's

 

Good luck

Alan

Originally Posted by repair technician:

Craig Donath as far as your question it is very common on American Flyer s gauge engines the  the 2 or 4 wire s between the tender and locomotive do break and you can buy those harness's from ebay already made up. a lot of the  original harness's are a carbon based wire and are very flexible but break easily from flexing on the curves. just buy the 2 or 4 wires harness's off ebay they are already cut and made to install on the engine in the back of the cab and inside the tender, as long as you know how to solder you'll have no problem,. if you can find then let me know and I'll post the address on ebay for the harness's

 

Good luck

Alan

I actually didn't post a question. My post was in response to the question posted by markjs about (I assume) simply reattaching the wires to a late style 2-prong plug. The note in the Portlines link mentions how to make such a repair.

ash standard posted:

Can someone help me put a motor into my dummy 4686 ACE locomotive? It is a Varney Sirus Reproduction and came with no motor. How expensive is parts and labor for a motor installation that allows the bell to ring. 

Ash Standard

ashrajan5124@gmail.com 973-718-1275

In order to have a motor that allows the bell to ring, you will have to find a bell ringing motor out of a standard gauge Flyer engine, as I doubt there is any sort of mechanism for a bell ringer in your motor shell.  As for how expensive it would be, it all depends on the condition of the motor that you find to put in it.  If the motor needs a lot of work, you can be looking at re-wheeling costs, re-wiring costs, if the insulation is bad, and new springs and brushes.  If you find one with all the work done, you should expect to pay a higher price.  

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