How About Replacing Overhead Fluorescent Tubes with LED tubes?

Hi Rod

I have done the same, they work grade in my cold Michigan garage. My train room is in the basement.

Measure the time you really use the fluorescent lights.

Then figure how long it will take to pay off,  for the lower cost of the led lights at the lower electric cost.

It may take a lot longer than you think.

I am replacing mine with the LEDs in my garage and over the layout also.  The lights in my garage are on a bunch so I was happy to switch them out.  The layout one's will get changed over as the florescents burn out.

I've replaced a 4-bulb, 4' long florescent light fixture in my kitchen with a 22" diameter LED fixture and the LED fixture is just as bright if not brighter (I swear I could do brain surgery if there if I had to!).

I've also replaced 3 dual-bulb, round florescent light fixtures in the train room with the same LED fixtures and am very happy, but the ceiling height upstairs is lower than downstairs and I am getting some shadows.  I may add 1 more LED fixture which would cure the issue.

I was replacing the ballasts and bulbs in the florescent fixtures every couple of years and they were getting expensive, I have probably recouped my money by now, it's been a couple of years since I mad the switch.

Hi Rod,

Which manufacturer made the tubes that didn't require the ballasts and/or starters to be removed?

I have not checked in a while. Most that I had seen before only had LED drivers built-in and required the removal of the fluorescent equipment to run on 110-120v AC ( internal rewiring)

Most recent commercial jobs, I have worked, have LED fixtures.  A couple of notes. 

Heat is not a problem so the metal fixture, you are familiar with, are now plastic.  The LED's are internal on PC boards.  They don't seem to be user friendly related to repair, more of a pitch the fixture and get a new one.  

Last job, a few months ago, we needed an additional fixture and was told it was obsolete.  I checked accounting and the fixture package wasn't completely paid for.  Obsolete before the fixtures were installed.   Note that lighting is a quickly changing market. 

Most of the fixtures we installed, were two stage, with a Hi/Lo/Off control. Wiring was different, also required motion sensor(s)/no one in the room/off mood.  This  is standard energy efficient practice, Pennsylvania UCC (Universal Construction Code).

Some say that current LED technology will be quickly replaced with more efficient fixtures. 

All the fixtures came with a plastic cover, that was to be installed with the fixture and removed after final cleaning of the building was done. Dust and dirt with the new plastic fixtures appears to be a problem.  We were cautioned about using cleaning agents on the plastic fixtures.  

One of the big changes is in the recessed metal can light market. You can purchase an LED fixture that , (with some work), will fit a standard octagonal box. Again heat is not an issue,  looks very much like a semi-recessed can light fixture.  These fixtures are relatively inexpensive, compared to the metal cans, standard practice for the last 30 years. 

Quickly changing world. Most likely you will be removing old light fixtures and replacing them with new LED fixtures.  Screw in LED lamps are available.  IMO

Mike CT.

I bought the ones that need the ballast to be removed for a good reason.  At 25+ years old, my ballasts are dying left and right, so I'd have to deal with them anyway.  It only takes a few minutes to remove the ballast and replace the bulb.  I found mine on the Internet for around $8/ea, so far they're working great.

All good real world reviews guys! Thanks! I was thinking of doing this also but now after reading this, I've made the decision to go ahead. Thanks Again!

I replaced all 24 the fluorescent 32 watt tubes in my garage fixtures with the LED tubes.  I used the Philips brand which had to have  a compatible electronic ballast.  So I had to swap out the 9 or 10 ballasts that weren't compatible.  I used the 5000K tubes, it's almost like daylight in there now.   I also bought 6 of the LED (4000K) shop lights that Costco had on sale a few months ago to replace the 3 additional 40 watt fluorescent shop lights I had previously installed and put the other 3 up over my work benches.  It might take some time to recoup the cost in savings but it was well worth being able see so much better in the garage. 

Larry

Being a Ham Radio operator I can tell you the LED's interferes with a radio's ability to receive. I have read articles on Ham operators losing their receive because of the LED's in the neighborhood. It's not all frequencies, but the ones that can work world wide. It's a shame to have to give up a hobby because of that.

