Hip Hip Hooray - Sunset offers the E1 and EA

Is the Post-War EA set the only correct choice (Of the two being done) for the GGD Capital cars currently being offered?  Also, what version of the E1 is being offered?  Delighted to see these offered.  

Yeah, I'm very excited about them as well.   I wonder if the success of the E6 helped to generate interest.

PRR 5841 posted:

Is the Post-War EA set the only correct choice (Of the two being done) for the GGD Capital cars currently being offered?  

Since the Capitol Limited is the 1950's version the post war set would be the best choice.

rheil posted:

PRR 5841 posted:

Is the Post-War EA set the only correct choice (Of the two being done) for the GGD Capital cars currently being offered?  

Since the Capitol Limited is the 1950's version the post war set would be the best choice.

Thanks! I was goint to say the same but was not 100% sure.  This makes the potential for the Capital Limited even better.

I would hope that Scott would also do the EMD demo #822 since the carbody is so close to the E1.

YES!!  Merry Christmas to me!!  Received my confirmation email from 3rd Rail yesterday!!  Have been looking/waiting for a reasonable priced E1 to be offered for a long time.  Thank you, Scott!!

Jesse   TCA  12-68275

prrhorseshoecurve posted:

I would hope that Scott would also do the EMD demo #822 since the carbody is so close to the E1.

You should send Scott a note.  I guess it is technically an E2? Still, it looks pretty close.  I had never heard of this one.

CSX Troy posted:

prrhorseshoecurve posted:

I would hope that Scott would also do the EMD demo #822 since the carbody is so close to the E1.

You should send Scott a note.  I guess it is technically an E2? Still, it looks pretty close.  I had never heard of this one.

 

 

Actually it's much closer to the E6 than the E1/EA.  The roof vents, side vents and windows are E6 not E1/EA.

The "EMC # 822" was a demo for the E3. But the countersunk headlight and square body side windows is screaming E1 carbody.

Yes Scott Mann is fully aware of this Locomotive as he already reached out to me in an email. I hope this  loco does come to fruition! 

prrhorseshoecurve posted:

The "EMC # 822" was a demo for the E3. But the countersunk headlight and square body side windows is screaming E1 carbody.

Yes Scott Mann is fully aware of this Locomotive as he already reached out to me in an email. I hope this  comeloco does to fruition! 

I just sent you an email about this topic.

Badge109 posted:

prrhorseshoecurve posted:

The "EMC # 822" was a demo for the E3. But the countersunk headlight and square body side windows is screaming E1 carbody.

Yes Scott Mann is fully aware of this Locomotive as he already reached out to me in an email. I hope this  comeloco does to fruition! 

I just sent you an email about this topic.

Emailed replied! Thanks for the e-mail!

rheil posted:

PRR 5841 posted:

Is the Post-War EA set the only correct choice (Of the two being done) for the GGD Capital cars currently being offered?  

Since the Capitol Limited is the 1950's version the post war set would be the best choice.

I happened to come across a pic dated from 1953 that shows the Cap. being pulled by EA/EB #53.  Pretty nice looking train.

CSX Troy posted:

rheil posted:

PRR 5841 posted:

Is the Post-War EA set the only correct choice (Of the two being done) for the GGD Capital cars currently being offered?  

Since the Capitol Limited is the 1950's version the post war set would be the best choice.

I happened to come across a pic dated from 1953 that shows the Cap. being pulled by EA/EB #53.  Pretty nice looking train.

Original livery or modified?

Thanks

PRR 5841 posted:

CSX Troy posted:

rheil posted:

PRR 5841 posted:

Is the Post-War EA set the only correct choice (Of the two being done) for the GGD Capital cars currently being offered?  

Since the Capitol Limited is the 1950's version the post war set would be the best choice.

I happened to come across a pic dated from 1953 that shows the Cap. being pulled by EA/EB #53.  Pretty nice looking train.

Original livery or modified?

Thanks

Modified.  What Scott is calling late / postwar.

