Hi Rail or Scale GGD Passenger cars for new Visionline Niagara - Which one

Just ordered one of the new Visionline Niagara's in Gray.  GGD has reservations open for their 20th Century Limited passenger cars.  Available options are Hi-Rail or Scale.  I'm not a rivet counter, just an operator.  I use Atlas track with 72 being my smallest curves.  Is one better than the other as far as reliability and forgiveness?  

Bryant

TCA 18-73717

Original Post

Scale wheels are problematic on Atlas O track. They will run on straights and large curves at slower speeds but will not negotiate turnouts well unless they are modified. Frequent derailments occur on unmodified turnouts.

Passengers will please refrain, This train's got the disappearin' railroad blues...

Norton posted:

Are you sure you aren't looking at an old ad? These came out 6-7 years ago. GGD does 2 rail or 3 rail. The cars are the same, the trucks and couplers are different.

Pete

I was mistaken.  They had S scale not O.  I will be on the hunt for passenger cars for this engine.  20th Century Limited will be the key to match the engine.  I'm not in a rush, but want to get the best smooth side cars available.  Something along the lines of Lionel # 6-15326.  They look nice, but scarce.  In all honesty I have not begun to dig.  The Niagara was an impulse buy a couple of days ago. 

Bryant

TCA 18-73717

Scrapiron Scher posted:

Scale wheels are problematic on Atlas O track. They will run on straights and large curves at slower speeds but will not negotiate turnouts well unless they are modified. Frequent derailments occur on unmodified turnouts.

Exactly the information I was looking for.  Thanks for the insight.

Bryant

TCA 18-73717

The best IMHO would be the GGD 1940 20th Century cars if you have room for 21" cars. Like looking for hens teeth though. 2nd would be the latest run of MTH 18" cars. They did both 1938 and 1940 schemes. 1940 would have white stripes vs blue and better match the tender. It would be luck if the grays matched though. No one has done cars that match the others engines and even MTH cars don't always match their own engines.

MTH 20-68237

Pete

Hot Water posted:

Since the New York Central never had any "gray Niagara" steam locomotives, you shouldn't worry about acquiring any "Scale" passenger equipment for the model to haul. As many folks here are prone to respond; "It's your railroad, do what you want.".

Thanks for your thoughts.  I was concerned more for forgiving operation as opposed to realism.  As I mentioned earlier, I don't count rivets.  I have both types and don't see much difference.

Bryant

TCA 18-73717

Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:

… I'm not in a rush, but want to get the best smooth side cars available.  Something along the lines of Lionel # 6-15326.  They look nice, but scarce. …

The Visionline Niagara is a scale engine, and the Lionel cars are not (shorter than scale by 3-4 inches).  Also, the Lionel cars are generic while the GGD cars are closer to prototype.  That said, the Lionel cars are nice and to many they look better on tighter curves, even your O72 curves, then the longer GGD cars.

I have similar passenger cars from GGD and Lionel in Pennsy colors.  On my old layout, which did not have the greatest O-72 trackwork, the Lionel cars ran better.  However, I really like the look of my GGD cars especially behind my larger engines such as my scale T1 Duplex, Centipedes or E7 ABA.  A lot depends on what you want.

If you want the GGD cars and are using high-rail track, I would go with the 3-rail models.  You can close the gap between the cars by going to Kadee couplers, but that is a different topic.

ADDED: I need to type faster - I see others have already made similar comments

Ron

 

TCA, TTOS, NCT, LCCA, PRRT&HS

 

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Bryant Dunivan 111417 posted:
Hot Water posted:

Since the New York Central never had any "gray Niagara" steam locomotives, you shouldn't worry about acquiring any "Scale" passenger equipment for the model to haul. As many folks here are prone to respond; "It's your railroad, do what you want.".

Thanks for your thoughts.  I was concerned more for forgiving operation as opposed to realism.  As I mentioned earlier, I don't count rivets.  I have both types and don't see much difference.

Hope you enjoy your version of the Niagara and post some images of the cars you choose to run with it! A friend has a set of the 2Rail GGD 20th Century cars and they don't roll very well, his engines can't pull the entire set. IIRC I think they changed manufacturers a few times after that set and the current models roll much easier. The MTH car pictured in Pete's reply looks nice and they run very well. Unfortunately color matching by and between manufacturers is a disaster at best.

 

If you're set on GGD cars, you can disregard my post, as I was going to point out pros/cons. 

I bought the GGD El Capitan set new and Niagara silver cars set used at the Amherst show a few years back. They are high quality, externally beautiful, and I think both have flicker free lighting.  But, the interior lighting only really hits the middle 50% of the cars, which looks very odd when operated in low lighting.  The few passengers included also look like blow up dolls, which to me is contrary to the realism of the car's exterior.  And, the price is extreme in comparison to what's available from MTH and Lionel - for someone like me who isn't a rivet counter or cares about prototypical seating and just wants a quality car at a decent price.  And, while I love scale, to me, scale looks toyish, even on my 090 curves.  This last comment obviously also applies to the recent Lionel 21" cars and the Atlas scale cars. Which is a perfect segue:

I have several MTH and Lionel passenger car sets and the Atlas CZ set.  I think the MTH 18" cars are the best value in the entire O gauge passenger car segment, hands down.  For the money, they have top of the line craftsmanship and quality, are very well detailed, 10 passengers that don't look like blow up dolls, and the hardware is state of the art.  True, they might not be scale, but close enough to me with my 072 - 0108 curves and basement that doesn't have 150' in length for a layout.

I also like the Lionel cars and, while this is a personal thing, I prefer their cars to all others in cases where they have Railsounds. Yes, these RS cars rival the price of the GGD cars, but I value the additional play value  for the money. Plus the interior lighting doesn't look hokey as it covers the entire interior.  Just a step forward to me in terms of advancing the art. 

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