12 4' LED fixtures from Sams and Costco over my layout. Nice and white and i put in some CFL's to throw off a little yellow.

DennyM posted:

Being a Ham Radio operator I can tell you the LED's interferes with a radio's ability to receive.

It's not the LED's themselves, it's the way they power them.

Mike CT posted:

Most recent commercial jobs, I have worked, have LED fixtures.  A couple of notes. 

Heat is not a problem so the metal fixture, you are familiar with, are now plastic.  The LED's are internal on PC boards.  They don't seem to be user friendly related to repair, more of a pitch the fixture and get a new one.  

Last job, a few months ago, we needed an additional fixture and was told it was obsolete.  I checked accounting and the fixture package wasn't completely paid for.  Obsolete before the fixtures were installed.   Note that lighting is a quickly changing market. 

Most of the fixtures we installed, were two stage, with a Hi/Lo/Off control. Wiring was different, also required motion sensor(s)/no one in the room/off mood.  This  is standard energy efficient practice, Pennsylvania UCC (Universal Construction Code).

Some say that current LED technology will be quickly replaced with more efficient fixtures. 

All the fixtures came with a plastic cover, that was to be installed with the fixture and removed after final cleaning of the building was done. Dust and dirt with the new plastic fixtures appears to be a problem.  We were cautioned about using cleaning agents on the plastic fixtures.  

One of the big changes is in the recessed metal can light market. You can purchase an LED fixture that , (with some work), will fit a standard octagonal box. Again heat is not an issue,  looks very much like a semi-recessed can light fixture.  These fixtures are relatively inexpensive, compared to the metal cans, standard practice for the last 30 years. 

Quickly changing world. Most likely you will be removing old light fixtures and replacing them with new LED fixtures.  Screw in LED lamps are available.  IMO

Mike CT.

I agree with you regarding  quickly changing world.   I replaced incandescent floods in my train room. They (the fixture) were rated the usual 60 watts but they  didn't provide enough light to my liking.  So, I replaced them with 100watt LED floods (plug and play) and installed a dimmer switch. Still using less power, generating far less heat and I bought  the lamps on line at a decent price.  No muss, no fuss.  I'm satisfied.

I just replaced the incandescent cans (R30 bulbs) in my family room with LED down lights. My wife and I like the quality of the light. We are having some remodeling done and the contractor plans on using more of them, and is recommending LED lighting for our garage (We currently have fluorescent with high output ballasts). 
Do I need to be concerned about radio interference with my AM/FM radio?

As for the LED tubes that can replace 40 watt fluorescent tubes in starter-less fixtures, are any of them drop-in?  

gunrunnerjohn posted:

DennyM posted:

Being a Ham Radio operator I can tell you the LED's interferes with a radio's ability to receive.

It's not the LED's themselves, it's the way they power them.

I thought so. I'm sure the ARRL (American Radio Relay League the radio version of the TCA) will take issue with it with the FCC. in the past it was BPL (Broadband Over Power Lines). it wreaked havoc with radio communications. I think they're still fighting over that.

We replaced the tubes in the kitchens of both our homes with the tubes from Costco, they work great with the original ballasts.

Brad

When simply putting them into an old fixture with a ballast - which ballast is compatible?  T-8 or T-12?

Alan

Alan,

You have to do some research. Many need a fairly recent electronic ballast. Not all ballasts or even all electronic ballasts are compatible with some of the tubes.

Instead of messing with ballast compatibility, I'm thinking I might just go with new LED fixtures and upgrade all my lighting. 

Jim 

Interesting thread topic. We have changed all the upstairs lights to LED bulbs, but still have CFLs and 4' fluorescents in the basement. I have the 100w LED bulbs to replace all the CFLs as they fail, but I know nothing about the 4' LEDs and I have a ton of the 4' fluorescents to replace at some point down the road.