What a beautiful model. Great addition to Scott's lineup.

Hi All,

Regarding the B&O EAs, unfortunately the Golden Gate Capitol Limited 8 car set that Scott has announced (1957 version including twin unit diner and dome sleeper) were never pulled by these locomotives.   

The EAs were built beginning in 1937 and the Capitol Limited was the B&Os premier train so the EAs would have been demoted to secondary service long before this version of the train was in operation.  Most of the EAs were traded to EMD in 1953 and 1954.  Therefore, the correct power for the 1957 Capitol Limited would be EMD E-7s or E-8s (with the possibility of an E-6 occasionally).

One other comment.  Scott originally advertised a Royal Blue (heavyweight streamstyled) set of cars which would have definitely been pulled by the EAs, but apparently he did not get enough reservations, so he has substituted the 1957 Capitol Limited cars.

Frank McCabe posted:

One other comment.  Scott originally advertised a Royal Blue (heavyweight streamstyled) set of cars which would have definately been pulled by the EAs, but apparently he did not get enough reservations, so he has substituted the 1957 Capitol Limited cars

This is correct. There were not nearly enough reservations for The Royal Blue. The Capitol Limited is doing better but still needs more reservations.

R. Heil  Sunset Models / Golden Gate Depot

In my previous post above, I should have also mentioned that the Rockford O Scalers intend to buy one set each of the AT&SF E-1s and the B&O EAs.  

We already have a set of Golden Gate 1937 Super Chief cars to go behind the E-1s and will use our Golden Gate “generic” B&O heavyweight cars to make up a representative train for the EAs to pull.

We are definitely looking forward to these models!

Frank McCabe posted:

In my previous post above, I should have also mentioned that the Rockford O Scalers intend to buy one set each of the AT&SF E-1s and the B&O EAs.  

We already have a set of Golden Gate 1937 Super Chief cars to go behind the E-1s and will use our Golden Gate “generic” B&O heavyweight cars to make up a representative train for the EAs to pull.

We are definitely looking forward to these models!

Frank,

I look forward to the videos!

Beautiful video Erik. Even though the Key models are out of reach for most of us, I am pretty sure that the Sunset Models will be very close to the Prototypes and possibly better runners than the Key, for a fraction of the cost.

You sure know how to advertise in style, those beautiful trains.

Yves

Well my Key E1 looks and runs ok... It's too quiet tho, I don't like that.

SANTIAGOP23 posted:

 It's too quiet tho, I don't like that.

Now that's a complaint I can live with!

Rusty

Santiago,

You can always add a smoke unit and a noise generator....  to change the quiet and clean nature of your units.

Yves

On a different note, could someone elaborate on the two ATSF schemes: "As delivered" and the later "War Bonnet".

When was the War Bonnet scheme applied to these Units and was that change done across all E1-A/B consists?

Thanks

Yves

Yves posted:

On a different note, could someone elaborate on the two ATSF schemes: "As delivered" and the later "War Bonnet".

When was the War Bonnet scheme applied to these Units and was that change done across all E1-A/B consists?

Thanks

Yves

The Warbonnet originated with the E1A-B's thanks to Leyland Knickerbocker in EMC's styling section. 

As far as the differences, I believe someone mentioned the shade of red was slightly different later on.

Rusty

I can't speak to the color change (I think Doug, "laidoffsick" has some supporting information) but one of the exterior differences was that a step on each side of the pilot was added later in life, not sure when.

(edit: I just found a picture of E1 #4 with the pilot steps. The image is dated 10 May, 1941)

In the images posted above by Santaigo, you can see the pilot without steps. 

Speaking of the pilot on the above Key example, while the door is correct in that there was a coupler door on the prototype, the execution on the Key unit is hideous and hopefully Scott will take care of this with a fixed smooth face pilot. In my opinion the front face of the E units (and F units) have to look correct and these big honkin’ doors have to go. If not, it really don't matter how detailed the rest of the units are.

