The folks at Lionel might as well just release the thing online I mean it's showing up everywhere.  Unless you are willing to enforce the no catalog before the online release then all the secrecy is a moot point.  

Marty

 

Below the Signature...

"Fool me once, shame on you.  Fool me twice, shame on me." Mr. Scott

If you're ok with it, you can have it back.  

 

Original Post
MartyE posted:

The folks at Lionel might as well just release the thing online I mean it's showing up everywhere.  Unless you are willing to enforce the no catalog before the online release then all the secrecy is a moot point.  

I totally agree Marty. This is just getting stupid. For the second catalog in a row, dealers have gotten hard copies prior to the scheduled release date. Last time a kid posted it on YouTube, and Lionel begged Alan to try and "put the toothpaste back in the tube" here on the forum. This shouldn't be his problem, it should be Lionel's. If they can't control either their printer or their dealers, then they might as well level the playing field, and just put it up online, as soon as the customers get a whiff. This is simply nonsense. This never used to happen. What changed this year?

yamaha226 posted:

It is all part of the hype. People jumpin from web site to web site lookin for a peek.

 

That concept had crossed my mind. If that's the plan, it's kind of working. But then Lionel shouldn't come back and ask Alan to clean up the forum, like last time.

Big_Boy_4005 posted:
yamaha226 posted:

It is all part of the hype. People jumpin from web site to web site lookin for a peek.

 

That concept had crossed my mind. If that's the plan, it's kind of working. But then Lionel shouldn't come back and ask Alan to clean up the forum, like last time.

Unless Lionel thought that there was something even slightly damaging in the thread.  Typically the threads that happens to are when people complain about the quality - or lack thereof.

- Brian 

Steam locomotives never really die - they wait and watch until they are fired up once more.

romiller49 posted:

Who cares? I hope Lionel doesn’t chime in at all. It is what it is. I’ll look at the catalog when I get one. Too many real life things to worry about. 

Says the man who cares enough to post to this thread.

Marty

 

Below the Signature...

"Fool me once, shame on you.  Fool me twice, shame on me." Mr. Scott

If you're ok with it, you can have it back.  

 

Normally, I don't care, as my world does not revolve around any train catalog. When a new one comes out online, I look at it, then decide if I want anything. I've said this many times in the past, I don't have a wish list, like so many here. Right now, I couldn't even go to my LHS to see one, because it is in a basement location, and I can't do the steps, after breaking my leg.

I figure along about the time I could do the stairs, Lionel will post it online, so what's the point? Beside, I don't buy my trains there anyway. Like I said earlier, Marty was right, Lionel should just post it at this point, before the stink gets any bigger. 

Big_Boy_4005 posted:
yamaha226 posted:

It is all part of the hype. People jumpin from web site to web site lookin for a peek.

 

That concept had crossed my mind. If that's the plan, it's kind of working. But then Lionel shouldn't come back and ask Alan to clean up the forum, like last time.

I think your right.

I started this thread not really to give Lionel grief but at what point do you just give up and release it.  I can certainly wait but for the next 2 weeks we'll have to deal with poor photos of the catalog and Alan chasing down all the threads that Lionel doesn't want with the catalog info in it.  Maybe it is to generate hype but in the past Lionel always seemed to be more effective at keeping the paper catalog at bay until the online was posted.

The other issue as I see it, some dealers are following Lionel's wish and not putting the catalog out and then some blatantly are handing them out.  Maybe a dealer can chime in.  What is Lionel's policy on handing out catalogs before the release date online? 

 

Marty

 

Below the Signature...

"Fool me once, shame on you.  Fool me twice, shame on me." Mr. Scott

If you're ok with it, you can have it back.  

 

Releasing products on a set date is a tradition.  Catalog's are an advertising product.  This tradition most likely stems from good businesses practice.  IMHO its creates anticipation which is good for advertising, it's orderly which probably makes it cost effective and it's fair (consumers have equal opportunity to get a catalog and dealers don't get a run on catalogs). 