It's child's play to simply rip out the ballast and use the plain 110V tubes.  The only gotcha is that you need the non-shunting holders for the plain tubes.  The bonus is the plain tubes are typically the cheapest.

Those of you that like "How To Videos" - Check out these videos.

There is a huge difference between shunted and non-shunted T8 and T12 sockets, using the wrong type can end with disastrous results. Don't worry, with our video guide we explain the difference between the two and how to be be sure you are using the correct one for your lighting application.

Learn how easy it is to change your old T8 or T12 fluorescent light fixture to a long lasting modern LED T8 lighting fixture with our easy to use T8 LED retrofit kit and this guide. Kit includes T8 LED lamps, non-shunted sockets (1226SW) / tombstones, wire for the sockets / tombstones/ warning label and wire connector. Also see our "Plug and Play" LED retrofits, they do not require any wiring, just put them in!

Gary

Thanks, Gary. 

Jim

Last year i replaced all of my fluorescent tubes in the basement        

 with 4' t-8 led tubes,all i had to do was cut the wires from the ballast & just leave it in there,no need to take them out,the led's that i bought do not need any ballast, the one's i got were single ended power,meaning that the positive & neutral both came in on the same end,the tombstones on  the other end are used just to hold the bulbs in place,there is no power at all on that end,mine came with 2 non shunted tombstones,you can get them with double ended power,i preferred the single ended ones,plus you can get either clear,or frosted bulbs,at the time igot them they were only available on Amazon,the brand was HYPERIKON ,at the time i bought them i paid about $17.00 each,now i see they are about $11.00 each.i like them because they will last way longer than the other bulbs,plus these have a plastic cover,instead of glass i bought the 5000k bulbs also the customer service from the co.was terrific,if you have any questions or need any more tombstones they will send them to you for free they were great to deal with,but as totrainyard said about payback time in my case i will have to live to beat at least 120 to get my money back,but i am not sorry i did it, it was a big improvement from what i had before.

ajzend posted:

When simply putting them into an old fixture with a ballast - which ballast is compatible?  T-8 or T-12?

Alan

Wow, lots of good comments here. The tubes I have used so far were bought at Costco. I did not keep any paperwork, but I recall the name was something like LUX. They come in pairs in a green box, and it says on the box they are designed to replace fluorescent tubes with NO rewiring necessary. They have worked in every fixture I have tried them in so far including a couple of very old 4 tube ones. The only ones they have not worked in are the NEWEST fixtures I have, which are designed for F34T12 34 watt tubes. Go Figure! For these I had to use tubes designed for 110 VAC and remove the ballasts.

Based on my experience, 34 watt fluorescent tubes simply do not throw enough light to make them worthwhile. I would never install 34 watt fixtures again!

Rod

I switched half of the fluorescent light fixtures to LED from Philips, 4300k???. I had to remove the ballast and put a sticker on the fixture. I also put a label I made on the other side just in case. I have three fluorescent left, two in a storage area, and one high in the peak of the garage; I have left over bulbs from the change overs, plan to use them up before changing the rest.

Fluorescent bulbs give off a strong signal at a higher frequency (green-blue?) that can damage plastic over time.

Jim Policastro posted:

Alan,

You have to do some research. Many need a fairly recent electronic ballast. Not all ballasts or even all electronic ballasts are compatible with some of the tubes.

Instead of messing with ballast compatibility, I'm thinking I might just go with new LED fixtures and upgrade all my lighting. 

Jim 

I have been  working a couple of Habitat for Humanity jobs lately.  All the light fixtures installed on these jobs, either new, or a remodel are LED or have LED adapted screw in bulbs.   As I noted before, does not seem to be any repair mode, other than pitch and buy new. 

At one time a good estimate of total wattage of a fluoresent fixture was lamp wattage  plus 25% for the ballast inefficiency.  Electronic ballast and a reduction to 34 watt tubes, then 30 watt T8 tubes improved fixture efficiency, but in most cases there was also a loss of total light output.  LED lighting is completely different.   Way less waste heat, to the point that there can be reductions in the size of A/C systems required to cool commercial spaces, more energy savings.