I do understand the concern about the Santa Fe Red, as this is also a "the" key focal point and if not correct will be a total distraction. I know Scott used the word "orange" in his write up, I would also like to be educated on the different Reds that were used.

Charlie

We think Scott nailed the AT&SF red on the recently released E-6, so we are assuming there should be no problem with the E-1s.

SANTIAGOP23 posted:

Santiago,

I have always liked your photos; well lit, proper focus, no distracting backgrounds. Keep them coming.

Charlie posted:

I can't speak to the color change (I think Doug, "laidoffsick" has some supporting information) but one of the exterior differences was that a step on each side of the pilot was added later in life, not sure when.

(edit: I just found a picture of E1 #4 with the pilot steps. The image is dated 10 May, 1941)

In the images posted above by Santaigo, you can see the pilot without steps. 

Speaking of the pilot on the above Key example, while the door is correct in that there was a coupler door on the prototype, the execution on the Key unit is hideous and hopefully Scott will take care of this with a fixed smooth face pilot. In my opinion the front face of the E units (and F units) have to look correct and these big honkin’ doors have to go. If not, it really don't matter how detailed the rest of the units are.

I do understand the concern about the Santa Fe Red, as this is also a "the" key focal point and if not correct will be a total distraction. I know Scott used the word "orange" in his write up, I would also like to be educated on the different Reds that were used.

Charlie

Wow... Maybe I should think twice before posting about my hideously executed model. Must be because Key only made a handful at a special request. High end Koean brass really sucks, I should re-think my life. 

Santiago, please don't take it the wrong way or even personal. If that is the biggest error, that is doing pretty good. However, I do stand by my opinion that the door is very distracting and poorly executed, and Scott should/will address it in his release. If it was my model, I would fix it, just as you have in he past, and that is very much appreciated.

The front end of the Santa Fe Warbonnet is critical to get correct and as Frank posted above, it can be made much better then what Key did in this case.

Every manufacture has the shoulders of the previous offering(s) to stand on to make forward progress. Hopefully Scott will find a way to meet the Key model WHILE keeping the cost down, and that is not always easy or possible to do. 

Charlie

Charlie posted:

I can't speak to the color change (I think Doug, "laidoffsick" has some supporting information) but one of the exterior differences was that a step on each side of the pilot was added later in life, not sure when.

(edit: I just found a picture of E1 #4 with the pilot steps. The image is dated 10 May, 1941)

In the images posted above by Santaigo, you can see the pilot without steps. 

Speaking of the pilot on the above Key example, while the door is correct in that there was a coupler door on the prototype, the execution on the Key unit is hideous and hopefully Scott will take care of this with a fixed smooth face pilot. In my opinion the front face of the E units (and F units) have to look correct and these big honkin’ doors have to go. If not, it really don't matter how detailed the rest of the units are.

I do understand the concern about the Santa Fe Red, as this is also a "the" key focal point and if not correct will be a total distraction. I know Scott used the word "orange" in his write up, I would also like to be educated on the different Reds that were used.

Charlie

Charlie,

Could you be more specific as to why you think the Key E1 pilot coupler doors are incorrectly done?  Too big or small, steps missing, something else?  While it looks good to me, I haven’t had a reason to think otherwise until now.  

Here are two pictures that were pulled from the WEB (Wikipedia and Pinterest). You can clearly see how subtle the coupler doors are. You can also see the steps on the top picture. 

Yves

My Key E6 is ok too... I don't like that Key uses real glass... I rather have 1" thick plastic inserts. Ugh and those awful 20 plus Japanese incandescent bulbs per unit... just gross.

SANTIAGOP23 posted:

My Key E6 is ok too... I don't like that Key uses real glass... I rather have 1" thick plastic inserts. Ugh and those awful 20 plus Japanese incandescent bulbs per unit... just gross.

Now, you are being sarcastic, Santiago. Your models are close to perfection and you know it.

Yves

Well no one called my models "hideous" before. I think I'm a very nice person, specially on the forum. But that's just disrespectful.