 Not that this is a great analogy but why do you have a lineup and a starting gun at the start of a race.  You could simply have each horse run individually and the fastest wins.  Fairness comes to mind and it's probably hard to sell tickets to that kind of race, seems like an anticipation killer and not a money maker.  But there is no debate on how to start a race because of tradition.  It's the way it's done.

If catalog's are being released early, it's a breaking of tradition.   Most traditions are in place for good reasons for all.

Steve

MartyE posted:

I started this thread not really to give Lionel grief but at what point do you just give up and release it.  I can certainly wait but for the next 2 weeks we'll have to deal with poor photos of the catalog and Alan chasing down all the threads that Lionel doesn't want with the catalog info in it.  Maybe it is to generate hype but in the past Lionel always seemed to be more effective at keeping the paper catalog at bay until the online was posted.

The other issue as I see it, some dealers are following Lionel's wish and not putting the catalog out and then some blatantly are handing them out.  Maybe a dealer can chime in.  What is Lionel's policy on handing out catalogs before the release date online? 

 

Do you all think it would it be better to release it on their site first and follow up with the printed then? 

Most friends feel the "secretive York release" to be the most boneheaded marketing move of all time!

shorling posted:

Releasing products on a set date is a tradition.  Catalog's are an advertising product.  This tradition most likely stems from good businesses practice.  IMHO its creates anticipation which is good for advertising, it's orderly which probably makes it cost effective and it's fair (consumers have equal opportunity to get a catalog and dealers don't get a run on catalogs). 

Tradition?  Maybe the NEW tradition is releasing the catalog, then coming down on forum providers for publishing the information before it goes online...   Before there was an internet, there were always whispers of the next catalog.

I didn't see people falling over themselves at the catalog rack snatching 2019 V2 catalogs at my LHS.  In fact, one of the employee's had to point the catalogs out to us.  There were still plenty left at closing.

It's a model train catalog forPete'ssake, not the nuclear launch codes.  Coming down on people for posting images and information two weeks early makes about as much sense as the dismal running "Paul Bunyan" skit(?) on the one Dave & Ryan show.

Besides, two weeks after the catalog goes online, the buzz pretty much drops off. 

If Lionel want to keep it a secret, ship the catalogs on the Thursday or Friday before it goes live online.  People are still going to praise or criticize the contents and/or pricing regardless on when the information becomes public.

Lionel may get an additional two weeks of buzz, but minds are probably not going to change between hard copy leaks and online publication.

Rusty

SDIV Tim posted:

In all Honesty it be better to release it once proofread and the first set of catalogs ship from the printer. 

"Proofread"?  What is this "proofread" of which you speak?

On a side note, re: before the close to instantaneous  internet posting we have today, I do recall maybe 15-20 years ago my dealer occasionally getting a single store copy before the masses were shipped to give to customers, and he would normally let customers browse through it while in the store.

This was not "pre internet", but was before everything happened so close in sync as it does now.  And I don't seem to recall most dealers scanning in the pages and posting them either, because you would actually visit their store to see it (which is generally a good thing! ) !!

We obviously live in a different marketing environment/strategy now.  Probably not many (if any) of the remaining brick and mortar dealers survive on foot traffic alone, most successful ones have expanded into internet presence in one form or another as well.

-Dave

MartyE posted:

I started this thread not really to give Lionel grief but at what point do you just give up and release it.  I can certainly wait but for the next 2 weeks we'll have to deal with poor photos of the catalog and Alan chasing down all the threads that Lionel doesn't want with the catalog info in it.  Maybe it is to generate hype but in the past Lionel always seemed to be more effective at keeping the paper catalog at bay until the online was posted.

The other issue as I see it, some dealers are following Lionel's wish and not putting the catalog out and then some blatantly are handing them out.  Maybe a dealer can chime in.  What is Lionel's policy on handing out catalogs before the release date online? 