I went with the 2 pack from Sams for garage shop and agree that it feels like an operating room.  Funny is that WM will not take old FL bulbs, must be recycled.  However, WM has no issue with broken glass.  So somehow the bulbs fell onto my mini sledge once or twice and fit nicely into my 64 gallon garbage bin. 

All I can say about the 18W LED replacements for my T12 Fluorescent bulbs is they are MUCH brighter for half the power.  I have to get out in my Garage and replace another two sets and I'm finished out there.

I'm slowly converting the entire house to LED.  Next is the basement over the layout.  Trying to find the most inexpensive way to do it.  replace the bulbs, get the bulbs that can use the ballast, or the ones where you remove the ballast or just get new fixtures?

The cheapest bulbs I've found are the direct connect where you remove the ballast.  I did a recent search and they were $8/ea, when I bought them a few months ago, I got them for $7/ea.  So far, my "bargain" bulbs are working just fine, and are vastly superior to the tubes they replaced.  New fixtures will be far more expensive than just replacing the bulbs at $8/ea I would imagine!

I replaced my small 35 or 50 Watt floods with LED and found that the ones over the sensors for a scale speed pair of photo sensors would not see them adequately. So in those two areas, I put the 35 Watt halogen back which works.

Gentlemen,

I am reading this thread with much interest. Are these LED replacements available for the eight foot fixtures?

Ray

Yep!

Many sources, here's one from a quick search: https://www.1000bulbs.com/cate...8-foot-t8-led-tubes/

Dispose of those fluorescent tubes properly.  Major retro-fit jobs, that I have done, light fixtures (metal, usually the ballast has to be removed) and the tubes can be recycles.  Some cases at your expense.    Ask your light fixture supplier, if they will take/and recycle the old fixtures.    Trash and recycle have become a large part of the construction/remodel industry.

Mike CT 

gunrunnerjohn posted:

The cheapest bulbs I've found are the direct connect where you remove the ballast.  I did a recent search and they were $8/ea, when I bought them a few months ago, I got them for $7/ea.  So far, my "bargain" bulbs are working just fine, and are vastly superior to the tubes they replaced.  New fixtures will be far more expensive than just replacing the bulbs at $8/ea I would imagine!

Ditto that John;

In my case several of the fixtures over the layout would be very challenging to change over to LED fixtures, or even to remove the ballasts, because they are difficult to get to. So in my case the direct replacement LED tubes looks like the way to go, even if they cost a little more. Again, cost is not really a big deal since hopefully this will only happen once.

For anyone considering this approach it might be a good idea to pick up a pair of LED tubes and try them in the various fixtures just to make sure they will work without modifications.

Rod

Alan, Read my previous response , get the bulbs that don't need any ballast,it is very easy to do,besides the ballast just uses some power itself,plus it gives off heat, just cut the wires & leave the ballast in ,you don't have to worry about getting rid of them .

gunrunnerjohn posted:

The cheapest bulbs I've found are the direct connect where you remove the ballast.  I did a recent search and they were $8/ea, when I bought them a few months ago, I got them for $7/ea.  So far, my "bargain" bulbs are working just fine, and are vastly superior to the tubes they replaced.  New fixtures will be far more expensive than just replacing the bulbs at $8/ea I would imagine!

Well that's a **** good price.  Last time I looked I could only find 18 bucks a tube.

Thank you folks, one more project.

Ray

superwarp1 posted:

gunrunnerjohn posted:

The cheapest bulbs I've found are the direct connect where you remove the ballast.  I did a recent search and they were $8/ea, when I bought them a few months ago, I got them for $7/ea.  So far, my "bargain" bulbs are working just fine, and are vastly superior to the tubes they replaced.  New fixtures will be far more expensive than just replacing the bulbs at $8/ea I would imagine!

Well that's a **** good price.  Last time I looked I could only find 18 bucks a tube.

$8/ea...  https://www.1000bulbs.com/prod...53506/PLT-10018.html