PRR 5841 posted:

Charlie posted:

 

Speaking of the pilot on the above Key example, while the door is correct in that there was a coupler door on the prototype, the execution on the Key unit is hideous and hopefully Scott will take care of this with a fixed smooth face pilot. In my opinion the front face of the E units (and F units) have to look correct and these big honkin’ doors have to go. If not, it really don't matter how detailed the rest of the units are.

Charlie,

Could you be more specific as to why you think the Key E1 pilot coupler doors are incorrectly done?  Too big or small, steps missing, something else?  While it looks good to me, I haven’t had a reason to think otherwise until now.  

Hey PRR 5841 and all:

First, I'm not sure how long these images will last, but I have included all information that I can find to give proper recognition/credit.

Also, since the series E1 series was a work in progress, I am limiting our discussion to only the #2 model. Clearly, you can find other images of the later models online that support a different prototype. However, the E1 #2 was the landmark model as shown in Santaigo's images.

The first image, below, was a colorized version that appeared on the cover of the 2005 Classic Trains Special Edition #3,  "Streamliner Pioneers". Kalmbach Publishing. The image is from Hagley Museum & Library Collection, colorized by Mr. Tom Denneman.

The coupler pocket doors are easily seen, but not as distracting as on the model. In my opinion, this is the Classic Warbonnet shot and thus, the face/nose is visually uninterrupted, unlike on the model. The point I was making earlier is that this is an easy fix for the manufacture or someone with the modeling skills of Santaigo. The steps (missing from this photo) but will be added later on the prototype, would show up on the bottom of the pilot, one step on each side. From the front, it will almost look like a set of very small wings.

In the next image, published in the 4th Quarter 2018 of the "The Warbonnet" the Official Publication of the Santa Fe railway Historical & Modeling Society. Page 6. Photographer Robert Yarnall Richie.

Again, you can see the coupler pocket door, but it shows little more than an outline. The other difference you can see here are the correct pilot contour. This is not something that can be easily fixed on the model so I didi not bring it up earlier and, I'm my opinion, does not distract from the "look" of the nose the way the doors do on the model. 

Looking back at the images a bit more carefully, you can see some other small differences, again, nothing that can't be fixed or more importantly, does not distract from the look of the prototype. (Horn, windshield wipers and cab grab rails should be silver (unpainted) not red.) The headlight did not have a bezel, but honestly, it does not take away from the "look" and I'm not sure how or if I would fix this.

Lastly, before this gets out of hand. I stand by what I posted earlier, but it seems the some of the follow-up responses make it sound like I called into question Santaigo's modeling skills or some other personal attack and that is not what I meant or posted and to imply otherwise is not cool. My comments are directly related to the Key model with the hope that Scott can build on this effort to provide another offering of this fantastic, historical locomotive.

Adding to this perspective, Scott has previously stated he does not make "perfect" models, nobody does. All of our toys are a set of compromises that we as a buyer, either accept or refuse by buying or not buying.

Charlie

SANTIAGOP23 posted:

Well no one called my models "hideous" before. I think I'm a very nice person, specially on the forum. But that's just disrespectful.

Santiago, 

What is being articulated by some is that the model doors aren’t as subtle as the prototype.  Based on the above photos that statement is TRUE though I would have chosen a different way to express it.  No doubt Dave D. and Gary S. debated over how to do the doors correctly while still enabling a scale working coupler for those who would want it.  If they had chosen to include an extra closed pilot like Scott M. did with his early E units, the added cost probably would have been prohibitive.  What you now have is the best of both worlds with only a small sacrifice (IMO) in detailing.  There’s no personal attack here against you, just an observation that while correct, could have been worded better.  Your E1 set is BEAUTIFUL!!!   Let me now put my money where my mouth is and say publicly that I’ll buy these from you should you ever decide to sell them.  

You are respected on this forum.  

Well said Charlie, and thanks for the great photos!

He thinks it's hideous, and you apparently don't, but it's just his opinion vs yours...