 

I'm with you Marty. I think that part of what were are seeing this year is because of last year's catalog mishap where there were no catalogs in stores even after it was live on Lionel's website. I can wait for sure, I knew of a few things that would be in there, BB's & 4-4-0's and probably some UP stuff to go with the BB's.

I like how even though there has been limited stuff popped up across my eyes, I'm glad that I haven't seen any more. I am hoping that some of what is still out of my sight is something to spark my interest even more. I know that I'm interested in the Santa Fe Northern as I missed those last time around, so at least I got something on my list.

Big_Boy_4005 posted:

Normally, I don't care, as my world does not revolve around any train catalog.

But here you are.

I'm here too - and I have not ordered anything from a new catalogue (anybody's) in several years...except for that Legacy Niagara. It's the Pilot version, so does that count? No paint and all that. 

You mean they realized that at this point it's sort of the equivalent of holding back your Christmas catalog until January 1st?

While I haven't seen it (at least not entirely) yet, a lot of people's reaction to it being released on the Lionel site at this point will be "so what?  I saw it last week on eBay/ at train store/ Instagram, etc". 

-Dave

D500 posted:
Big_Boy_4005 posted:

Normally, I don't care, as my world does not revolve around any train catalog.

But here you are.

I'm here too - and I have not ordered anything from a new catalogue (anybody's) in several years...except for that Legacy Niagara. It's the Pilot version, so does that count? No paint and all that. 

True, but I always like to register an opinion on these topics. On the other hand, I do order from these new catalogs, and haven't missed one in a few years now.

I see that Lionel has come to its senses, and capitulated, to a compromise date of Monday the 15th. In another topic, I took the 16th as the day someone would post it to the internet. Dang, missed it by one, and didn't think it would be Lionel posting it either.

johnstrains posted:

Gotta love these OGR catalog threads.

I especially appreciate the irony of those clamoring for release NOW as many of them will be the same folks posting later, "...nothing in there for me."

Well how do you know if you are going to want something or not until you see the catalog?  Isn't that the point?  To see the catalog before you decide if you will be purchasing anything?  

Marty

 

Below the Signature...

"Fool me once, shame on you.  Fool me twice, shame on me." Mr. Scott

If you're ok with it, you can have it back.  

 

MartyE posted:
johnstrains posted:

Gotta love these OGR catalog threads.

I especially appreciate the irony of those clamoring for release NOW as many of them will be the same folks posting later, "...nothing in there for me."

Well how do you know if you are going to want something or not until you see the catalog?  Isn't that the point?  To see the catalog before you decide if you will be purchasing anything?  

C'mon, Marty. Well, yeah, duh. But I still see irony.

It's a little Friday morning humor about what has become a very humorous regular topic here.

In any event glad to see it'll be out for all to see on Monday.

TCA, LCCA

AlanRail posted:

they got us all talking about it.

wasn't that the point??

We always talk about catalogs without additional provocation.

The only thing they really buy with this stunt, is a little more ordering time. I'm not sure it increases the total orders by much. It sure isn't going to change the delivery schedule. That was probably set before it even went to the printer. 

Wouldn't it be a better plan to not set a hard date in the first place? Then when the printer says they're ready to ship, you set it for online release within a day or two of the scheduled arrival. That way everyone can see it at the same time, and the hard copies will be out in the next day or so, and the fun can really begin. 

Personally, I don't need a hard copy to place my order. I know some of you guys love them. Charlie Ro eventually sends me one, which I put on my book shelf with all the others, for future reference.

As Elliott said: "Wouldn't it be a better plan to not set a hard date in the first place?"  

I think so.  But.  I really like the extra publicity that Lionel as gotten here.  Why would it be in Lionel's interest to keep this a secret?

I will probably order quite a few items from this catalog ... but I will wait until I have the catalog in my hands.  

"Gotta" love toy trains.  

 

 

RT   

Fredstrains posted:

Looks like Marty got his way!!  Lionel is going to release it on their Website Monday Morning at 9:00 AM.     LOL 

 

They might as well since they probably lose some sales holding it back.

 

Sueme Valley System

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